UK - Alesha MacPhail, 6, raped & murdered, Ardbeg, Isle of Bute, Scotland, 2 Jul 2018 -*arrest* #3

[Alyce]

Jury now out in the #Alesha MacPhail murder trial @SkyNews

James Matthews on Twitter

Oh that was quick, even by my reckoning

 

[Pooksthebear]

If I were a teenager, having a friends with benefits connection with another teenager, behind my older boyfriend's back, I think I would also delete all media connection to stop him from finding out.
She's young. She's decided she doesn't like the teen any more - why not point the finger at him, gets him out of her life. Plus,she is still living with her older boyfriend despite her - alleged - complaints about him, so he can't be that bad.
The only cctv that we have heard about was on the shore road. Therefore, take a different route, no cctv.
Clothing - she could have got hold of his clothing in advance. No need to get it out of the water.
Take Alesha out of the house, very easy for her.
Carry child to scene. Harder for her to do.
Put clothes into water afterwards. Easy for her to do, though you would have to question why she would bother, if she is trying to frame him.
Destory her own clothing. Easy to do.
Get back to bed without having been missed. I can say, from personal experience, this is very easy to do.
All in 28 minutes ? where did that timing come from ?

Am only posting the above to show that I could find an answer to most of your reasoning. Not saying for one minute that I believe anyone other than the accused carried out this crime.

28 minutes because the shadowy figure was picked up on cctv at 2.26am. If it was her, then the accused left his house at 1.57? And says he went straight to meet her. She would have needed to have a cigarette, chat,sex, get Alesha and be by that camera by 2.26am...

Plus if that was her .. why didn’t he get home till after 3.30am

 

[89leanne89]

Out of interest do the Jury have to deliberate for a minimum amount of time ? Also what is the shortest time anybody can recall a jury coming to a verdict is ?

 

[bronzepurple]

Out of interest do the Jury have to deliberate for a minimum amount of time ? Also what is the shortest time anybody can recall a jury coming to a verdict is ?

that's what I wanted to ask too..

 

[Alyce]

Curious to what people's thoughts are about the charge of defeating the ends of justice being dropped?
I get they dropped it due to lack of evidence, but by doing so are they giving the jury a reason not to convict?
What I mean is that if he hasn't tried to cover his tracks so to speak then how has he commited the crime without leaving 100% clear cut evidence?

I think the Prosecution felt that it was not strong enough. He didn't ( as Tortoise said yesterday ) hide the clothing - it was in the water where it could conceivably be found ( and was ).

To me it just helps to concentrate the Jury's minds on the important detail of the case, rather than possibly getting bogged down in a side element.

 

[Alyce]

28 minutes because the shadowy figure was picked up on cctv at 2.26am. If it was her, then the accused left his house at 1.57? And says he went straight to meet her. She would have needed to have a cigarette, chat,sex, get Alesha and be by that camera by 2.26am...

Plus if that was her .. why didn’t he get home till after 3.30am

No, my point was, why would she have to be back home and in bed within 28 minutes ?

His own testimony said he was walking in the woods - different area to where Alesha was found, but in the woods. Hence getting home at 3.35am

 

[The Equaliser]

Any other verdict than Guilty here I'll be flabbergasted

Prepare to be flabbergasted !

 

[Ruthbullock]

Out of interest do the Jury have to deliberate for a minimum amount of time ? Also what is the shortest time anybody can recall a jury coming to a verdict is ?

Interested to know this as well. JMO- but I think if we get a result this afternoon it will be guilty or not guilty- if it goes over to tomorrow, I think there is potential for not proven verdict as well.

 

[bronzepurple]

In the Crown Court the judge must not, in any event, suggest that a majority is acceptable until after 2 hours and 10 minutes.

--this is from google search...

----this is for England and wales....I can't find info for scotland but I assume it's the same or similar.

 

[bronzepurple]

so maybe by half past one (uk time)..

 

[Ciana]

I don't agree 100% with your post, but i do mirror a number of the points you have made as i too feel (discussion in general aside) that there is an odd sense of determination to condemn which i too find quite uncomfortable.

I had this very conversation last night with a friend last night - i specifically said it worried me to think that a jury (which is by all accounts a random cross section of members of the public) could potentially be made up of people who seem to see things without shades of grey, or get 'nervous' or 'on edge' at the thought of a not guilty verdict. To me that isn't a jury.

I agree with everything that you have said. I have no idea of whether the accused is g. or n.g. but something just does not feel right here. At all. My heart goes out to the mother of Alesha. She look broken. May she have the strength to continue her life, as damaged as it now is, for the sake of herself and Alesha's younger sibling.
There is something about this trial which still doesn't sit right with me. No matter who you look at it, there is fundamentally a lack of concrete evidence against the accused, and whilst his defence to some may seem far fetched it is a defence which has been successfully proven in other cases. It is also something that one of the experts deemed 'technically possible'.

It boils down to this. Either the 16 year old on the stand is a one-in-a-million, acutely advanced psychopath, with the potential to kill again, or there is something far more fundamental at the root of this case. My inclination is to go with the latter.

My gut feeling is, the lack of carelessness in terms of evidence at both the abduction site (the MacPhail's home) and the accused's own home does not add up with the obvious carelessness at the murder scene. Regardless of how you look at this, it simply does not fit.

Lastly, i see no motive. I think the idea that he had been planning this throughout the day is as far fetched as it gets - if he was, he certainly didn't plan particularly well given the mess that was left at the murder scene. However, i do see motive in certain other people involved.

I agree with everyone that justice for Alesha MacPhail is of the upmost importance, but if the wrong person is convicted, that in itself is doing that poor little girl the biggest injustice that could be done.

 

[Hhp28]

Interested to know this as well. JMO- but I think if we get a result this afternoon it will be guilty or not guilty- if it goes over to tomorrow, I think there is potential for not proven verdict as well.

I tend to agree...

 

[Kikixxxx]

No, my point was, why would she have to be back home and in bed within 28 minutes ?

His own testimony said he was walking in the woods - different area to where Alesha was found, but in the woods. Hence getting home at 3.35am

But didn’t he admit that he lied in that testimony

 

[Alyce]

Out of interest do the Jury have to deliberate for a minimum amount of time ? Also what is the shortest time anybody can recall a jury coming to a verdict is ?

I don't believe there is any time limit, but usually a Jury like to have a decent lenght of discussion to show that they have taken the case seriously, even if they are all decided within the first minutes.

 

[neteditor]

In the Crown Court the judge must not, in any event, suggest that a majority is acceptable until after 2 hours and 10 minutes.

--this is from google search...

----this is for England and wales....I can't find info for scotland but I assume it's the same or similar.

I don't think there is any time restriction in Scotland (after significant searching), and in Scotland a majority of 8 jurors can return a verdict without a direction from the Judge (which is required in England).

 

[neteditor]

I don't think there is any time restriction in Scotland (after significant searching), and in Scotland a majority of 8 jurors can return a verdict without a direction from the Judge (which is required in England).

Ah - found something:

"Jury may return verdict(s) at any time: no limit on how long they may take."

http://www.scotland-judiciary.org.uk/Upload/Documents/JuryManualJune2017.pdf

 

[TaylorCallum]

God, I wonder what it's like for that jury right now. It must be extremely tense.

 

[Kikixxxx]

God, I wonder what it's like for that jury right now. It must be extremely tense.

I bet they all went in that room, closed the door and a few burst into tears. I believe there not allowed to talk to each other until deliberation is that true?

 

[Ciana]

Lord Matthews tells the jury “it’s accepted that the crime of murder was committed. It is not accepted the crimes of abduction or rape have been committed.”


He says it’s up to the jury to decide if these crimes were committed, and if it was the accused who carried them out.

Fraser Knight on Twitter

What???? "It is not accepted that the crimes of abduction or rape have been committed"......unless I am entirely losing the plot I was of the understanding that all of those charges were on the indictment and were accepted as fact.

 

[404_notfound]

No, my point was, why would she have to be back home and in bed within 28 minutes ?

His own testimony said he was walking in the woods - different area to where Alesha was found, but in the woods. Hence getting home at 3.35am

You're right Alyce, i knew when i was typing that the timeline was wavering in my head!

She'd need to have had sex, a cigarette and a chat, gone home, silently collected all her kit and Alesha and been on that camera in 28ish minutes, as well as basically following the accused mere minutes behind him (the murder site was in the same direction he went, albeit he claims he went by the high road and she must, to be on camera, have gone the shore road) the murder site is off the High Road, so to be on camera then proceed to the murder side she would have been cutting across the high road, kit, clothes and child in arms, mere moments after he'd walked up it.