CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #7

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The original poster was claiming Joseph had the bad ratings and shady dealings which is an abominable accusation imo.

"You should have seen Joseph's ratings/complaints-- scamming the elderly etc..?"

 

[MsRyber]

To put all of this into perspective, with Chase's and even Cathy's memory. Today is February 17th, exactly 9 years ago, CM was interviewed. Can you all remember what you did on the 4th? the 5th? the 6th? the 7th? the 8th? I can't LOL And I have a kicka$$ memory.

I had to look at a calendar, even looked at text messages to see if I could recall what I was doing those evenings (which is kinda funny considering one of those days my son had a bday LOL). Not saying that Chase made stuff up, but I don't know if faulting Cathy for her memory is warranted. JMO

Of COURSE I do. I'm Canadian. The 4th was my last day of work before maternity leave. From the 12th until the 28th. I was sitting on my butt, 8.5 months pregnant, watching hockey and figure skating (among other events) on TV as any good Canadian was, since the Olympics were in Vancouver! On the 28th, it was the gold medal game. 16.6 million Canadians were watching, and 27.6 good Americans were too.

But you are entirely correct. Unless there is a significant event, it is very VERY difficult to remember anything from the past without a certain amount of hints. I'm not surprised that people don't remember much about what happened before the McStay's went missing, but their memory recall seems much better after they KNEW they were missing as it was a triggering event.

 

[mrjitty]

Are the


Is this in the UK? Because the system here works very differently from what you describe.

Evaluating credibility of witnesses follows the same broad principles.

Again this is where I prefer authored judgements because credibility findings must be articulated

Jurors are just a black box

Well he might have rented the movies to create a record for an alibi. Works both ways.

I guess you have to have an opinion who is the liar. The detective or Chase. Umm well for me its Chase. If you want to know a horse follow his track record.

This is why I tend to find testimony discussions on websleuths quite artificial

The court must assess both credibility and veracity. Not just pick at the bones.

We really went down the rabbit hole with this in the pistorius case before the SCA restored some sanity by pointing out just what a poor witness the accused was.

In any event we don't know if CM will testify but IMO the correct weight to give his statements is nil except where independently verifiable.

 

[Edmo]

@missy1974 TY for clearing up the bath mat vs towel mystery. You are excellent with testimony vs hearsay ITT. The picture DID shock me because I didn't remember a "bloody bath mat" from the little testimony I listened to about the gravesite find.

 

[mrjitty]

Right, those movies he rented could have been watched anywhere, friends, families, etc. But let's put this into context. Let's go with the notion he was watching a movie on the 12th. There is no way CJ could have misremembered the day that Joseph called. He didn't call CM on the 12th while watching a movie because all phone activity stopped on the 4th.

If you go back and look at the phone log, there's no time in recent nights before the 4th that Joseph called CM where he didn't pick up. The whole thing is a facade imo.

Agreed .

The net result is CM has no credible alibi becuase we know Jarvis was trying to call him.

He finally called her at 9.30 on approx.

They were not together

I really hope Jarvis is called

 

[asyousay]

To put all of this into perspective, with Chase's and even Cathy's memory. Today is February 17th, exactly 9 years ago, CM was interviewed. Can you all remember what you did on the 4th? the 5th? the 6th? the 7th? the 8th? I can't LOL And I have a kicka$$ memory.

I had to look at a calendar, even looked at text messages to see if I could recall what I was doing those evenings (which is kinda funny considering one of those days my son had a bday LOL). Not saying that Chase made stuff up, but I don't know if faulting Cathy for her memory is warranted. JMO

The difference is I didn’t have something major occur that day.

How often does you’re “best friend” and family vanish without a trace and not only did they vanish he had lunch with him that very day and Joey didn’t mention anything about upping and leaving for Mexico??!

 

[mrjitty]

Maybe he DID watch a "movie"....... at the Mcstay house!




Except, sometimes there are concerns about stories changing to fit the defendants alibi. In cases involving a crime with a range of when it could be committed for example.

If someone says that the crime happened on Friday, but your client was out of town on Friday. If you were to explain that the story could change to Tuesday and then you've just gotten screwed.

If someone is going to change their story I prefer it happens on the stand in front of the jury. Less time to get the story straight and polish things up.

I take the same view on informing a witness that another witness has turned against them. On the stand is best because they react angrily and tell the truth, rather than having time to kiss and make up.




Yes any evidence you intend to use in your defense case in chief has to be disclosed. However, it doesn't have to be interpreted or explained to the other side.

The state has to turn over any evidence whether they intend to use it or not. The defense can choose not to submit anything if they don't intend to use it. Defense can also withhold evidence that would only be used to impeach a witness but would otherwise be irrelevant.

So I can submit 1100 pages of phone records but not explain to the other side that this provides an alibi. They may figure it out on their own absolutely. I'm just not required to explain it.




Yeah.... I wouldn't waste the trip. I mean you can aim for Tuesday-Thursday to increase your odds I guess.

I've never met an American in favour!

David Simon wrote a lot about this issue in his homicide book.

 

[missy1974]

Of COURSE I do. I'm Canadian. The 4th was my last day of work before maternity leave. From the 12th until the 28th. I was sitting on my butt, 8.5 months pregnant, watching hockey and figure skating (among other events) on TV as any good Canadian was, since the Olympics were in Vancouver! On the 28th, it was the gold medal game. 16.6 million Canadians were watching, and 27.6 good Americans were too.

But you are entirely correct. Unless there is a significant event, it is very VERY difficult to remember anything from the past without a certain amount of hints. I'm not surprised that people don't remember much about what happened before the McStay's went missing, but their memory recall seems much better after they KNEW they were missing as it was a triggering event.

I meant in 2019!

But as a fellow Canadian, I do recall all of those events as well... I am an olympic games watcher... LOVE Hockey... and am right now watching the Scotties LOL I have a friend out East that is as crazy as I am about the olympics, we "watched" the opening ceremony together, brings a tear to my eye remembering K.d. Lang's Halleluja ;-)

 

[mrjitty]

But if horses always adhered to their record, betting wouldn't be much of a challenge. And Chase certainly has a history of theft, but blantant lies? Do we know that he lied, about anything so far? A provable lie?

Theft is a classic dishonesty offence

 

[Edmo]

Theft is a classic dishonesty offence

And a lifestyle for many people.

 

[katydid23]

People forget. And again, this is the reason that perjury is difficult to prosecute. It has to be proven that the error in testimony is a deliberate lie. Where is the PROOF that this was a lie?

Chase , himself, admitted he lied. He has said, since then that he didnt remember, but CJ told him they were watching TV and he saw the call from Joey @ 8:25, but he didnt pick it up. So from that 'memory' of CJ, he manufactured that version of the story, which he tells in 1st person, AS IF he remembered it.

THAT^^^ is a lie, if he didnt remember it, but retells it as if he did. Especially if being interviewed in a homicide investigation.

 

[katydid23]

Susan originally said that she spoke to Joey on the afternoon of the 4th. Now she says the last time she spoke to Joey was in late January. CLEARLY this discrepancy means she must have murdered the McStays.

See how silly this is?

Did Susan sit down at Joey's computer on the 4th, and write out a check in her name as payee?

 

[citygirl]

I meant in 2019!

But as a fellow Canadian, I do recall all of those events as well... I am an olympic games watcher... LOVE Hockey... and am right now watching the Scotties LOL I have a friend out East that is as crazy as I am about the olympics, we "watched" the opening ceremony together, brings a tear to my eye remembering K.d. Lang's Halleluja ;-)

I'm not a Canadian but my kids played hockey their entire life. It gets in your blood. And OT my favorite show is Schitt's Creek. Hilarious.
I hate that my memory is not what it used to be.

 

[missy1974]

The difference is I didn’t have something major occur that day.

How often does you’re “best friend” and family vanish without a trace and not only did they vanish he had lunch with him that very day and Joey didn’t mention anything about upping and leaving for Mexico??!

I did say that maybe Chase made stuff up... but faulting Cathy is maybe not warranted. This wasn't Cathy's best friend and family, she didn't have lunch with him that day. Even leaving VM's for Chase may not be out of the ordinary to her (we have only seen limited cell phone activity, and what I have seen, shows there were some issues with their phones and connections). If she knew nothing about what may have happened on the 4th, it was just another day to her. JMO

 

[mrjitty]

It has to be proven that the error in testimony is a deliberate lie.

No it doesn't

It just needs to be shown the statement is unreliable. That leaves him with no alibi

 

[missy1974]

I'm not a Canadian but my kids played hockey their entire life. It gets in your blood. And OT my favorite show is Schitt's Creek. Hilarious.
I hate that my memory is not what it used to be.

I hope I never lose my memory... my hubby, and especially my kids wish I had lost it a long time ago LOL In a former life, I used to code medical records, having a good memory made my job exceptionally easy!

I have a cousin that plays in the NHL... it is definitely in my blood! Don't need to be Canadian to love it Schitt's Creek is awesome ;-)

 

[mrjitty]

I did say that maybe Chase made stuff up... but faulting Cathy is maybe not warranted. This wasn't Cathy's best friend and family, she didn't have lunch with him that day. Even leaving VM's for Chase may not be out of the ordinary to her (we have only seen limited cell phone activity, and what I have seen, shows there were some issues with their phones and connections). If she knew nothing about what may have happened on the 4th, it was just another day to her. JMO

It will be so fascinating if she testifies

 

[asyousay]

I did say that maybe Chase made stuff up... but faulting Cathy is maybe not warranted. This wasn't Cathy's best friend and family, she didn't have lunch with him that day. Even leaving VM's for Chase may not be out of the ordinary to her (we have only seen limited cell phone activity, and what I have seen, shows there were some issues with their phones and connections). If she knew nothing about what may have happened on the 4th, it was just another day to her. JMO

She would of know within a week of the 4th the Family had gone missing and so why wouldn’t she remembered that Chase had his phone off for multiple hours and was unaccounted for as well during that time period. We are talking days where Chase would of been acting off and not answering his phone and so on.

That would of stood out like a sore thumb.


IMO

 

[Mica]

Delete

 

[missy1974]

Did Susan sit down at Joey's computer on the 4th, and write out a check in her name as payee?

So if it's a triggering event, and it's the reason why Chase should recall what he did that night, why can't the same be said for his family?