Leslie Van Houten up for parole again

[Tuffgong]

Why do you say that?

Most Manson scholars and biographers have held he was way off on the motive angle. I love Bugliosi and that book is great. But it is more an account of the trial and the steps taken to convict. The whole "Helter Skelter" motive was slapped together by Vince because he knew the jury would ask why and he didn't really know. I think Guinn gets to the real reason in his book and the more practical one, which is all about a record deal and a drug deal.

 

[RANCH]

Most Manson scholars and biographers have held he was way off on the motive angle. I love Bugliosi and that book is great. But it is more an account of the trial and the steps taken to convict. The whole "Helter Skelter" motive was slapped together by Vince because he knew the jury would ask why and he didn't really know. I think Guinn gets to the real reason in his book and the more practical one, which is all about a record deal and a drug deal.

The LaBianca's were killed because of a record or drug deal? I don't recall any evidence that supports that idea. JMO

 

[Tuffgong]

The LaBianca's were killed because of a record or drug deal? I don't recall any evidence that supports that idea. JMO

You took that out of context. Bugliosi stated that the killings in general were part of this race war Manson was trying to start, one that was communicated to him on the White Album. The LaBiancas were complete strangers and not specifically targeted, nor was Tate. They went to Tate's because Tex knew the layout and Melcher used to live there. Melcher was the one that Manson hated the most, because he reneged on the record deal that Charlie believed he was promised. Manson also believed that Lotsapoppa was connected to the Panthers and that the Panthers were going to get him and the family for the attack. It is convoluted, but this all stems from Charlie not getting a record deal and then deciding that the world had to pay. I don't think he bought into any of that helter skelter crap. He thought he had killed a Panther and they were coming for him.

 

[RANCH]

You took that out of context. Bugliosi stated that the killings in general were part of this race war Manson was trying to start, one that was communicated to him on the White Album. The LaBiancas were complete strangers and not specifically targeted, nor was Tate. They went to Tate's because Tex knew the layout and Melcher used to live there. Melcher was the one that Manson hated the most, because he reneged on the record deal that Charlie believed he was promised. Manson also believed that Lotsapoppa was connected to the Panthers and that the Panthers were going to get him and the family for the attack. It is convoluted, but this all stems from Charlie not getting a record deal and then deciding that the world had to pay. I don't think he bought into any of that helter skelter crap. He thought he had killed a Panther and they were coming for him.

Sorry I misunderstood.

So the LaBianca's were killed because Charlie was mad at the world after a failing to get a record contract? Or am I misunderstanding your point again.

 

[Elainera]

For me an important question is: would Leslie have stabbed Rosemary if she had clearly still been alive? Only Leslie herself can answer this question but my guess is, she would have.

Nevertheless, she has been locked up longer than many other monsters who got paroled after serving far less time.

So I'm split in my opinion. The family of the victims should definitely be heard by the parole board and their feelings should carry weight.

jmo

 

[human]

There is a book by the 14 year old Lake girl who was with the Manson family but did not partake of any killings,

She said Helter Skelter is true and that Manson had been at the LaBianca home and that is why it was chosen.

I have not read it yet. But there is info out there about it.

 

[GordianKnot]

And can someone tell me what the point of parole boards is? Seriously, why do we have them?

Parole boards should exist for non-violent offenders only.

People convicted of violent crimes should be required to serve their full sentences w/out the possibility of parole.

JMO.

 

[GordianKnot]

There is a book by the 14 year old Lake girl who was with the Manson family but did not partake of any killings,

She said Helter Skelter is true and that Manson had been at the LaBianca home and that is why it was chosen.

I have not read it yet. But there is info out there about it.

New details on Charles Manson emerge in Family member's memoir

*Linking Newsweek article from 2017 re: Dianne Lakes' memoir, called
Member of the Family.

 

[Tuffgong]

Sorry I misunderstood.

So the LaBianca's were killed because Charlie was mad at the world after a failing to get a record contract? Or am I misunderstanding your point again.

Looks like you grasped it that time. Yes, the killings were motivated by Charlie Manson not becoming that huge music star that he felt was his destiny. When you read the accounts of how seriously he took his audition for Melcher and Wilson, you start to see how much he wanted it. When he was denied that his whole attitude and behavior changed. Various members of the family have testified to that.

 

[Tuffgong]

There is a book by the 14 year old Lake girl who was with the Manson family but did not partake of any killings,

She said Helter Skelter is true and that Manson had been at the LaBianca home and that is why it was chosen.

I have not read it yet. But there is info out there about it.

No, the family had been to a party next door before, but the choice of houses was random. Manson had been in the LaBianca house, that night. He went in first and tied them up, then went outside and instructed Tex to do what he did. He also stressed to Tex that all the girls get their hands dirty.

 

[RANCH]

Looks like you grasped it that time. Yes, the killings were motivated by Charlie Manson not becoming that huge music star that he felt was his destiny. When you read the accounts of how seriously he took his audition for Melcher and Wilson, you start to see how much he wanted it. When he was denied that his whole attitude and behavior changed. Various members of the family have testified to that.

I can agree that Charlie was upset and angry that his music career was going nowhere.

I'm not sure that fact would preclude "Helter Skelter" as being a motive for the killings. JMO

 

[GordianKnot]

No, the family had been to a party next door before, but the choice of houses was random. Manson had been in the LaBianca house, that night. He went in first and tied them up, then went outside and instructed Tex to do what he did. He also stressed to Tex that all the girls get their hands dirty.

BBM:

Hey, Tuff, this isn't directed at you at all, as I'm sure it was Crazy Charlie who referred to them as "the girls," but let's call them what they were: women.

They weren't "girls" any more than Charlie or Tex were "boys."

Referring to LVH & the other females who participated in the LaBianca murders as "girls" is a subtle way of minimizing their culpability for their actions.

LVH had reached the age of accountability. She was an adult.

JMO.

 

[Tuffgong]

BBM:

Hey, Tuff, this isn't directed at you at all, as I'm sure it was Crazy Charlie who referred to them as "the girls," but let's call them what they were: women.

They weren't "girls" any more than Charlie or Tex were "boys."

Referring to LVH & the other females who participated in the LaBianca murders as "girls" is a subtle way of minimizing their culpability for their actions.

LVH had reached the age of accountability. She was an adult.

JMO.

Semantics. I have always heard the expression, largely because they were much younger than Charlie and Charlie assumed the role of "father." Not minimizing anybody's role based on age. However, Leslie was 19, I call that a girl.

 

[GordianKnot]

Semantics. I have always heard the expression, largely because they were much younger than Charlie and Charlie assumed the role of "father." Not minimizing anybody's role based on age. However, Leslie was 19, I call that a girl.

BBM:

Fortunately, the State of California did not call her a girl.

 

[Tuffgong]

BBM:

Fortunately, the State of California did not call her a girl.

Guess it depends where you live. Wyoming considers 19 year old offenders as juveniles.

 

[GordianKnot]

Guess it depends where you live. Wyoming considers 19 year old offenders as juveniles.

Wyoming also has a law on the books making fishing with firearms illegal.
Just sayin'.

In this specific case, it depends where RL lived.

California (correctly, IMO) charged all the vicious murderers, including LVH, as adults.

 

[Tuffgong]

Wyoming also has a law on the books making fishing with firearms illegal.
Just sayin'.

In this specific case, it depends where RL lived.

California (correctly, IMO) charged all the vicious murderers, including LVH, as adults.[/QUOTE

Wyoming also has a law on the books making fishing with firearms illegal.
Just sayin'.

In this specific case, it depends where RL lived.

California (correctly, IMO) charged all the vicious murderers, including LVH, as adults.

Oh, they did, 5o plus years ago, is that what we are talking about?

 

[Tuffgong]

Wyoming also has a law on the books making fishing with firearms illegal.
Just sayin'.

In this specific case, it depends where RL lived.

California (correctly, IMO) charged all the vicious murderers, including LVH, as adults.

Uhh, yes, they did, 50 plus years ago. You are on the record.

 

[GordianKnot]

Uhh, yes, they did, 50 plus years ago. You are on the record.

Puff, that's a good point. This happened 50 + years ago.

50 + years on, LVH is still alive and kickin.'

Which, sadly, is more than can be said for RL, who has been robbed of the past 50+ years of her life....and as you just pointed out, that's a mighty long time!

 

[mickey2942]

LVH is getting older, kick her to the curb. Let her get a job, and pay her own bills, buy her own medication.

My Mom is older than LVH, and with Medicare, literally cannot afford her medications, they cost over $300 a month, which I pay.

Our prison system has a crisis of aging criminals. Who receive better health care and treatment than seniors not incarcerated.

LVH gets 3 hots and a cot for free, and has been on the system for decades. I say, throw her out, let her figure out how to manage everything on her own.