Deceased/Not Found IL - Yingying Zhang, 26, Urbana, 9 June 2017 #8 *Arrest*

[kittythehare]

No, that is not what the article you referenced stated Bavaria. Nor is it suggested anywhere in the document here http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wls/documents/2019/020719-wls-iteam-christensen-blood-handprint.pdf
where the FBI were asked to justify their already well proven evidentiary tests.. From Pg 27 of above document
Here, the blood was not identified as a small stain on the bottom of a shoe; it was identified in significantly larger areas, including handprints, in the defendant’s apartment. Some of the samples have been positively identified as blood (through confirmatory testing) with the victim’s DNA located in those same samples. Moreover, unlike in Moody, the other evidence in the case, including the defendant’s own statements, establish the presence of the victim’s blood, making the presumptive test results tending to establish the location of the blood highly relevant.

There was never, in any report I read ever , a suggestion that nothing remained of her, it's just that she was never found.
And at this stage we have no idea how he dealt with her body post mortem or how he disposed of it.

We have a science graduate grasping at straws and citing inappropriate and inadequate testing in a desperate attempt to destroy what little evidence the fBI analysed and proved already.

YY is still a missing person.

I'm not finding proof absolute of death from that laboratory result, proof of presence in his apartment and proof her blood is there is what exists.

Whereas it is possible he dismembered her body post mortem, it is unlikely and improbable that he did it in order to flush it down a toilet.
The defence must be costing the state a considerable amount of money.

Ref to the above report again, any excuse to stay out of reddit's pigs and what they do to people...

All the media were ambivalent about whose handprint it was, actually.

Recall they requested and gained permission to record his handprint while he was in jail?
Report refers to a large handprint, by which, I took to mean fully formed as opposed to physically large

YY was small. I don't know whether they requested handprints from Michelle or TEB, they may well have, but suppose they did not?
do they have her blood on his handprint and is it sufficient proof for a dP case?

I have a feeling it is not.
He can still say, her dna got there because she was in the car,touching things in apartment that had been in car after her, a stretch, but this dude goes the full distance re stretching.

I'm seriously having a really hard time believing this is his first.
Was there sufficient blood to assume a knife crime had been the cause of death or was it merely expectorated or vomited blood? Strangulation is his thing very much too.
He did a really thorough job of cleaning up which is probably why the fBI are saying it was meticulously planned.

I'm just hoping they have an awful lot more than they're saying.
And i'm still hoping we'll (we the world who cares) find her for her family. And as Webthrush said pigs certainly don't eat jeans jackets bags and spectacles

 

[Webthrush]

Pig farms are numerous and scattered all throughout rural Champaign. In fact, quite a few pig farms on the very edge of the U of I campus. Two thing that bother me about transporting her body, it seems very very likely her death was violent with lots of blood, how did he get her out of his apartment, down a hallway, into his car and leaving absolutely no trace amounts of blood?? Did they luminol his car? Did a cadaver dog ever sniff his Saturn astra???

I agree her death was violent, but I don't think it's that clear whether there was "lots" of blood or just some as a result; and I suspect he could've stuffed her tightly into a duffel bag of some sort that didn't leave blood traces in the vehicle -- don't know if that would've obscured 'death scent' from subsequent cadaver dogs?
Both hog farms & wood chippers have been employed by criminals previously, so they're not outlandish (especially in a case that goes this long without a body), though of those choices I think a hog lagoon (not a feeding area), IF accessible, is the most likely dumping area. (But still many other possibilities).

 

[altojack]

At the moment I'm going with the pigs too. Her clothing, glasses and anything else could have been burnt and buried in dumped here and there in road side bins, or those big skips for rubbish.

Kitty, you're in Ireland I believe? Correct or not? How are you for skimming through small print? I've got a copy of BCs favourite book, but I'm struggling here to skim through looking for bits. Dare I ask, do you want it for research purposes only of course, there's some rather risqué passages that I did see but they weren't killings. The three folk were just having a funsome threesome.

My husband is looking rather pallid these last few days since the book has been in my hands, Kitty dear, just message me if you'd like it and where to to send.

 

[kittythehare]

At the moment I'm going with the pigs too. Her clothing, glasses and anything else could have been burnt and buried in dumped here and there in road side bins, or those big skips for rubbish.

Kitty, you're in Ireland I believe? Correct or not? How are you for skimming through small print? I've got a copy of BCs favourite book, but I'm struggling here to skim through looking for bits. Dare I ask, do you want it for research purposes only of course, there's some rather risqué passages that I did see but they weren't killings. The three folk were just having a funsome threesome.

My husband is looking rather pallid these last few days since the book has been in my hands, Kitty dear, just message me if you'd like it and where to to send.

How sweet of you. I read the thing many years ago when I was more adventurous.. . I just recall the shock per page. well done on you getting the book, I suppose all we need from it is methods of disposal of bodies and whether he had pre-planned those disposal sites. I do not remember those details...
It is possible they are relevant because in her first interview with the FBI Michelle noted his favourite book was missing after the weekend ...
I hope it's not the pigs because there will be no trace ever remaining.
You're right about the clothes, of course, much easier to dispose of those in various places.
Also possible he traveled some distance to a dumpster or several dumpsters... he had it planned.

It's never been mentioned or even suggested but I was reading an Atlantic article earlier on Isis and meeting up via Steam and it crossed my mind as a possibility that he was creating some sort of a CV for himself in the hope of gaining admission to some nefarious group or organisation, not necessarily a middle Eastern one. More like the possibility that it was some kind of a rite of passage, in which case he would have kept records as proof.
Longshot and I think we touched upon it before now...

 

[trunkizback]

Well, like, there's plastic. It's usually used for things like this.
who knows?
Perhaps he drained all her body fluids prior to moving her? Perhaps she was dismembered.

I don't recall which tests the did on his car, but they took it away for testing, ok.
Recall the initial inspection of his car? One side was visibly cleaner than the other.

bTW, the pig farm is merely a theory froma not too scientific book about ways of disposing of dead bodies post mortem. It was a toss-up between feeding it to pigs who would be certain to devour it or putting it through a wood chopper thing which was guaranteed to chop even bones to nothingness... It's possibly wholly inaccurate. We're just killing time as best we can, me with inane theories, I'm just hoping against hope that the pig theory is a myth, I really really am.t is pure speculation and nothing else.

I live very close to Champaign , and yes there are hog farms much closer than a half tank of gas. But, unless he had a hog farmer as a co conspirator, I can't see him getting it done that way.At the risk of being ghoulish, here's what I think he probably did.
First off. YY weighed what ? 110? If he put her in the bathtub and cut her legs , arms and ( sigh ) head off, you're looking at a maybe 60 pound torso. Wrap them in plastic and 3 medium to large duffle bags would hold that. And remember , he lifts weights. He could easily carry each bag to his car. From there his options are many. One each in dumpsters which are everywhere. Or throw them in any number of ponds, lakes. I know LE isn't going to say anything till the trial, but I wonder if, in any of the secret recordings etc he has already said as much. Let's say LE did hear him say that, when the girlfriend was wearing the wire. By then, even knowing she was in a dumpster would make finding her near impossible. Any dumpster or dumpsters within say a 60 mile circle? Staggering area to try and cover. I really fear for the emotions of YY's mother and family when some of these details start coming out at the trial.

 

[kittythehare]

I live very close to Champaign , and yes there are hog farms much closer than a half tank of gas. But, unless he had a hog farmer as a co conspirator, I can't see him getting it done that way.At the risk of being ghoulish, here's what I think he probably did.
First off. YY weighed what ? 110? If he put her in the bathtub and cut her legs , arms and ( sigh ) head off, you're looking at a maybe 60 pound torso. Wrap them in plastic and 3 medium to large duffle bags would hold that. And remember , he lifts weights. He could easily carry each bag to his car. From there his options are many. One each in dumpsters which are everywhere. Or throw them in any number of ponds, lakes. I know LE isn't going to say anything till the trial, but I wonder if, in any of the secret recordings etc he has already said as much. Let's say LE did hear him say that, when the girlfriend was wearing the wire. By then, even knowing she was in a dumpster would make finding her near impossible. Any dumpster or dumpsters within say a 60 mile circle? Staggering area to try and cover. I really fear for the emotions of YY's mother and family when some of these details start coming out at the trial.

She is never gonna be found, is she?

 

[dm92]

I live very close to Champaign , and yes there are hog farms much closer than a half tank of gas. But, unless he had a hog farmer as a co conspirator, I can't see him getting it done that way.At the risk of being ghoulish, here's what I think he probably did.
First off. YY weighed what ? 110? If he put her in the bathtub and cut her legs , arms and ( sigh ) head off, you're looking at a maybe 60 pound torso. Wrap them in plastic and 3 medium to large duffle bags would hold that. And remember , he lifts weights. He could easily carry each bag to his car. From there his options are many. One each in dumpsters which are everywhere. Or throw them in any number of ponds, lakes. I know LE isn't going to say anything till the trial, but I wonder if, in any of the secret recordings etc he has already said as much. Let's say LE did hear him say that, when the girlfriend was wearing the wire. By then, even knowing she was in a dumpster would make finding her near impossible. Any dumpster or dumpsters within say a 60 mile circle? Staggering area to try and cover. I really fear for the emotions of YY's mother and family when some of these details start coming out at the trial.

I know they have searched a few local lakes/ponds, and I have always gotten the sense they think he put her in water. As to dumpsters, he could easily figure out the pickup schedule for a number of dumpsters, and put her parts in different dumpsters that are picked up on Mondays. That's a three week head start he has on concealing he remains and getting them into multiple landfills. Supporting the notion that he cut her up and dispersed her is that plea negotiations evidently failed. Her parents want her body, and if he cut her up and dispersed her into multiple dumpsters, or threw her parts in different rivers/streams, he has no body to give -so, there is no deal he can make.

Arguing a bit against this: Prosecutors have told the court that he has not revealed the location of her remains to law enforcement, and that they are actively listening to his calls and other communications for indications as to what he did with her remains. So, at the very least, they are not certain about what he did with her, and think she is still out there and could possibly be, at least partially, recovered. Also, he probably put a lot of stock in not being convicted if they can't ever find her body, so though he couldn't keep his mouth shut about other aspects of the case, maybe with TEB and others, he was totally silent on what he did with her body.

 

[Webthrush]

I know they have searched a few local lakes/ponds, and I have always gotten the sense they think he put her in water. As to dumpsters, he could easily figure out the pickup schedule for a number of dumpsters, and put her parts in different dumpsters that are picked up on Mondays. That's a three week head start he has on concealing he remains and getting them into multiple landfills. Supporting the notion that he cut her up and dispersed her is that plea negotiations evidently failed. Her parents want her body, and if he cut her up and dispersed her into multiple dumpsters, or threw her parts in different rivers/streams, he has no body to give -so, there is no deal he can make.

Arguing a bit against this: Prosecutors have told the court that he has not revealed the location of her remains to law enforcement, and that they are actively listening to his calls and other communications for indications as to what he did with her remains. So, at the very least, they are not certain about what he did with her, and think she is still out there and could possibly be, at least partially, recovered. Also, he probably put a lot of stock in not being convicted if they can't ever find her body, so though he couldn't keep his mouth shut about other aspects of the case, maybe with TEB and others, he was totally silent on what he did with her body.

Of course we’re all just guessin’ at this, but I think he did tell TEB in general terms what he did with the body, especially given that he was brash enough to take her to the gathering for YY and point out more perfect victims, having probably already told details of what he did inside that apt. — I mean surely, surely she would’ve asked about the body disposal (even been directed to by LE); but if he simply said he scattered her remains in the countryside, or at a farm outside town, or in 5 different dumpsters (maybe even a dumpster that was headed to an incinerator, not a landfill), then LE still might not have a lot of specifics to go on. I suspect there are still some body remnants that could be DNA tested if found, but remains that could be sent back home to China I’m doubtful. Once this trial gets started the public testimony will probably be nauseating (perhaps literally so for some jurors!).

 

[kittythehare]

Did he have time to sell her body?

 

[kittythehare]

body disposal
FBI Study on Body Disposal Methods, Innocence Project, & Serial Killers : serialpodcast

 

[Webthrush]

body disposal
FBI Study on Body Disposal Methods, Innocence Project, & Serial Killers : serialpodcast

the FBI link listed at top of the article Kitty links to is broken, but I found the study referenced here (pdf):
Serial Murder: Pathways for Investigations

Part 4, specifically on "body disposal," begins on page 28 and looks interesting as does the entire 78-pg FBI report.
(the study is actually of "serial" killers, and of course we have no indication at this point that BC is in that category)

 

[kittythehare]

the FBI link listed at top of the article Kitty links to is broken, but I found the study referenced here (pdf):
Serial Murder: Pathways for Investigations

Part 4, specifically on "body disposal," begins on page 28 and looks interesting as does the entire 78-pg FBI report.
(the study is actually of "serial" killers, and of course we have no indication at this point that BC is in that category)

Thanks, am going through serial killer threads on reddit and reading the comments of deleted members.. well, we were told he was there... desperation, I know..

 

[dm92]

There was a status conference in front of the Judge via telephone the other day. Defense moved to delay the trial. Arguments were heard. Shadid gave the defense until noon tomorrow to file a motion, and the prosecution until the end of the day on Friday to file a response, then there will be a hearing on February 25th.

As Shadid has said in the past that he would be willing to delay the trial for a "matter of weeks," and has said that he was open to "reasonable" requests for a delay, I do expect them to get some additional time. Nevertheless, he has said he really wants to get this started in April, and since he said it was ridiculous to consider a six-month delay, I can't see him ok'ing a 3-5 month delay. Based on this and other things he has said, my guess is that he will delay the start of jury selection to near the end of April, and will then give them a delay of four weeks between the verdict and the start of the penalty phase if BC is found guilty.

For her family's sake, I want this to get started ASAP, but in the grand scheme of things, if giving them a little more time diminishes any grounds for appeal he may have, then I don't think starting it a few weeks later will be a big deal. Shadid also realizes the hardship the family is enduring, so I can't imagine the start of this will be pushed back more than a few weeks at most.

 

[mrsobrien]

Hi all! Just checking in here... can't believe this is still going... :-(

 

[kittythehare]

Hi all! Just checking in here... can't believe this is still going... :-(

Your presence has been awaited and anticipated and any theories much appreciated. Welcome back!

 

[dm92]

Hi all! Just checking in here... can't believe this is still going... :-(

Death Penalty. That's why. That and also because he is either too delusional/too much of a monster to make a deal and trade her body for life in prison, or he knows he can't give them her body because of how he disposed of it.....

Either way, it won't be much longer now. Supposed to start in early April. He might possibly be granted a little bit more of a continuance for mental health examinations his defense wants for mitigation in the penalty phase of his trial, but it shouldn't be much. This should finally get going by late April/early May at the latest. Fingers crossed......

 

[dm92]

They are asking for a start date of July 1st....

Christensen's lawyers ask to delay start of trial to July 1

 

[kittythehare]

They are asking for a start date of July 1st....

Christensen's lawyers ask to delay start of trial to July 1

This is the bit where I run cussing and screaming for the hills. NO.

 

[Webthrush]

They are asking for a start date of July 1st....
Christensen's lawyers ask to delay start of trial to July 1

any idea how quickly Shadid will rule on this? hope your original thoughts were right and he won't allow for this length of postponement -- surely he realizes that if he does, the Defense will merely come back at the end of June and ask for a further extension because of X, Y, and Z, or because this out-of-state psychiatrist just didn't work out... on and on and on...

 

[dm92]

any idea how quickly Shadid will rule on this? hope your original thoughts were right and he won't allow for this length of postponement -- surely he realizes that if he does, the Defense will merely come back at the end of June and ask for a further extension because of X, Y, and Z, or because this out-of-state psychiatrist just didn't work out... on and on and on...

I am sure he will rule quickly on it. He will hold a hearing on the matter on February 25th, and I would expect a ruling within a few days of that.

He said he was open to a "reasonable" request. Certainly, July is more reasonable than October....... but, he has also said he wants to get this underway, and that he was open to a delay of weeks and not months. Also, these delays put a further burden on YY's family and on witnesses, and Shadid has already increased inconvenience to them by moving it to Peoria.

One of the defense's arguments for July 1st is that their new psychiatrist is saying they can be done and ready to testify by July 1, and that they need to have the testing all finished by the start of the trial, so they can be consistent in their questioning and cross examination of witnesses in both the penalty and the punishment phase. To me, that seems to be a stretch. Many of those who testify in the punishment phase aren't probably going to testify in the guilt phase, and those who do would be testifying on different matters. For instance, if one of YY's friends testifies in the guilt phase, the testimony would presumably be about what happened the day YY went missing, and how they interacted with investigators and what they told investigators during the course of the investigation. Then, should they testify in the punishment phase, it would be about what their friendship with YY meant to them, what her personal character was like, and how they have been affected by her loss. Moreover, they aren't using any kind of mental health defense for the guilt phase. This aspect is only supposed to be addressed in the punishment phase. The question for the guilt phase is simply "Did Brendt Christensen kidnap and kill Yingying Zhang, and did he lie to Federal investigators during the investigation of this event?" IF you are not using a mental health-based defense for these questions, I don't see how completing mental health examinations is absolutely required before beginning the guilt phase.

I am by *no* means any expert on this, and you can never predict what Judges will do, but if I had to hazard a guess, I would say they won't get July 1st, but they might get mid May to early June for the start, then possibly get a little more time between the verdict and the start of the punishment phase.

I am still hoping for late April/early May.