MO MO - St Louis, BlkFem 8-11, 54UFMO, in abandoned bldg, Feb'83

[Whatever-X-Remains]

Well potentially it could be her.

She was from Chicago, and our JD was from St Louis. So not that far away.

Kelly was 6 and went missing in 1980, she was 3'0, is that tall for a 6 year old?

JD was
Estimated Age: 8-11 years old
Race: Black
Gender: Female
Height: 4'10" to 5'6"
Weight: 61-70 lbs.
Hair Color: Unknown
Eye Color: Unknown

She was considered tall for her age, and I have seen the photos. She was tall and skinny. She was well nourished prior to her death. So she can't have been captured for a long time. No signs of prior abuse. SO somehow I doubt JD was held captive for a long time, I don't think she's Kelly. I don't think she's in namus at all.

Most likely she's either recently came to St Louis to live with relatives cause her mother died OR she was living in a Orphanage prior to this where she was sent to a family of caretakers that did this to her. The person that killed her didn't want her to be identified at any cost because he would easily be associated with her, that's why her head was removed PM.

Look for orphanages or group homes for children in the Chicago area (somehow I feel like she's from there cause it was rough in the 80's) and try to find list of kids that were removed or given to caretakers around that time. Remember back in 1983, diffrent states didn't cooperate like today. That's how Ted Bundy escaped from jail on the west side and went to Florida got arrested and nobody made that connection!

Another chance would be if her mother died or was a murder victim around that time and relatives took care of her or perhaps the killer took her child. But I feel like the latter would've made bigger news. If her mother died (not murdered) it's likely she was given to relatives just weeks before this and she moved to St Louis, where she knew nobody. She was around 8-11 so she did go to school somewhere, perhaps some grown woman would be wondering whatever happened to her classmate that moved to St Louis back in 1983 is today? That's what happened to Tammy Alexander.

Isotopic evidence indicates STL JD was from one of several southern states at least the majority of her life. I believe she is not likely from STL or Chicago. If Vernon is our killer he travelled across at least 35 states. She could be from anywhere.

 

[Moonwalker9]

Initially they said she's from the south but additional analysis said she could also be from the Midwest. Don't know why they couldn't narrow it down. It would make things easier.

 

[TmmEye]

Initially they said she's from the south but additional analysis said she could also be from the Midwest. Don't know why they couldn't narrow it down. It would make things easier.

I doubt these isotopes are accurate, sadly. Recent identifications show the isotopes were usually WRONG.

 

[Onfortuneswheel]

I'm not sure I agree that no one could stumble on the location. Anybody who has lived in the poor part of a city--any city--knows that there are going to be empty buildings and deserted basements. All he'd have to do is poke around until he found an unlocked door. He could have scouted it out ahead of time.

The part of the city she was found in isn't close to any highways and it is north of Delmar. I'd be shocked if the killer wasn't a local.

 

[Whatever-X-Remains]

Initially they said she's from the south but additional analysis said she could also be from the Midwest. Don't know why they couldn't narrow it down. It would make things easier.

I didn’t realize they later determined she was from the Midwest. Can you point me toward an article or some documentation that states this?

 

[carbuff]

The part of the city she was found in isn't close to any highways and it is north of Delmar. I'd be shocked if the killer wasn't a local.

I'm thinking semi-local myself. There are usually lots of in-between types of people in most areas. Besides transients and homeless people, there are people who are there for a few days or a few weeks, or who come through every few months visiting relatives, working construction, making deliveries, that sort of thing.

 

[Laughing]

I didn’t realize they later determined she was from the Midwest. Can you point me toward an article or some documentation that states this?

IDK how you feel about Wikipedia:

St. Louis Jane Doe - Wikipedia

scroll down to 2013 Exhumation for a bit about the isotope testing & results.

 

[Whatever-X-Remains]

IDK how you feel about Wikipedia:

St. Louis Jane Doe - Wikipedia

scroll down to 2013 Exhumation for a bit about the isotope testing & results.

Thanks! Wikipedia is at least a good resource for source. But it’s from Namus. I wonder if this is a mistake or if there are other data available. I haven’t seen an article where the locations were revised, so what happened? I need to look into this. Between namus and the original article from 2014 on isotopic analysis shows she is possibly from anywhere.

 

[carbuff]

Yeah, isotopes don't have a great track record so far.

 

[Roselvr]

Are we positively sure she's even black? Decomposition could've changed her skin tone.

Shes African American. There's photos of her where she was dumped. She dudnt start decomposing.

Pics of her skin tone have been posted in this thread

 

[AlwaysCoffee]

I also don't believe she was anything other than Black. A lot of African American folks have paler skin on their palms, and this is consistent with what we can see in the crime scene. If the dark color was from decomposition, the palms would have started to darken, too.

 

[aThousandYearsWide]

I wonder if the head removal was due to her having a huge identifier like a large mole, scar, or deformity that could easily ID her. Could she have had mild down syndrome, a cleft palette, dysplasia, or another identifiable birth defect?

The decapitation doesn't make sense to me so that's why I'm coming to this conclusion. Usually, in cases I've seen with dismemberment, the killer usually dismembers completely for concealing the body, or cuts the hands off too to avoid fingerprint Identification; however, she was fairly young so they likely weren't worried about fingerprints. With the IDing of mother and child long time UID's, Bobby Whitt and Myong Cho, I wonder if she had a similar situation. I wonder if her mother is a UID as well.

The decapitation reminds me of Adam Walsh's murder in Florida in 1981. Crimes against children are absolutely the worst!

 

[Triss]

The decapitation reminds me of Adam Walsh's murder in Florida in 1981. Crimes against children are absolutely the worst!

Agreed.
I do believe she was decapitated to prevent her identification. Either that or the murderer wanted to hold on to her head for whatever reason. I know it sounds crazy, but then again anyone who kills a child is definitely crazy.

 

[TmmEye]

The killer may have kept the head as a trophy, or he may have even destroyed the head (like smashing the skull)

 

[Moonwalker9]

The main reason for the beheading in this particular case is to prevent identification. Obviously her fingerprints were not in any database and DNA was unheard of at the time, so beheading her was the easiest way to get away with it. By accident she was found by looters in that cellar just a few days after she was murdered and because of the cool wether in the celler she didn't decompose. Either the perp was related to her somehow or her identification would lead investigators to him so she was beheaded post mortem to hinder the investigation. This is the sole reason why she's not identified to this day.

 

[AlwaysCoffee]

I wonder if there may be any plans to use her DNA to generate an image of what she might have looked like in life, kind of like what they're doing for criminals such as John Miller who murdered an 8-year-old in 1988. Obviously, such an image can't predict things like glasses, scars, or poor dental care, but it can give us a basic face to work with.

 

[aThousandYearsWide]

I wonder if there may be any plans to use her DNA to generate an image of what she might have looked like in life, kind of like what they're doing for criminals such as John Miller who murdered an 8-year-old in 1988. Obviously, such an image can't predict things like glasses, scars, or poor dental care, but it can give us a basic face to work with.

Excellent idea Alwayscoffee! DNA Phenotyping is how we know Bobby Whitt was biracial asian instead of hispanic like originally estimated. We have his name now because of it. I think this new technology is incredible!

 

[aThousandYearsWide]

Here's the site for DNA Phenotyping: Parabon Shapshot. It explains more about how it works and has some examples of successful cases.

DNA Phenotyping - Parabon® Snapshot® DNA Analysis Service

 

[carbuff]

There are many labs besides Parabon doing the same or similar analysis. There are so many exciting advances.

 

[RookieInvestigator]

I believe doctor's are required to report certain diseases/illness to the CDC or their state Health Dept...I wonder if spina bifida falls into that category...LE could contact the CDC and the Health Depts in the southern states (listed on the isotope results) to see if they have a person similar to the UID diagnosed with the disease...