Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #87

[morf13]

Today, the Criminology podcast covered the Delphi murders. For those of us who follow the smallest details of this case, you may not learn anything new, but the podcast is very thorough in covering everything that we know about this case: the timeline; every comment LE has made; most questions we've raised about the case; possible suspects that have been investigated; rumors and how they've been debunked; etc.

It's a great one hour review of the case in detail. For those who might like to listen, here is the link:

Ep48 - The Delphi Murders Criminology podcast

Thanks for mentioning the episode. The lack of any news about the DNA was important for me to touch on in the episode

 

[StarryStarryNight]

So just one tip brings the case to a close?
How is this so? I keep reading his quote over and over.
So they have everything they need but this one tip they keep talking about?

That “one tip” they are looking for, in my opinion, is the one where someone calls in and tells them who it is, because I don’t think they have any idea and no evidence that leads them in any direction.

 

[ab01]

I think THIS ^, minus the lol.
I think we hear the “one tip” statement frequently from LE, and I am not criticizing that. Very recently we heard it in the terrible Closs case, when everyone was frantically trying to figure out where she could be and if she could possibly even still be alive. In the end it was JC herself who broke the case by bravely escaping from a perpetrator who may never have been found out. The “one tip” that could have solved that case was non-existent - there was NO tip that could have generated her discovery because this guy was totally off the radar of most everyone, except maybe some of his friends. And I have not read anything that indicates there was any suspicion on their part. All this to say I usually take the “one tip” comment with a grain of salt, and tend not to read anything further into it. I STILL have hope that there just might be one tip that could solve this for Abby and Libby and their families, but I don’t believe LE is using that statement literally. IMHO

Just to clarify.I didn’t mean lol as in it was funny, it was in response to a post that has since been deleted by a mod. So the lol doesn’t really make sense now and makes me look insensitive....

 

[heartgoesout]

Thanks for mentioning the episode. The lack of any news about the DNA was important for me to touch on in the episode

morf13, how are you an insider on the GSK and Zodiac killer??

 

[Choochoobella]

morf13, how are you an insider on the GSK and Zodiac killer??

Just in case he doesn't see the question, that post was from Mike Morford, better known as "Morf." He co-hosts the excellent podcast called Criminology with co-host Mike Ferguson.

Season 1 of the podcast did an in-depth 12 episode exploration of the Zodiac killer. Season 2 was incredibly in-depth too with 15 episodes on the Golden State Killer. As the podcast neared the end of that season, Joseph DeAngelo was arrested.

Criminology has covered a wide variety of cases since then. I recommend checking it out if you haven't listened yet. You can type in Criminology podcast and listen to it on whichever podcast platform you prefer. I always listen on Stitcher.

 

[DarkSkink]

I think that one tip may end up being the tip. Not the final nail tip so to speak. But rather that one tip that makes all the other evidence make sense....JMO

That makes sense. Likely, they have DNA but no match in any registry. They just need the name of a suspect to compare the evidence (DNA) to.

This case is also an amazing study on how many different people can resemble a suspect sketch.

 

[Jabarn]

Thanks for mentioning the episode. The lack of any news about the DNA was important for me to touch on in the episode

Just finished watching Morf’s podcast... very sensitive and informative of the timeline and evidence collected so far. The Patty’s interviewed very well and responded to some of the Internet rumors going around.

Here is the link ChooChooBella shared earlier: Ep48 - The Delphi Murders Criminology podcast

 

[dulcinea]

I have not followed this case in a very long time, so please forgive me if I am asking something you've already discussed. Do we know if DNA was recovered? If so, I would assume they ran it through all databases and received no hit or else we'd have a suspect. What I'd be curious to know is if any found DNA has been submitted to sites like 23 and Me or Ancestry. Those sites have to be goldmines for LE now when they collect DNA. Are there any legal issues with using them as a means to identify suspects?

 

[Jabarn]

I have not followed this case in a very long time, so please forgive me if I am asking something you've already discussed. Do we know if DNA was recovered? If so, I would assume they ran it through all databases and received no hit or else we'd have a suspect. What I'd be curious to know is if any found DNA has been submitted to sites like 23 and Me or Ancestry. Those sites have to be goldmines for LE now when they collect DNA. Are there any legal issues with using them as a means to identify suspects?

That is such a hard question to answer. It is apparent DNA was collected and fast tracked for analysis. We don’t know the source of the DNA, so it could be a random item(s) found at the crime scene, and not necessarily the DNA of BG.

If direct DNA (like from bodily fluids), it’s not been confirmed in MSM or from any of the Delphi investigative team.

Still hoping, like Kelsi German, familial DNA will be the key. Here is a link to Kelsi’s Twitter: Kelsi German (@libertyg_sister) on Twitter

 

[Steleheart]

I have not followed this case in a very long time, so please forgive me if I am asking something you've already discussed. Do we know if DNA was recovered? If so, I would assume they ran it through all databases and received no hit or else we'd have a suspect. What I'd be curious to know is if any found DNA has been submitted to sites like 23 and Me or Ancestry. Those sites have to be goldmines for LE now when they collect DNA. Are there any legal issues with using them as a means to identify suspects?

The idea really irks me. While I support LE and the efforts they make I am in charge of my own information.
I strongly reject any presumption that the Government has a right to seize that information simply because I shared it on a website, any more than the notion that they are welcome to search my car just because it is parked on a public way. The 4th amendment is clear in this regard, IMO

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. "

Just because it exists doesn't put it up for grabs.
It's not because I have anything to hide anymore than when I pull my shades Or lock my doors. It's my privacy. My DNA belongs to me. It is mine. If I choose to share results of analysis with Family or Genealogy, the Government is not named in that agreement AFAIK.
I don't even use the cloud. I got a new computer and immediately shut that thing off.
I am in control of my information. If they have probable cause for a warrant they can have my computer. Anything else is peeking through my blinds, IMO.

HaHa - Rant, I know. But the Bill of Rights, the Constitution and the Declaration of independence is sacred to me.

 

[kate2931]

For two years I have followed Abby & Libby’s story from the U.K., the girls were found the same day I lost my dad suddenly aged just 56. I can’t pinpoint exactly why the girls murders resonated with me so much (perhaps the overwhelming sense of grief and having a teen daughter myself with her new found freedom) but I think of the girls every day. I’m dumbfounded that two years later, he hasn’t faced justice for stealing the futures of two beautiful girls. I don’t have anything scientific or theory wise to add, just that the girls are thought of dalily on the other side of the Atlantic. Much love

 

[Jabarn]

The idea really irks me. While I support LE and the efforts they make I am in charge of my own information.
I strongly reject any presumption that the Government has a right to seize that information simply because I shared it on a website, any more than the notion that they are welcome to search my car just because it is parked on a public way. The 4th amendment is clear in this regard, IMO

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. "

Just because it exists doesn't put it up for grabs.
It's not because I have anything to hide anymore than when I pull my shades Or lock my doors. It's my privacy. My DNA belongs to me. It is mine. If I choose to share results of analysis with Family or Genealogy, the Government is not named in that agreement AFAIK.
I don't even use the cloud. I got a new computer and immediately shut that thing off.
I am in control of my information. If they have probable cause for a warrant they can have my computer. Anything else is peeking through my blinds, IMO.

HaHa - Rant, I know. But the Bill of Rights, the Constitution and the Declaration of independence is sacred to me.

I hear you. It’s a new science, for sure, and in the right hands, the use of this new technology will (and has) solved crimes. Fast forward a few years, and it might be legislated, and maybe court orders will need to be involved. For right now, my thinking is many of these sites where people upload their DNA for analysis have protections in place, and the Golden State Killer was caught by familial DNA on one of the open sourced ones.

I haven’t sent my DNA in to figure out my roots either, but my family members have. So in the end, I don’t guess it matters that I didn’t.

 

[JnRyan]

The idea really irks me. While I support LE and the efforts they make I am in charge of my own information.
I strongly reject any presumption that the Government has a right to seize that information simply because I shared it on a website, any more than the notion that they are welcome to search my car just because it is parked on a public way. The 4th amendment is clear in this regard, IMO

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. "

Just because it exists doesn't put it up for grabs.
It's not because I have anything to hide anymore than when I pull my shades Or lock my doors. It's my privacy. My DNA belongs to me. It is mine. If I choose to share results of analysis with Family or Genealogy, the Government is not named in that agreement AFAIK.
I don't even use the cloud. I got a new computer and immediately shut that thing off.
I am in control of my information. If they have probable cause for a warrant they can have my computer. Anything else is peeking through my blinds, IMO.

HaHa - Rant, I know. But the Bill of Rights, the Constitution and the Declaration of independence is sacred to me.

I agree with you. But I can see the argument coming from the other side. "Well, we can search trash that has been put out on the street why not DNA that the person has put out there?"

23 and Me supposedly looks for genetic markers for inherited disposition to certain health problems. So could these DNA results be covered by HIPAA? Then you mention the issue of privacy. If LE wants our DNA - ask for it or get a court order.

 

[Falling Down]

The hat bugs me. I can’t understand why they used that in the sketch. I really believe in the photos he’s wearing a baseball cap that he has squashed the bill of like a lot of guys do.

My hunch about the hat is he may have changed his appearance at the murder scene, I think he may have left a bag or pack of some sort there earlier, then went trolling for a victim or victims.

MOO

 

[Gracie55]

My hunch about the hat is he may have changed his appearance at the murder scene, I think he may have left a bag or pack of some sort there earlier, then went trolling for a victim or victims.

MOO

Maybe he had longer hair hidden in the hat, and lost the hat during whatever happened, or he chucked it and dropped his locks down to look different after the fact. Nobody is looking as hard for some dude with long hair. Moo

 

[Falling Down]

ikr
Early on I almost swore to myself that he had on a toupee of hair that had a dent in the middle. There was something about the bangs part that I was convincing myself it was just a toupee.

Then I started to agree with others that it was a soft floppy type hat with a short brim in front.

Then I wondered if it was just a cap turned backwards with the brim towards the back.

Its unfortunately not clear enough.

The backpack or whatever he has higher up on his shoulder area in the back is the same type of thing where its hard to confirm he has a backpack or not on.

And of course the infamous white thing sticking out from his coat. On that one I finally convinced myself it was special thicker police style plastic zip ties. But of course it could be just a handle of a plastic bag or a pull string from an inside jacket.

No matter what all that was it doesnt really help unless we spot a similar looking person with similar things.

This case is one that definitely drives us crazy.

I've thought the white thing could be a strap that is part of a larger tool, running down the inside of the outer shell/jacket he's wearing. The tool I've thought of is called a strap wrench, and it uses a nylon web strap. Part of my theory about this set of crimes is he pulled it out slightly when he got on the bridge so it was easy to grab, in order to put it around one of the girls' necks, in this case it would have been Abby as she was closest to him. The tool could have been used to control her, while he had a gun pointed at Libby, in fact he may have told Abby to put the strap around her neck.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81WPg5JaQdL._SL1500_.jpg

The aluminum handle could also have been used to hurt/stun a victim, and the tool could have been used to strangulate.

JMO

 

[Jabarn]

My hunch about the hat is he may have changed his appearance at the murder scene, I think he may have left a bag or pack of some sort there earlier, then went trolling for a victim or victims.

MOO

That makes sense to me. If he was hunkering down in the area for a few days (I go back to the homeless or transient theory), he may have had items important to him left in a place he planned to return. He had almost a full day before the bodies were found... it is hard to understand why a duffle bag was ever brought up in the first place, though, unless he was planning on moving on.

Thanks everyone for hanging in here. The important thing is to keep the conversation going so this case stays in the minds of the public and someone could provide the right lead.

 

[Falling Down]

One thing which irks me some about LE in this case is I don't understand why they haven't urged people to be vigilant. I don't believe he's from Delphi, IN, and that people in public parks, on trails, etc., need to be vigilant. Be aware of surroundings, report suspicious activity, and so on in such places, say within a 300-400 miles.

I've thought for some time LE are not going to solve this case, they would have solved it, already, if they had solid evidence. It's up to the public to solve it.

JMO

 

[JaneEyre]

I’ve said it before. They can sift through my DNA all they want if they’re looking for killers and rapists.

 

[carbuff]

I thought they’d seen more video than we had? They only released a teensy three word part to the public.

I was referrring to the sketch of his face, not the audio of him speaking.