CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #40 *ARREST*

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Ccging said:
I think you are on to something, and KK’s ex in the affidavit states “CK did not want any details of the affair”.

So PF and KK had “relations” in college and again in 2016. That we know of. Not sure of the ages of KK’s kiddos but it’s possible one of them is not CK’s. As bad as that would be for KK’s kiddo...I’ve wondered if that is something PF had on KK....
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I think if there was going to be some sort of strong "bond" or "secret" between PF and KK, perhaps one of her kids might be PF's (watched too much GoT recently). It would be something they both share and at the same time want to be kept a secret. Or...maybe they're both just narcissists.
 
gliving said:
I snipped your post down to this part. It was PF's brother who was at TG dinner at 230. Brother says PF showed up "later", not giving a time. Also the affidavit says PF's phone pinged near KB's house between 13:00 and 16:30 on the 22nd, placing him at the condo at that time. The 15:36 video confirms this.

From KOAA live blog:

"Frazee’s lawyer asked Adams about his interviews with Frazee’s brother, Sean Frazee. Adams said Sean Frazee arrived at Thanksgiving with his family around 2:30 p.m. and Patrick arrived later. Sean said he didn’t notice anything out of the ordinary. The defense claims Sean was a member of law enforcement and would have noticed suspicious behavior."
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I took this to mean "a little later", but you're right, it doesn't say that. Maybe he didn't go until after the 3:36 sighting.
 
What's been forgotten here it seems is PF is the one who swung the bat. Not KK, not SF.

KK, SF, anyone else, may have a piss poor moral compass, but they didn't swing the bat.

Let's place the blame on PF. If he didn't do this, KB would be alive today.
 
Hatfield said:
JMO
I can almost guarantee there were drugs in the coffee if KK went to KB's door with some coffee and here is why.

The sheer logic if KK could not get herself to put something in the coffee then she would have never gone to the door in the first place.
The whole point of going to the door with coffee would have been if it was drugged.

So if coffee was delivered then I can almost guarantee it had something in it. So something went wrong with that plan. Either not enough stuff to knock her out or KB threw it out. I suspect maybe PF called her a little later and she answered sounding just fine so they knew it didnt work or something like that.
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I think you are absolutely right..and it hurts to write this, but she knew that KB was burned and no testing could be done.
 
Steelslady said:
Good Gawd, why would anybody allow her to hide out at their house? I wouldn't want that trash in my house- I'd be afraid she'd be thirsty for another kill. Seriously, I don't think this woman should be roaming the streets.

Anyone foolish enough to let her stay better toss all their food and beverages in the trash and sleep with one eye open, in a securely locked room, with a loaded gun and baseball bat on either side of them. No way, no how. Forgetaboutit!
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Protect those kids too. What a monster.
 
heartgoesout said:
It just doesn't make sense to me that he left a mess in KB's house for that long.
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Oh while I am at it, speculating on my porch on this cold evening, why don't I just throw this out there- ha! Maybe Krystal was there later that night, helping with the clean up, and maybe she only had her burner phone on her, while her phone was either mailed elsewhere or someone else drove it to her. God knows she's had enough people help her cover up Kelsey's death and the plans before it. I am sure some special aunty might have helped her again, never know!
 
zecats said:
BBM
Makes sense. I wondered about the basically "Get down here. You have a mess to clean up" comment. Really? He destroys KB all over her condo and then tells KK SHE has a mess to clean up? Definitely some control over her somehow, somewhere. I'd be thinking...ah - not MY mess. IMO
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Yeah. It kinda fits.

The candle thing just wreaks of something a woman would come up with, and him ordering her to clean up a bloody crime scene, makes sense if she was involved in the crime.

Specifically, the planning.

It’s also possible that he simply had her under his thumb, and he was controlling and domineering, but I think the former makes the most sense.
 
Hatfield said:
Absolutely if SF was near the burning then surely she would want to know what was burning. Especially with the cardinal rule in rural places that you dont burn plastics because they give off a horrendous smell and horrendous black poisonous smoke.

Most people that burn debri in rural places will be sure to remove all plastics and anything that will give off a really foul odor or really black smoldering smoke like plastics or rubber.
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She knew by the odor. Every article I have read said it is unmistakable.
 
So what now is the situation re: possible additional charges against KB? Remind me, given her plea deal, any chance for additional charges? Or is that it?
 
I cannot possibly keep up with this thread. Still back on page 7. Every time I start reading, I have to stop. I think I may have to wait for the Dateline on this one. So, as per usual, I don't have anything substantial to add. Granted, in the few pages I've read since the court appearance, I have had many thoughts, ideas, and comments, but I'm sure they've been discussed again and again by now. (That is generally how it goes for me, anyway!)

My heart is with the Bs and Baby KB. May they find the strength to not only get through this horrible ordeal, but also to live the life KB would want them to have (esp Baby KB). Every post I read makes me think of how they have felt at hearing these events, and how Baby KB will grow up with this legacy.

Thank you to all the WB posters that keep us so well informed with all the links, and also for correcting misinformation in a timely manner so it doesn't grow legs and a life. <3
 
UnicornDragon said:
What's been forgotten here it seems is PF is the one who swung the bat. Not KK, not SF.

KK, SF, anyone else, may have a piss poor moral compass, but they didn't swing the bat.

Let's place the blame on PF. If he didn't do this, KB would be alive today.
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If KK had gone to the police the first or even second time she went to CO to harm KB and told them of PF’s intent, KB would be alive today.
 
Aydrianna523 said:
I tried really really hard to believe kk wasn't totally involved, but I was wrong for sure. My random thoughts here.
1) Disgusting that PF played a game with kb....to sniff and guess the candle scents, etc. The whole thing is totally demented. I suppose if she had the sweater over her head she wouldn't scream (before getting hit) and alert the neighbors. He is truly a wolf in sheep's clothing.
2) And KK...something is very wrong with her too. To almost murder someone 3 times. Maybe she didn't do the crime because she wanted pf to do it. He'd get life (if caught) and not her.
3) And SF, what did she think pf was burning? [I actually had a DREAM this week that I turned my son in for some (unknown) wrongdoing. I freaked out in the DREAM, but I did it anyways. Obviously I'm emotionally caught up in all this].
Soooo...didn't sf ask him what he was burning?
4) The brother could have been told by pf as to what he did since the brother was with pf a couple times after the murder, and it seems he told pf to get a lawyer. How about just suggesting coming clean and do a *CW.
5) How did LE miss the blood? It didn't show up with luminosity, or whatever the word is? Who was in charge of it. CBI? Maybe they thought pf did it, but because ît was SO clean they didn't think it was done with bloodshed.
Does lay people need to come in to future crime scenes to help LE out? Oy vey (don't really know what that means but it sounded appropriate).
6) Thankful we got answers, but it's shocking, even for those who expected the worst. You don't usually get this much detail in crimes because the perp doesn't usually want the facts out.
*Chris Watts guilty plea
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One issue is blood has a distinctive iron smell. I would think it difficult to think this was completely removed based on the description of the scene (not that I am believing everything or anything KK is saying). Clorox is also distinctive. Decomposition or the sense of death is also distinctive in such a small living space. Not to be critical but this is probably why CB noted the blood and observed the nuisances of the space was because of the female sense of smell and sight (sorry guys). One thing a really good investigator does is not only ask what is here but what isn't? Such as the bath mat. Go Mom!
 
oviedo said:
I think the murder was between 3:37 and 4:45? - he was seen on the neighbor's camera around that time and then he called SF and KK around the second time - I will find those exact times in the Affidavit but I tend to believe it was during that hour or so. JMO
ETA 13:24 and 15:36 in Warrant.
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Right. Meaning he went to Walmart first. I thought so but I couldn’t find the time for the video with all 3 of them. I think that’s plenty of time to do what he did and clean himself up and still get to dinner, albeit late.

Taking Baby K to Walmart and then back home to murder KB doesn’t really make sense. Wouldn’t it be easier to shop without her?

Re: the 1:24pm video. The arrest warrant says that someone fitting PF’s physical description enters KB’s front door. No mention of him having the baby carrier. I wonder if he left her in the truck while he killed KB.

Not that that makes this any better, but maybe Baby K wasn’t in the house to witness it after all.
 
MassGuy said:
Yeah, the details of that phone call are known only to PF and SF, and neither will tell the truth about it.

We also may never know what SF saw, her involvement (if any), and her true feelings about Kelsey.

Legally, I think she’s safe though.
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I agree with this except SF being 'safe'. DA May sure as heck wanted her on that stand sooooo bad yesterday.

As per the affidavit KB's remains were burned there at the homeplace. I'd say the probability of Momma F not knowing what in the hell that burn was are slim to none IMO. The smell of burning flesh has an odor that is ghastly and it would have taken 2-4 hours probably. Could we get an accessory after the fact for SF please?

MOO
 
Ccging said:
If KK had gone to the police the first or even second time she went to CO to harm KB and told them of PF’s intent, KB would be alive today.
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That’s true, and we should never forget that.

I hope she doesn’t either, and can’t, even if she wants to.

She didn’t swing the bat, and PF deserves everything that is coming to him.

He is the most responsible, as he physically ended her life.

But she doesn’t deserve a pass, not even close.
 
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