CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #6

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Tortoise said:
I haven't seen anywhere that Joey gave Chase a cheque for $200 at lunch on the 4th. I think this may be getting confused with the cheque he gave him on 2nd when McGyver was at the house, which was for $100 (see my post #1082 above) but commonly mistaken to be a cheque for $200.
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OK, thanks. You are probably right.

HOWEVER, if he gave him a check on the 2nd, why do so if he had already given CM permission to create his own checks and sign them? That started on the 1st and 2nd.
 
Tortoise said:
One discrepancy I have noted is the handwritten cheque Joey gave Merritt on Feb 2nd. I've seen it stated (possibly from the prelim hearing) that Joey gave him a cheque for $200, he cashed $100 of it and deposited $100 in a new account. This isn't true. Joey gave him a cheque for $100.

View attachment 169214
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I noticed that too. And I have some questions about why he opened that account, at the same bank that Joey banks with, on Feb 2nd. He used his other bank account after this IIRC, so why would it be necessary to open another account where Joey banks? Unless something was changing?
 
travelbug said:
BBM
It troubles me greatly that the emphasis of this thread is "CM is guilty, go ahead and try to prove him innocent". I am aware that not all posters are familiar with the USA jury trial system, but I believe it needs to be stated once again, IN A COURT OF LAW THE DEFENDANT IS CONSIDERED INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. Those of us who are questioning the evidence and analyzing the facts deserve to be treated respectfully (instead of simply being described as "nerdish"). I have spent the past 51 years involved with CA Govt., Courts, Politics, criminal appeals, etc. I don't have a horse in this race, but my experience within those arenas has taught me to question everything. I don't know who is responsible for the "murder" of this precious family, but I do hold the state responsible for PROVING guilt BARD.

For what it's worth, my opinion of why the State seems so unprepared is that they have not been able to prove guilt (BARD) to their own satisfaction. SBSO rushed to arrest CM when they did for political reasons. It never occurred to them the SDS had been so inept at investigating the disappearance and gathering conclusive evidence. For those who are convinced I think DK did it, you are wrong. I do not believe either DK or CM brutally murdered a beautiful family they had been close to. I have thoughts about others, several have never even been mentioned on this thread, who may have wanted the family to disappear.

I do know that just yesterday PM stated that there was no proof that Joey made it back to the Avocado house after his lunch meeting. He is 100% certain of that, so how does that fit with the entire family being killed in that location?

JMHO
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JMO but as you said "IN A COURT OF LAW THE DEFENDANT IS CONSIDERED INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY." A websleuth's thread is not a court of law, and I think it's okay for people to have their own opinion/feelings on a suspect's guilt/innocence.
 
missy1974 said:
I don't know how to expain that to you LOL i do it all the time accidently on my phone LOL but I have done it to look up a product, screenshot it, and text it to my daughter or someone else ... to say "this is what I want" People also screenshot conversations all the time on their phones.
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But HOW would Chase have that image of Joeys CONTACTS account on his phone to take a ss of?
 
MsRyber said:
The phones. He had a small window to do this sort of thing, because there would be no further outgoing texts from either phone, from Joey to Chase, Chase to Joey, Joey to Summer, Summer to Joey, etc. No phone calls from either.

He couldn't "make" the phones do things simultaneously to pretend they were alive.

The phones tell a lot. Chase didn't call Joey, text him, call Summer, leave voice messages wondering where they were. After the 4th, he didn't act like any sort of concerned friend. Considering when they were reported missing, why wouldn't Chase keep calling, messaging, emailing, etc? This was his best friend, remember? No phone calls to him? No repeated voice messages? No notes on the door? No calls to other people involved in EIP? He knew they were gone, imo.
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He did call him. The time of those calls indicate that he left messages. SOMEONE deleted all Joey's messages, when SDSO got the voicemails, they were from around the time he was reported missing. He did go to his mom's, Susan's. More than anyone else did.
 
mrjitty said: ↑
While I am all for discussing theories, currently I attach no seriousness to the idea that Chase was authorised to create these cheques for the following reasons

1. The obvious prima facie conclusion is these cheques are fraudulent - that natural inference holds until disturbed

2. A course of dealing in running the custom account including deleting cheques actually cashed cannot be spoken into existence by defence counsel

3. Such course of dealing must be evidenced at trial - burden is on the defence to raise it as an issue

4. Such course of dealing cannot be evidenced by experts - it must be evidenced by those with direct knowledge e.g Testimony from CM

I feel like we are going down a rabbit hole that the defendant himself will not testify to.

travelbug said:
BBM
It troubles me greatly that the emphasis of this thread is "CM is guilty, go ahead and try to prove him innocent". I am aware that not all posters are familiar with the USA jury trial system, but I believe it needs to be stated once again, IN A COURT OF LAW THE DEFENDANT IS CONSIDERED INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. Those of us who are questioning the evidence and analyzing the facts deserve to be treated respectfully (instead of simply being described as "nerdish"). I have spent the past 51 years involved with CA Govt., Courts, Politics, criminal appeals, etc. I don't have a horse in this race, but my experience within those arenas has taught me to question everything. I don't know who is responsible for the "murder" of this precious family, but I do hold the state responsible for PROVING guilt BARD.

For what it's worth, my opinion of why the State seems so unprepared is that they have not been able to prove guilt (BARD) to their own satisfaction. SBSO rushed to arrest CM when they did for political reasons. It never occurred to them the SDS had been so inept at investigating the disappearance and gathering conclusive evidence. For those who are convinced I think DK did it, you are wrong. I do not believe either DK or CM brutally murdered a beautiful family they had been close to. I have thoughts about others, several have never even been mentioned on this thread, who may have wanted the family to disappear.

I do know that just yesterday PM stated that there was no proof that Joey made it back to the Avocado house after his lunch meeting. He is 100% certain of that, so how does that fit with the entire family being killed in that location?

JMHO
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The sentence that you bolded is in the context of the previous one. It does not imply that, legally, a defendant isn't considered innocent until guilty. Kindly re-read entire text and respond to its meaning. (I don't mean to say that you are deliberately changing its meaning.)

And whereas you find that the emphasis of this thread is "CM is guilty, go ahead and try to prove him innocent", I really beg to differ. I find that most here are quite willing to entertain State's evidence that seems questionable and to evenly consider all of it. I find some excellent minds here, and am quite impressed most of the discussion for or against said evidence.

As far as who else may have wanted this family to disappear -who knows? Many people, perhaps. Many people may want me to disappear. But what does that have to do with all of the circumstantial evidence that points to Chase Merritt being responsible: Writing himself/cashing checks from Joey's account without being able to provide evidence (at least so far) that he was authorized to do so, right at the time the family went missing; his DNA found in the truck; his statements that he was the last person to see them; the bodies being buried near a place he had a connection to (and his phone pinged near shortly after the family were seen alive) etc., etc., etc.

I find the State's case quite compelling so far, FWIW.
 
katydid23 said:
OK, thanks. You are probably right.

HOWEVER, if he gave him a check on the 2nd, why do so if he had already given CM permission to create his own checks and sign them? That started on the 1st and 2nd.
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Yes, we've yet to see any proof they met on the 4th. I don't think we will get it.

And to your question - precisely! I think Chase probably went there on the 2nd to see if Joey had noticed the cheques Chase created and deleted on the 1st.

All IMO
 
missy1974 said:
I noticed that too. And I have some questions about why he opened that account, at the same bank that Joey banks with, on Feb 2nd. He used his other bank account after this IIRC, so why would it be necessary to open another account where Joey banks? Unless something was changing?
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Did Joey bank at Bank of America as well? I thought he banked at Union Bank.
 
missy1974 said:
I noticed that too. And I have some questions about why he opened that account, at the same bank that Joey banks with, on Feb 2nd. He used his other bank account after this IIRC, so why would it be necessary to open another account where Joey banks? Unless something was changing?
Click to expand...

It may have been easier for him to just cash a check instead of having to deposit and wait for it to clear to get the money if both accounts are in the same bank.
 
katydid23 said:
But HOW would Chase have that image of Joeys CONTACTS account on his phone to take a ss of?
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I'm gonna wait for the video to hear it again, because I didn't hear it all... and I don't know if it's a phone or a pc or whatever... and I know that over the years, I have read lots of different things and documents that I can no longer find. I have no idea what Patrick may have had (because he had a lot of documents)... and what he may have shown him, etc. Basically, I'm not going to jump to a conclusion because I just do not have the information. JMO It's not like Chase was a complete stranger. He was kept at arms length for a long time by people that were close to Joey.
 
Tortoise said:
Did Joey bank at Bank of America as well? I thought he banked at Union Bank.
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I will have to go back and look... but that $100 cheque was used to open a bank account at Union, wasn't it? Maybe I have it backwards?

ETA: he OPENED the account at Bank of America, so I'm wrong! LOL sorry!
 
Plo_Koon said:
JMO but as you said "IN A COURT OF LAW THE DEFENDANT IS CONSIDERED INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY." A websleuth's thread is not a court of law, and I think it's okay for people to have their own opinion/feelings on a suspect's guilt/innocence.
Click to expand...

I 100% agree, which is why I wrote that post. 56 pages into this thread and I have yet to see anyone who is carefully dissecting and examining the evidence disparage those posters who have already made up their mind about guilt vs. innocence. That, however, has not been the experience for those of us who post our interpretation of the facts. This thread has already lost a few posters who were subject to hostility. I hope they return,as the trial unfolds, but the McStay threads have been the only ones (over the past 10 years) where I have observed this to be an ongoing phenomena. imho
 
geevee said:
It may have been easier for him to just cash a check instead of having to deposit and wait for it to clear to get the money if both accounts are in the same bank.
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I think Joey banked at Union Bank and Chase opening an account at Bank of America may have been to stop Joey's bank from being able to see Chase's deposits in an internal (branch to branch) enquiry.

All IMO
 
travelbug said:
I 100% agree, which is why I wrote that post. 56 pages into this thread and I have yet to see anyone who is carefully dissecting and examining the evidence disparage those posters who have already made up their mind about guilt vs. innocence. That, however, has not been the experience for those of us who post our interpretation of the facts. This thread has already lost a few posters who were subject to hostility. I hope they return,as the trial unfolds, but the McStay threads have been the only ones (over the past 10 years) where I have observed this to be an ongoing phenomena. imho
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I have wondered if we should just open up a "discussion" thread in the McStay forum and leave this one as the "trial forum" to discuss... the trial.
 
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