Found Safe TN - SLP, 14, Madisonville, Monroe County, 13 Jan 2019 #5 *ARRESTS*

[Jim_M]

I wonder. How deep is SLP's trauma? Was she really looking at him (BR) as something more than a way out? And how long will it take her to realize that BR was really no better than RP?

Yes, there were no animals killed. But she was making video, driving in trunks, hiding in closets, and of course BR ended up raping her using his manipulative ways. That just kills me he would do all of that.

Whoa. Thought provoking about the "I won't force myself on you anymore if you're with someone else." Smart thought. She may have thought being with an unrelated adult male in a "relationship" was her way out.

I mean it is true that child victims of abuse can learn skewed coping mechanisms. Like how to use their bodies to survive.

And yeah, it's all back to degrees of evil again. I used to be a very black and white thinker when I was young. But over time I learned it's never that clear. There's almost always shades of gray.

IMO BR was a manipulative predator but quite likely a conflicted one. I actually don't think he has ever done anything this extreme before.

I get the sense that RP was unrepentant and much more evil. What he did to his own a child and for so many years.

 

[ilovechili]

I

had thought it was SP when she was younger and her sister. But someone pointed out they believe it’s the other step-daughter and his bio daughter. Still, I find it odd on a LinkedIn.

Yes, LinkedIn is for career not daughter/daddy dances isn't it? I have been on it many times, never seen such a pic on anyone's profile.

 

[gitana1]

It was the late 80s.

I think most of us do not trust the system entirely. We know too many stories about how our system fails children regularly. I’m guessing even this child, in 2019, was aware that the system has failed kids and that’s why she had no faith in it.

Well she may have told her own mother who didn't believe her. So how could she trust the system?

 

[oviedo]

Gitana, with JUST the current charges on RP, if found guilty, what would the maximum sentence be?

I am really concerned it may not be long enough.

I thought it was max 30 years for RP just on the one charge ? I will have a look tomorrow unless someone can link to it

 

[JaneEyre]

Well she may have told her own mother who didn't believe her. So how could she trust the system?

Exactly. I know we want to believe she will get all the right help and live a wonderful life, even becoming some sort of victim’s advocate. But the truth is, for most girls in this situation with that many years of ingrained abuse, no amount of “right help” is going to make her life turn out peachy. She has been able to trust no one as far as we know in her entire life. That’s a hell of a set back.

 

[gitana1]

Your reference to Elizabeth Smart and Jayme Closs having warm, supportive families for years before their experiences

Fortunately for Jamey Closs and Elizabeth Smart, they had years of warm, supportive parenting to guide and shape them and their father figures were consistent and believable before their horrors. SP had the total opposite, so I don't have real good feelings that she is going to come out of this the way we all wish she could. Because she doesn't know how true loving relationships are developed and and how they grow, she has to get over anger and fear and desparation and then learn from square one how to trust and love and believe. An enormous task for a kid.

Yes. I agree. You're right. The outcomes will probably be far different.

But there are some hopeful stories. One was a kid who was subject to years of neglect and sexual abuse before being kidnapped by a neighbor and held in an underground bunker where he raped her for a couple weeks before she was rescued.

She went on to live in foster care and was adopted. She's married now with a child or children of her own and seems to have surpassed her past.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/dungeons-katie-beers-girls-held/story?id=18222603

But indeed it's a super tough road. I'm definitely worried about the level of damage and how she can survive it. At this point it just seems insurmountable.

 

[Miya]

And then this 31 year old adult raped a 14 year old child. That's what did him in for me. This, after watching RP rape her in a video. That BR effectively forced her to video. Three strikes, he's outta there! (And we don't have any remaining strikes accounted for, yet...)

Yeah, can you imagine this? You SAW what happened to the girl, let's say you thought when you were chatting with her on the internet that she is lying to you, that it even might be a 60-year-old man messing with you and that's why you are asking for a video over and over again and sound quite cold. Because you think this whole thing is BS and this person will never send you the video anyway. But you still think "what if it is true, so just in case I'll keep talking to this person, maybe I can get a better feeling if it's true or not".

But then you get the video. Then you realize it's real, so a decent person would probably just contact LE, but yes, it's possible to think "ok, I have to get her out of there asap, she also is suicidal and then I will go to the police with her". Then yes, it is possible that she said she is so scared that she has to go back if they go to the police and she says "I first want my step-dad to be arrested". Then maybe, just maybe, you decide to hide her. Even knowing that you could or will get in trouble for it, but you want to save this girl. BUT you would never touch her, you wouldn't even feel like doing anything bad to this girl.

BUT can you imagine that he saw the video, kidnapped her and then raped her when all he should have seen was a child that went through hell all her life, you saw her being raped on video, how can you even THINK about having sex with this girl? You should be so disgusted by what was done to her that this thought shouldn't even be able to cross your mind.

And I think that's one of the reasons why he is talked about here more than the step-monster. What the step-monster did is unimaginable, no doubt about that, but this monster Rogers is the lowest of the low, he saw it WITH HIS OWN EYES and his thoughts were not "I have to help her", his thoughts were "I want to have sex with her/force her to have sex with me". Yes, to me he is just as sick in the head as the step-monster.

 

[oviedo]

Well she may have told her own mother who didn't believe her. So how could she trust the system?

I know ! Wouldn’t it be great if there was a nationwide anonymous way for abused children to report that someone would then investigate?

 

[gitana1]

Exactly. I know we want to believe she will get all the right help and live a wonderful life, even becoming some sort of victim’s advocate. But the truth is, for most girls in this situation with that many years of ingrained abuse, no amount of “right help” is going to make her life turn out peachy. She has been able to trust no one as far as we know in her entire life. That’s a hell of a set back.

I'm think of what @ilovechili said though. And it makes me think. You know this kid survived. She got out. And I wonder if there was some decision-making, some agency on her part, involved in that.

Is it possible she made the decision that to allow this man to abuse her was a way out of a lifetime of incest and rape by her father?

Certainly he was manipulative and predatory. And he is 31 and she's 14. But she survived this and I've found that the kids who do tend to have something very strong and often canny about them. Sometimes it's just their ability to remain unthreateningly passive and complaint. Sometimes it's their resilience, patience and determination. Other times it's a quick-witted ability to use what they can and affect their abusers.

Like the Katie Beers case I linked. She was 9 and discussed how she manipulated her captor.

I want to hope this kid wasn't just along for the ride and drove the bus to some degree herself. Out of the frying pan but only somewhat burnt by the fire and able to jump right out?

 

[oviedo]

I'm think of what @ilovechili said though. And it makes me think. You know this kid survived. She got out. And I wonder if there was some decision-making, some agency on her part, involved in that.

Is it possible she made the decision that to allow this man to abuse her was a way out of a lifetime of incest and rape by her father?

Certainly he was manipulative and predatory. And he is 31 and she's 14. But she survived this and I've found that the kids who do tend to have something very strong and often canny about them. Sometimes it's just their ability to remain unthreateningly passive and complaint. Sometimes it's their resilience, patience and determination. Other times it's a quick-witted ability to use what they can and affect their abusers.

Like the Katie Beers case I linked. She was 9 and discussed how she manipulated her captor.

I want to hope this kid wasn't just along for the ride and drove the bus to some degree herself. Out of the frying pan but only somewhat burnt by the fire and able to jump right out?

Yes I think she’s smarter than all the people who failed her - she assessed the situation weighed the odds considered the collateral damage and chose the best possible outcome knowing the potential consequences - I am convinced she held BR off (advances) until the package was mailed to the FBI - it’s what I want to believe for her sake JMO

 

[JaneEyre]

I wish she could get the kind of intense therapy available at Janie’s house. I have no idea what she will get in her state, but this is where we need to be throwing a lot more money in this country - into really good therapy programs for abused and neglected kids. The resources available are seriously inadequate. I wish there was a wealthy, anonymous person who would fund the best mental health care available for her.

 

[Miya]

Exactly. I know we want to believe she will get all the right help and live a wonderful life, even becoming some sort of victim’s advocate. But the truth is, for most girls in this situation with that many years of ingrained abuse, no amount of “right help” is going to make her life turn out peachy. She has been able to trust no one as far as we know in her entire life. That’s a hell of a set back.

I also think people shouldn't put any kind of "pressure" on her to become this or to become that, not only because it is a different situation if you never had a support system, if you never had a loving family and she might never really recover from it. She might not be able to do much at all in her life if she has or develops PTSD or CPTSD. We should just hope and wish that she still can have a somewhat happy life and that she will be able to find the right people, friends, at some point maybe a husband, who really care about her and help her deal with what happened to her.

I hope though that she will be able to cope with everything a lot better than I think. And it is true, she is the hero in this story.

 

[Gardener1850]

But if mailing the package was just to keep the facade up, he could have packaged it in front of her and just told her he was going to mail it. I still can’t square the two of them taking that package together and actually mailing it with him having set long-term sights on keeping her. I don’t know what the answer is, but it does not square. He could have even misdirected the package if he didn’t want it to reach the FBI.

There are many unanswered questions.

All I can think of is that sending it the way he did and allowing her to ride along in the car trunk to MO and back was a way to keep SLP trusting him and happy to some extent. She may have been begging him for 2 weeks to send the evidence or to contact her mom so her siblings would know she was alive (IIRC that was one of the videos they claimed to have made on a burner phone). But he waited 2 weeks and he purposely made it hard for the package to be traced to him. The FBI did not know who sent it. They tracked him down through emails.

In regards to why wait 2 weeks, I think he might have been waiting to see if he got caught and the fact that he had not been found in 2 weeks might have given him boldness to send in that package. BR lives in Wisconsin where Jayme Closs' kidnapper (JTP) had just been arrested. It was all over the news that JTP figured he got away with his crime when he wasn't caught in 2 weeks. And scarily, JTP was right because he held Jayme for 88 days without the FBI having any clue who he was! Jayme had to escape herself! BR would have to live under a rock to not be aware of the Closs case. BR probably thinks he is a "good" person compared to JTP because he didn't kill anyone to kidnap SLP.

Another thing, BR might be a perv himself but that doesn't mean he thinks RP should get away with raping his adoptive daughter for 12 years. BR's perversion is a different sort-- I have a feeling he acted as her peer and made her think she was his girlfriend. BR might have himself fooled into believing he was a better person than RP. They are both complete scum in my book, just of different varieties. BR didn't have any reason to not want RP arrested. If RP was arrested it is one more thing for BR to hold over SLP and remind her that he helped get RP arrested. And one less person that would be in the news pleading for SLP to return. And no chance that RP would hunt BR down himself one day if he was arrested-- remember SLP had said RP pointed a gun at someone who just came to the door? Getting RP arrested could have been part of BR's own self preservation in his mind. But at the very least he gained SLP's trust by sending that package in. I don't think it is any coincidence that the sexual activity the hospital found evidence of was thought to have happened around the same day that package was mailed.

MOO.

 

[gitana1]

Gitana, with JUST the current charges on RP, if found guilty, what would the maximum sentence be?

I am really concerned it may not be long enough.

Can someone link me to his complaint again?

 

[kkdj]

All I can think of is that sending it the way he did and allowing her to ride along in the car trunk to MO and back was a way to keep SLP trusting him and happy to some extent. She may have been begging him for 2 weeks to send the evidence or to contact her mom so her siblings would know she was alive (IIRC that was one of the videos they claimed to have made on a burner phone). But he waited 2 weeks and he purposely made it hard for the package to be traced to him. The FBI did not know who sent it. They tracked him down through emails.

In regards to why wait 2 weeks, I think he might have been waiting to see if he got caught and the fact that he had not been found in 2 weeks might have given him boldness to send in that package. BR lives in Wisconsin where Jayme Closs' kidnapper (JTP) had just been arrested. It was all over the news that JTP figured he got away with his crime when he wasn't caught in 2 weeks. And scarily, JTP was right because he held Jayme for 88 days without the FBI having any clue who he was! Jayme had to escape herself! BR would have to live under a rock to not be aware of the Closs case. BR probably thinks he is a "good" person compared to JTP because he didn't kill anyone to kidnap SLP.

Another thing, BR might be a perv himself but that doesn't mean he thinks RP should get away with raping his adoptive daughter for 12 years. BR's perversion is a different sort-- I have a feeling he acted as her peer and made her think she was his girlfriend. BR might have himself fooled into believing he was a better person than RP. They are both complete scum in my book, just of different varieties. BR didn't have any reason to not want RP arrested. If RP was arrested it is one more thing for BR to hold over SLP and remind her that he helped get RP arrested. And one less person that would be in the news pleading for SLP to return. And no chance that RP would hunt BR down himself one day if he was arrested-- remember SLP had said RP pointed a gun at someone who just came to the door? Getting RP arrested could have been part of BR's own self preservation in his mind. But at the very least he gained SLP's trust by sending that package in. I don't think it is any coincidence that the sexual activity the hospital found evidence of was thought to have happened around the same day that package was mailed.

MOO.

BBM
Great post! One thing tho.....I do not think BR waited two weeks to SA SLP. I think it happened the first night he got her to his mother's home. I think that was his whole intent from the get go. I also think she was probably confused about this happening but didn't know how to refuse him.....after all he "rescued" her. jmo

 

[Miya]

BBM
Great post! One thing tho.....I do not think BR waited two weeks to SA SLP. I think it happened the first night he got her to his mother's home. I think that was his whole intent from the get go. I also think she was probably confused about this happening but didn't know how to refuse him.....after all he "rescued" her. jmo

I also don't believe he waited. They found injuries from 3 - 5 days ago, older ones probably had already healed if he assaulted her before that.

It just makes me sick that they found injuries, rape doesn't always leave the victim with injuries, rapes don't even have to include violence (don't ask me how I know that, plus someone in this thread posted an article about that and how rape victims in a lot of cases are confused and don't even know if what happened to them was rape, and one reason for that is because it doesn't always include violence and we have this "image" in our heads that rape is always very violent and/or includes weapons being used and mostly happens in dark alleys committed by strangers - when this is actually quite rare). So hearing about injuries makes me think there was violence to a certain extent at least and/or she fought back. What a nightmare.

 

[Gardener1850]

BBM
Great post! One thing tho.....I do not think BR waited two weeks to SA SLP. I think it happened the first night he got her to his mother's home. I think that was his whole intent from the get go. I also think she was probably confused about this happening but didn't know how to refuse him.....after all he "rescued" her. jmo

Oh, yeah that is totally possible. I didn't mean to make it sound like I thought he waited until mailing the package. Just that it was likely one more thing he did to manipulate her. And let's not forget that there was evidence of injuries on her after that encounter. I don't think he waited 2 weeks, but using things like his agreeing to mail the package might have been part of his brainwashing of her to keep her compliant. I completely agree that he manipulated her and confused her from the start. I hope since she was not with BR for very long that any brainwashing he did has already been undone by counseling (enough that she will realize what he did and testify against him at least) but she has a long road ahead of her to heal from everything she has endured in her life.

MOO.

 

[Miya]

It could have even been "if you are nice to me I will mail the package tomorrow" for 2 weeks. I hope not.

There is also the "trauma bond". It is quite likely that she had that with her step-monster and if you were in a situation like that it forms a lot easier and faster if you already had it with someone else. So she could have that with the BR and that is not always easy to break. Plus, this bond gets stronger with every abuse. That's one reason why abused women stay or go back to their abusers. And will even claim that it's not that bad or that it's their own fault, etc. It's a bit like the Stockholm syndrome.

 

[shorty42404]

sigh...

Bleh.

Praying for SP and her siblings

Rest well sleuthin’ folks...

 

[gitana1]

All I can think of is that sending it the way he did and allowing her to ride along in the car trunk to MO and back was a way to keep SLP trusting him and happy to some extent. She may have been begging him for 2 weeks to send the evidence or to contact her mom so her siblings would know she was alive (IIRC that was one of the videos they claimed to have made on a burner phone). But he waited 2 weeks and he purposely made it hard for the package to be traced to him. The FBI did not know who sent it. They tracked him down through emails.

In regards to why wait 2 weeks, I think he might have been waiting to see if he got caught and the fact that he had not been found in 2 weeks might have given him boldness to send in that package. BR lives in Wisconsin where Jayme Closs' kidnapper (JTP) had just been arrested. It was all over the news that JTP figured he got away with his crime when he wasn't caught in 2 weeks. And scarily, JTP was right because he held Jayme for 88 days without the FBI having any clue who he was! Jayme had to escape herself! BR would have to live under a rock to not be aware of the Closs case. BR probably thinks he is a "good" person compared to JTP because he didn't kill anyone to kidnap SLP.

Another thing, BR might be a perv himself but that doesn't mean he thinks RP should get away with raping his adoptive daughter for 12 years. BR's perversion is a different sort-- I have a feeling he acted as her peer and made her think she was his girlfriend. BR might have himself fooled into believing he was a better person than RP. They are both complete scum in my book, just of different varieties. BR didn't have any reason to not want RP arrested. If RP was arrested it is one more thing for BR to hold over SLP and remind her that he helped get RP arrested. And one less person that would be in the news pleading for SLP to return. And no chance that RP would hunt BR down himself one day if he was arrested-- remember SLP had said RP pointed a gun at someone who just came to the door? Getting RP arrested could have been part of BR's own self preservation in his mind. But at the very least he gained SLP's trust by sending that package in. I don't think it is any coincidence that the sexual activity the hospital found evidence of was thought to have happened around the same day that package was mailed.

MOO.

Excellent post.