GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #12

[StarEyes]

I hope he has DNA evidence. Wouldn't it be awesome if it was ran through a genealogy databases and they found a match to a relative and that could lead them to the killer? Like the Golden State Killer case...

That would be AMAZING! Whoever did this really deserves to pay for it, sooner rather than later.

 

[Deleted member 162919]

I really believe he has evidence but that evidence could be contested in a court which means it was from a family member who has been there recently before the murders. SS doesn't decide who gets charged with a crime that's the DA's job

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I just finished listening to the 2nd episode and found it very informative. I like the format of the podcast very much.
Some of my thoughts on some things discussed.
1) I cannot get behind the theory that the Dermonds were killed somewhere else and, at least Mr. Dermond, was brought back to their house. Why would you increase the risk of being seen by someone? Kidnapped in their home, killed elsewhere, then returned. What?! Don’t get it. The reasoning behind it...the house was undisturbed and Mrs. Dermond was dressed. The house was undisturbed because they were killed in the garage. The dress of the victims is discussed next.
2) I don’t understand the fixation on how each of the Dermonds were dressed. RD seemingly dressed for bed and SD fully dressed. Lots of folks, especially retired folks, go to bed at different times and get up at different times. Perhaps Mr. D went to bed early and she stayed up reading, not putting her pajamas on yet. Maybe she fell asleep there and was awaken by a noise in the garage and things progressed from there. Another possibility would be she is an early riser and he is not. She was already up and dressed before the sun rose, heard a noise, etc. I think the first scenario is more likely.
3) There has been much talk that RD was probably shot and the head being taken to ensure the the bullet wasn’t recovered for forensics. This seems farfetched to me. Why didn’t they shoot SD too then? Why brutally beat her, possibly with a hammer, when they could have shot her? Even if he was shot I doubt taking his head was an attempt to hinder forensics, but more likely a last minute decision to hype the thrill.
Just my opinions here.
I’m looking forward to episode 3.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I'm stuck trying to understand WHO THE POI IS, in this article sounds like the person they interviewed before, the dishonest woman, family member.... Long before I thought maybe the two employees but one is dead now, so who lead the PD on a wild goose chase? [

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Since that article was almost four years ago, I guess the person of interest didn't pan out.

And the man on the lawn was cleared before the last podcast by PH yet on the pc, he was still looking for him

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I know the community is private but I would love to see a photo, video (or at least a visual description of area) of the ramp where it's likely the killers entered the lake. Are there homes nearby? Is it a lighted area? I remember (last summer maybe?) digging around for internet pics of houses for sale in the area... attempting to view boat access. I posted some of the info here but I don't think it was of any value.

"Into The Case" certainly has my rusty mental wheels churning.

Look up Lawrence shoals and the dam there to see pics, I forgot the dam name, omg, no pun intended lol... some are on WS wayyy back though and that area is not private access, only the sbdv, it is wiude open spaces, a few homes up river, from here, none down at the boat launch and dam and not lighted, there is another almist connecting this launch, somebody named it recently on here, not sure if it's lit but the rest applies to it also

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

If RD was holding SD's head after or during time she was struck then it seems likely her blood and tissue would also be found within the hair in his hands. But, it seems some question whether it was SD's hair entangled in his fingers. Autopsy reports it was hers... Right? Should we question that report?

IMO I'm doubtful the medical examiner would simply "guess". Right??

Not necessarily, unless she was soaked in blood but I take this to be before the bludgeoning, attempts to save her

 

[fred&edna]

Not necessarily, unless she was soaked in blood but I take this to be before the bludgeoning, attempts to save her

If half her skull was bashed in (as reported)... I still think it's "likely" as head and scalp wounds seem to bleed a lot and quickly. But, of course that's just my un-learned opinion.

Oh, I do remember some photos of boats ramps but never was sure which one was most likely the entry point for the killers... I will go back and try to find them later this evening. Also I remember one of the docks being equipped with a camera (like a live feed)... Don't remember which one and I suppose it didn't actually "record".

Also, thanks for all your input and comments... I know you and just a handful of others have kept this thread "going" for a long time . Always appreciated by me!!

 

[StarEyes]

I love reading all your guys’ theories and ideas. It’s nice to have people to discuss it with. I’m super hyped that Levi will find solid leads for LE and give the Dermonds justice at last.

 

[wildebeest]

Levi and Tricia,

I thoroughly enjoyed listening to the second podcast. Both of you did a fantastic job. Cyril Wecht is a rock star to true crime followers, and I have always respected his work as a pathologist. And, he has a law degree, as well. I can’t think of a better person to look at this case. The thing I found most interesting was Dr. Wecht kept going back to the murder of the Dermond’s son, while buying drugs. He thought there might be a connection to the murder of the parents. Dawna Kaufman and the pastor of the Dermond’s church had additional comments and ideas to add.

Keep up the good work, you two, you are making some people very nervous.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Thank you, just like all of the rest, want to see it solved

For the record, that's my uneducated opinion haha....I had thought first that he could have been grabbing for her as it was happening, then maybe not so much blood......IDK or on the opposite side, I thinks he was hit near temple area?......but I think the hair incident possibly happened before she was bludgeoned, thinking maybe a skirmish . Just wish I knew if there was an argument or debate or if they just came to kill and they were just taking her away and he ran up on someone trying desperately to grab ahold of her, someone pulled him back as he was lunging for her is how I imagined it. Horrible to imagine too.

I have been to Lawrence shoals nearest to the dam, there was a dumpster heading OUT on the roadway IIRC, there were no surveillance cameras. dont recall for certain but dont remember street lights, might have to ride up there again, used to live 15 mins from there. I was always concerned that the dumpster is where MR D's head went. Nice little launch but i always thought, as I looked out over the lake, looking at where she may have been dumped and this is on their way out, drop a bag with his head in the dumpster and be gone. They had time to get away, no one knew where she was much less his head, but had they thought about an exit and seen dumpster, they could have traced where the trash goes too and pickup days etc. IF it wasnt checked, it's buried and gone now I guess. Or Maybe they simply left it in the lake too but it wasnt recovered when they looked for it where SD was found IIRC

Appreciate your thoughts too!

If half her skull was bashed in (as reported)... I still think it's "likely" as head and scalp wounds seem to bleed a lot and quickly. But, of course that's just my un-learned opinion.

Oh, I do remember some photos of boats ramps but never was sure which one was most likely the entry point for the killers... I will go back and try to find them later this evening. Also I remember one of the docks being equipped with a camera (like a live feed)... Don't remember which one and I suppose it didn't actually "record".

Also, thanks for all your input and comments... I know you and just a handful of others have kept this thread "going" for a long time . Always appreciated by me!!

 

[Deleted member 162919]

My theory is what they were wearing when they were killed. My belief is this happened in the morning . In my experience ( I volunteered at an assisted living place for a long time) The guys usually put on PJ's right before bed and the women are usually dressed for bed hours before they actually go to bed. This is why I assume the murders happened very early in the morning I would say between 6am and 8am my bet is the killers arrived under darkness and waited outside the house until they saw a light go on then made their move. I also believe they were dropped off by boat and the driver of the boat came back when asked or at a set time. So this makes 3 people involved at least and i'd say no more than 3 so i'm sticking with 3. the driver wouldn't want to risk being seen on the lake because people would remember seeing him when they found out a murder had happened and they could remember something like the color of the boat or the size . So anyways Mr.D wearing a robe and Mrs D being dressed tells me this was early morning. I realize I could be wrong here but all the people I've known this was the way couples were. Women typically start the day out earlier than men.

Think about it and let me know your thoughts. People you knew in this age range and how they typically rose in the morning or settled in for the night .

 

[Lawdawg99]

My theory is what they were wearing when they were killed. My belief is this happened in the morning . In my experience ( I volunteered at an assisted living place for a long time) The guys usually put on PJ's right before bed and the women are usually dressed for bed hours before they actually go to bed. This is why I assume the murders happened very early in the morning I would say between 6am and 8am my bet is the killers arrived under darkness and waited outside the house until they saw a light go on then made their move. I also believe they were dropped off by boat and the driver of the boat came back when asked or at a set time. So this makes 3 people involved at least and i'd say no more than 3 so i'm sticking with 3. the driver wouldn't want to risk being seen on the lake because people would remember seeing him when they found out a murder had happened and they could remember something like the color of the boat or the size . So anyways Mr.D wearing a robe and Mrs D being dressed tells me this was early morning. I realize I could be wrong here but all the people I've known this was the way couples were. Women typically start the day out earlier than men.

Think about it and let me know your thoughts. People you knew in this age range and how they typically rose in the morning or settled in for the night .

I agree with the murder being in the morning. IIRC they also were empty of stomach contents which would indicate 6 to 8 hours without food. It pretty much would have to be in the early morning hours.

 

[wildebeest]

I agree with the murder being in the morning. IIRC they also were empty of stomach contents which would indicate 6 to 8 hours without food. It pretty much would have to be in the early morning hours.

The fact that their stomachs were empty does suggest this happened early in the morning. It makes me think it was just before sunrise. The reason being they had to put Mrs. D’s body and Mr. D’s head in the boat. They wouldn’t take the chance of being seen. Wish we knew when Mrs D typically started her day.

IMHO

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Agreed
AND

Seemed like there was coffee, did we ever determine? According to SS comments about "looked like theyd just risen for their first cup of coffee"

Her crossword puzzle was done from the Saturday paper that gets delivered Friday afternoon.

THeir bed was unmade.

I had commented earlier after findings from the podcast their stomachs were empty, it takes 6-8 hours for complete digestion

These things and his pj's indicate early morning OH and I think but not sure, it was mentioned SD was an early riser

I have thought the same finally as time went by it had to be dawn

Watched a marathon ozarks today...One scene......the man was killed in the daytime......Marty unsure what to do with the body, Buddy says "guess we'll have to wait til dark"...........they lived there but the fact is, they hid out there all day long
OH and another scene, Ruth said "How did the cartel know where I live?!" Marty said Ruth the cartel knows where everybody lives...........so there's THAT

Just some intersting comments made me think of this case, we'd talked about the accessibility of the D's place via lake

I've said before, as I had read the FBI profile page........THE LENGTH OF TIME SPENT AT THE CRIME SCENE DEMONSTRATES HOW COMFORTABLE THE KILLERS ARE AT THE SCENE

WEll, it does appear they knew or atleast were acquainted with the D's

Could have had the garage code

Could have been told they'd be having a visitor on Saturday morning early and was expecting them.......who knows who would have told them or if/why

SO YEAH I like the idea that the guy dropped them at or before dawn and returned after dark......The cove is really open, people would have likely been outside in May, depending on who was permanent and who was part timers, droves usually start coming for lengthy stays with family and friends after, whats in may, labor day?...but, being a lake dweller for 23 years much of the year, we dont always notice a person in a boat if we are working around the yard or if inside especially but that would be very risky to pull in at daytime.......at dark if no running lights with trolling motor on, no one would have even noticed them and if they did they would have suspected they were cove fishing. Shut off the motor before you enter the opening of the cove and flip down the trolling motor and its quiet and run on battery.

Apparntly no one noticed fishermen in the cove that early morning or night or atleast hasnt been reported

My theory is what they were wearing when they were killed. My belief is this happened in the morning . In my experience ( I volunteered at an assisted living place for a long time) The guys usually put on PJ's right before bed and the women are usually dressed for bed hours before they actually go to bed. This is why I assume the murders happened very early in the morning I would say between 6am and 8am my bet is the killers arrived under darkness and waited outside the house until they saw a light go on then made their move. I also believe they were dropped off by boat and the driver of the boat came back when asked or at a set time. So this makes 3 people involved at least and i'd say no more than 3 so i'm sticking with 3. the driver wouldn't want to risk being seen on the lake because people would remember seeing him when they found out a murder had happened and they could remember something like the color of the boat or the size . So anyways Mr.D wearing a robe and Mrs D being dressed tells me this was early morning. I realize I could be wrong here but all the people I've known this was the way couples were. Women typically start the day out earlier than men.

Think about it and let me know your thoughts. People you knew in this age range and how they typically rose in the morning or settled in for the night .

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

And apparntly whoever was there thought and knew they were safe to hang all day, knowing people would be distracted with the party and attendance, KNEW The D's didnt have rides with anyone TO the party and were very familiar with the home and location to hang out there all day. Read the FBI profiles.......This leads me to believe it was not cartel, maybe not even someone they worked with in the past........but someone they knew well and were comfortable in the home or atleast the neighborhood and area of GW..........but nothing is set in stone and especially not this case

 

[fred&edna]

I was googling Lawrence Shoals and came upon a website (re: bow hunting) and back in 2010 someone posted directions stating there was a store located at Long Shoals Rd and Hwy 16. Did this store exist when the Dermond murders took place? If so, could they have had a security camera? Is there an open-24-hr campsite near the ramp?

And is there a parking and/or ramp fee? If so, how does a visitor pay?

Sorry, maybe all this was thoroughly discussed long ago and I just can't remember.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I was googling Lawrence Shoals and came upon a website (re: bow hunting) and back in 2010 someone posted directions stating there was a store located at Long Shoals Rd and Hwy 16. Did this store exist when the Dermond murders took place? If so, could they have had a security camera? Is there an open-24-hr campsite near the ramp?

And is there a parking and/or ramp fee? If so, how does a visitor pay?

Sorry, maybe all this was thoroughly discussed long ago and I just can't remember.

THere is a store, it's old IIRC, not sure about camera's surely inside atleast.....Dont know how busy it stays,I've been in the daytime, only patron at the time, lakeside sbdv behind it down loong stretch of country road, IIRC it was behind it

16 is dark, no homes on it........would they have a need to stop THERE? It woud be nice to think there was video and atleast some faces were captured Fri and Sat night. As cautious as this was, I'd guess they did what needed b4 getting to the D's if from out of town. IF in town, they could shop ANYwhere or if contractors, had some cinder blocks.

But the campground or park visits anyway, some of it I THINK was honor system, dropping cash in a box.

THat Eagle Shoals thing is that the campground? anyone? I didnt frequent there but have been there

I'll see if I can find a link

 

[Deleted member 162919]

found this a few years ago and it's similar to what happened to the D's

http://wavenewspapers.com/inglewood-homicide-baffles-investigators/

 

[kirkassoc]

I keep coming back to what was actually gained as a result of these gruesome murders? If they had both been shot and left at the home and there had been a robbery, we wouldn't be here asking these kinds of questions. It's the details that read like an Agatha Christie novel and what appears to be in depth premeditation that went into carrying it out that, for me, makes this crime like no other. MOO.