CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #7

[mrjitty]

It didn't escape me that the prosecutor said in his opening 'if there was a meeting'.

In one of my scenarios I have Joey calling Chase to say he's arrived and needs to go to the bank (as he told Patrick) and suggests meeting at Chase' home. Chase has to be expecting it's going to get difficult and is probably the end of the road now. So Chase does not want to see him, he knows Joey probably now knows he stole at least one blank cheque and has probably seen the activity including the deletion on QB custom account. He doesn't know even if Joey is going to see the cheque he cashed when he goes into Union Bank to make his deposit, he imagines the worst.

Chase calls Cathy frantically and says if Joey shows up tell him you don't know where I am. He then speaks to Joey and says 'I've got a few difficulties whatever I'm stuck out at wherever at the moment, I'll meet you at ChickfilA if I get done here doing whatever. Cathy's home with the kids and she doesn't want us there' (like he got the detectives to meet him away from Cathy).

So Joey does his business at the bank and sits waiting for Chase to show up doing internet business while he's waiting. He calls him at 3 pm to say 'I'm leaving, come by the house later when you're ready, I'll call you when I get home.'

He calls Chase at 5.45 pm to say he's home. Chase turns off his phone before he heads down there, which shows me premeditation. Joey logs onto QB at about 6 pm.

I don't know if Joey would be on the internet constantly during lunch if he's discussing all this stuff about QB with Chase.

MOO

You are getting very creative!

I do think it is one of the fishier aspects of the whole affair that we can't be certain that meeting happened.

 

[Tortoise]

You are getting very creative!

I do think it is one of the fishier aspects of the whole affair that we can't be certain that meeting happened.

Well I figure he couldn't kill Joey at Rancho because Cathy was there and it was too busy in ChickfilA so that's when he decided to do it at the house and Summer and the boys would have to go too. He does seem to have made the decision when he turned off his phone - which is my interpretation of the evidence and I do understand some people wish to consider it could have been Chase having phone connectivity issues for the next 5 hours.

MOO.

 

[JMarsh]

Patrick did not hire Spring. It was Michael and, I believe, Susan.

The Spring/IR3 is a mysterious happening in this case. He was hired because of his deep, validated connections with Mexico. He went to Mexico, searching for the family, following lead after lead. He returned, empty handed, disillusioned, and angry. Ultimately, he wrote a small, but quite detailed report about Joey's and Summer's cell phones pinging off of the two towers on the old Bonsall Bridge. Both cell phones, along with Summer's purse, have never been found. Apparently, the authorities did not agree with nor deny the report. Strangely, the day after the graves were found, the IR3 website was taken down. Ultimately, James Spring was dismissed as a fraud.

Up until the disappearance of the McStays, Spring was certainly not considered to be a fraud. I have always questioned why he would have written that report at all if it was a lie. For what purpose? It didn't make any sense then, and it doesn't now.

I've been to that old, abandoned bridge. Walked over it. At that point in time, the river beneath would have been raging (as I'm sure it is right now). Can't help but have this gnawing feeling that the Bonsall Bridge has seen what we seek to know.

But, maybe that's because it's ....................... mysterious.

By the way, I read recently, somewhere down the line, that the bridge is a well-known paintballing area - obviously during dry months.

Here is the report: New cell tower info indicates that the missing McStay family was in Bonsall. | iR3: International Rescue & Recovery Resource

Thank you for clearing that up.

 

[JMarsh]

You are getting very creative!

I do think it is one of the fishier aspects of the whole affair that we can't be certain that meeting happened.

Joey's phone records do indicate that he traveled to Rancho, there is a break in calls from 1 - 3, (although his phone's internet is still generating IP addresses), then Joey's phone CDRs have him traveling back to Fallbrook and pinging at the tower he normally does when home at 4:44.

If Joey and Chase weren't meeting at Chick fil a, what were they doing?

 

[JMarsh]

Well, if you call the witness you generally need to be nice to them. It's on cross exam when you would impeach or treat as hostile, generally. Neither side would want to start out being hostile towards their own witness.

However, if she wasn't cooperative they could get her classified as hostile. I would presume they would wait until she was antagonizing the prosecutor or really hurting their case. This would also apply if the defense called her.

We really have NO idea what her position is. I would hope that she is just coming in to tell the truth, without taking a side. That is how I prefer witnesses. I just tell them to tell the truth. The defense calling you doesn't mean you are "their witness". You never know who each witness will end up helping once they are up there.

No, she can't be truly neutral... but she CAN have the goal of telling the truth and justice being served. That IS possible even when your children's father is the one on trial. I've absolutely seen it.




Forgive me if I'm remembering wrong. I know Michael was wrong about the phone call he received informing him Joey was missing. He thought it was the 9th and it was actually the 10th.

Wasn't that also the case with Susan? I swear she thought she talked to Joey on the 4th but it was actually another day? So when shown her phone records she realized that she had the day wrong?

I wish that it was easier to search for the answer but I KNOW one of you will remember for sure.




To be fair, Rader was much younger when he killed the Otero family. He was 2 months from his 29th birthday. He wasn't arrested for 31 years after that mass murder so he was an older gentleman when he was caught.

Merritt would have been 52 I believe.




I don't know how ANYONE could afford to travel and live somewhere else for 6 months. I mean that is just astronomical. All while I presume paying expenses for where you normally live! Imagine moving out of your house into another state for 6 months, while intending to return. I mean it's incomprehensible.




I did not either. I also never realized that their date of death is listed as February 4, 2010. You don't generally see that with a murder where the body isn't found for years. It's often the date that the body was recovered.

I have always preferred to use the actual date of death but understand that some people use what's on the death certificate. I wonder who made that call in this case? I probably wouldn't have been confident it was the 4th rather than the 5th or 6th. Regardless of lack of contact. Though I would want to believe it was quick.

I felt Joey's mom was authentic and credible (and devastated). Her loss is so immense. The family wants justice, I'm sure, but they don't know much more than we do. They aren't allowed to view the evidence until trial, so there are things they are seeing for the very first time.

 

[JMarsh]

Too busy and tired to follow/post much here, but this is too important to let slide: Missy, you left out so many important points, IMOO, but I will grant you the first -the starting point for great popcorn.
1. Stove
2. Cast iron skillet/pot
3. Coconut oil (Refined -doesn't taste like coconut, but makes the best popcorn. EVER.)
4. Dressed with R.E.A.L. B.U.T.T.E.R. and salt. (I said it's good, not low cal.)

So, whilst you all are furiously dissecting the evidence in this trial, I am engrossed in far more weighty matters. Now, if you want to know how to make to-die-for maple walnut ice cream....

Appreciated. Yum.

 

[Mica]

<modsnipped>

@Mica can I bother you for the link to the court portal? Please I was going to search your posts but couldn't lol

Home | Superior Court of California

Case # FVI1404194

 

[JMarsh]

Random killer(s) and mobs/gangs probably can be safely (and no doubt have been) ruled out. The modus operandi of either of them does not square with what befell the McStay family -

In what way have random killers been ruled out?

 

[Mica]

Sorry. I was mistakenly thinking you were looking for CM's bad reviews. I have never seen any bad reviews for Joey McStay's business.

I agree. In fact, I haven’t seen many reviews, if any, for Joey’s EIP considering it was an internet based company.

 

[JMarsh]

I mean in terms of his statements on the 4th and beyond.

Has anything he said ever really checked out?

e.g. he said he met with Joey for lunch but is vague about it. However there is a 2 hr gap in calls between them so I think that he at least did meet Joey somewhere.

Yes. Many things Chase has said have checked out. He said Joey gave him checks on the 4th-Chase had checks. He said he never drove the Trooper, that appears to be true given where his DNA is and where it is not. The pattern of QB activity and the fact that Joey never alerts his bank or authorities to theft, yet we know he accessed his accounts that week, would indicate that Joey was fine with Chase's check writing.

Seen in a certain light, Chase's credibility is rock solid.

 

[mrjitty]

Joey's phone records do indicate that he traveled to Rancho, there is a break in calls from 1 - 3, (although his phone's internet is still generating IP addresses), then Joey's phone CDRs have him traveling back to Fallbrook and pinging at the tower he normally does when home at 4:44.

If Joey and Chase weren't meeting at Chick fil a, what were they doing?

Well that is what I mean.

The 2 hr break in calls gives rise to an inference that they did met IMO

But was it at CFA? Why are details of the meeting so sketchy? e.g. CM said Joey paid on his credit card - but was this corroborated?

 

[mrjitty]

Yes. Many things Chase has said have checked out. He said Joey gave him checks on the 4th-Chase had checks.

Backdated from the 5th!

He said he never drove the Trooper, that appears to be true given where his DNA is and where it is not.

The pattern of QB activity and the fact that Joey never alerts his bank or authorities to theft, yet we know he accessed his accounts that week, would indicate that Joey was fine with Chase's check writing.

Seen in a certain light, Chase's credibility is rock solid.

There comes a point where it is clear you don't want to engage with the evidence.

So lets leave it here!

 

[mrjitty]

I agree. In fact, I haven’t seen many reviews, if any, for Joey’s EIP considering it was an internet based company.

Remember this was back in 2010

Also, Joey wasn't exactly doing consumer stuff.

 

[JMarsh]

Well that is what I mean.

The 2 hr break in calls gives rise to an inference that they did met IMO

But was it at CFA? Why are details of the meeting so sketchy? e.g. CM said Joey paid on his credit card - but was this corroborated?

San Diego likely got Joey's credit card records, so that info. must not be there. Did CM say that Joey paid with a card? I have to go back and listen. I forgot that part.

Even if Chase is guilty, that meeting seems like a weird thing to lie about. And the phone records appear to support this occurring. I know there is a theory out there that Joey was abducted or killed during this time, but phone records seem to debunk this.

 

[mrjitty]

Well I figure he couldn't kill Joey at Rancho because Cathy was there and it was too busy in ChickfilA so that's when he decided to do it at the house and Summer and the boys would have to go too. He does seem to have made the decision when he turned off his phone - which is my interpretation of the evidence and I do understand some people wish to consider it could have been Chase having phone connectivity issues for the next 5 hours.

MOO.

I suspect they did met, and Chase lied about everything - as usual. This is his go-to strategy

Joey didn't let it drop - and that let to the 5.30pm call and going dark

 

[missy1974]

I know the prosecution had one witness along these lines.

I suspect the evidence here is more of dishonesty and conning. I agree Chases pattern of work tends to suggest criminal intention rather than mere breach of contract

On any view he is completely untrustworthy

If you are meaning the Geis Construction witness, I disagree. That's what the prosecution was trying to show; however, I don't think they did. This was all around the time they went missing, when Dan and Chase were trying to get things done.

From my notes...

He was sent an estimate on 2/2/10 for a $12,500 fountain. He paid 50% of that on 2/19, which was $6250. He said they paid another $6250 but never showed that in any testimony, no cheque and he didn't know who it was sent to.

6250 deposit to EIP

2000 payment to CJ
4000 payment to CM
1950 payment to Walker sheetmetal

I believe they ended up picking up the fountain and getting someone else to install it. IIRC it was around the same time that Chase would have been in Saudi Arabia.

fyi ... it took me a bit to get that info straight with that testimony lol the guy said he paid 6250 twice but couldn't show where the 2nd 6250 was sent.

 

[JMarsh]

Backdated from the 5th!



The pattern of QB activity and the fact that Joey never alerts his bank or authorities to theft, yet we know he accessed his accounts that week, would indicate that Joey was fine with Chase's check writing.

Seen in a certain light, Chase's credibility is rock solid.

There comes a point where it is clear you don't want to engage with the evidence.

So lets leave it here![/QUOTE]

I cited evidence. There is a convincing argument based on evidence that Chase's DNA could be in the Trooper by way of transfer DNA. THAT is a theory based every bit as much on the evidence as any other theory about how that DNA got there.

A "backdated" check doesn't prove fraud, it just means that Chase, for whatever reason didn't change the date from the last check Joey wrote, or had some other reason. The Quickbooks check writing isn't really that important because any check Chase wrote would show up on bank records if he actually cashed it.

 

[JMarsh]

I suspect they did met, and Chase lied about everything - as usual. This is his go-to strategy

Joey didn't let it drop - and that let to the 5.30pm call and going dark

You keep stating that Chase lied, and yet you have produced no evidentiary support for this.

 

[missy1974]

Yes.

Also what I find strange in making special allowances for Chase, is that it is not hard to work out where you were, even if you make mistakes at first.

For instance you can ask me where I was on Tuesday night 10 days ago. In general, I would be at home with my family - so that is likely to be my first answer.

If you then say we have cell data putting you in the neighbouring suburb at 7pm, that is when I remember I had a teacher meeting at school.

So I agree there is potential to get my nights mixed up, but if my business partner is missing an I am being quizzed by detectives about potential murder/abduction, I can actually account for every single one of the last 10 nights if I work at it.

What I will find odd is if Chase never accounts for where he was that night because we know he was not watching movies with Jarvis.

I would like to know when he was first asked what he was doing the evening of the 4th. I have listened to his interview again, I can't find that they even asked him on the 17th in the interview that was played in the trial.

If anyone can point me to a timestamp in the interview, I would appreciate it, I would like to know if he was even asked that day and I would like to hear it in his own words.

From everything I have read, and heard, Chase has never said it was his memory, he said he couldn't remember and it was Jarvis's memory.

I've always thought that they didn't even get Chase's cell phone records until 2013/14. (remember Dugal couldn't get warrants for anything cuz they were missing) If this is the case, and if he/she was first asked 3-4 yrs later, it is ridiculous to think that anyone would remember, especially Jarvis considering it would have been a "normal" day to her.

I could possibly see Chase remembering, but this is the same guy that had to call his wife to find out what they did on "president's day" (which wasn't actually president's day! it was the 8th)

 

[missy1974]

Well that is what I mean.

The 2 hr break in calls gives rise to an inference that they did met IMO

But was it at CFA? Why are details of the meeting so sketchy? e.g. CM said Joey paid on his credit card - but was this corroborated?

LE says they verified it. So either you believe LE or not lol I to would like to see proof, which we don't have yet.