UK - Alesha MacPhail, 6, raped & murdered, Ardbeg, Isle of Bute, Scotland, 2 Jul 2018 -*arrest* #4

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I agree that some of the scottish sun journalists are only a few steps above the perpetrator in terms of decency.

Some disgusting sensationalism of a seedy horrible action.

He's not "psycho" or "slenderman"

He is a paedophile and a rapist and a murderer

There is no shortage of accurate terms to describe him with.....why do the journalists always have to stoop so low?
 
The blame for this article lies with the journalists involved.

There are lots of really interesting angles from which to look at what happened here but as per usual the "gutter press" manage to make it into a circus.

But does anyone really expect any better from that newspaper?
 
The Scottish Sun has a new map up:

NINTCHDBPICT000470809529.jpg

Very useful map - we always said the knife was found right outside the McPhail house but it's good to have it confirmed here. As though he threw it away early on ,as soon as he had taken Alesha from the flat - not needing it any more.
Also the shore road route is now shown clearly - if you look at the grassy area to the right of that arrow, I think you can just about make out the shelter that was referred to in one of the statements given by the owner of the cctv.
He said he saw the shadowy figure coming out of the shelter and then moving along the shoreline.
I have always thought the discrepancy in the cctv evidence was due to the layout of the land in that area.
The first cctv sees the murderer carrying something on his back.
The second sighting on cctv describes the murderer as having something on his front, with legs hanging down.
From this I think that he was carrying Alesha over his shoulder.
The first viewing as he comes out of the shelter,he is walking parallel to the shoreline, so the view is highlighting her upper body, on his back.
the second viewing, further along the shoreline, as the land curves inwards, he will be turning towards the houses on that road, as he prepares to head towards the lane leading to High Road and the steps.
So the second viewing has a front view of him, making Alesha's lower body and legs more visible.
Likewise, the clothing on the beach - again we always thought the clothing was found at this end of the beach, close to the murder scene.


ps by we I mean some posters on here - not the Royal we !
 
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The blame for this article lies with the journalists involved.

There are lots of really interesting angles from which to look at what happened here but as per usual the "gutter press" manage to make it into a circus.

But does anyone really expect any better from that newspaper?

The facts are necessary but the sensationalism is not. It's the Sun though.
 
I was thinking about this as well. My immediate reaction to that was one of disgust, but thinking about it more rationally, it seems strange that someone would be able to kill two cats, bury them in his back yard and nothing would get said or done. Also according to the article, it happened 3 years ago so he was only 13 at the time? I'm not sure how much stock to put into these stories. Also, the story of him trying to "drown" a girl when he was 6 or 7 may not be entirely accurate either. Are we sure he wasn't messing around as a kid and got a little carried away? God forbid something did happen back then, he wouldn't even have been held responsible because the age of criminal responsibility in Scotland is 8 years old.

Not that I'm trying to defend him though, we're well aware that he is very capable of heinous and sadistic acts and maybe there were warning signs and red flags leading up to the atrocity he committed. I'm just finding some of these stories a bit sensationalised.

As a mother of 4 of my own children and having worked with children, I've had a lot of experience with hundreds of them in my lifetime and I can honestly say that I've never known anyone nearly drown from being held under water because 'normal play' got 'carried away' ... if a child nearly drowns another child, I'd be concerned.

Re Age of criminal responsibility - in Scotland, it has or is rising from 8 to 12.

I personally think 12 is a more appropriate age.

Minimum age of criminal responsibility
 
I think a lot of us here have traumatic pasts. We’re drawn to these cases partly because we are commited to defending the oppressed, partly to experience a kind of vicarious justice and partly because we enjoy problem solving. I had an older brother very like the accused and suffered greatly at his hands. I am one of life’s survivors like many others here. I’m respectful of his mother’s decision to turn him in. Prompted of course by her friend, the aunt of TM. I don’t have a pitchfork. I’m glad he’s been prevented from hurting anyone else and really hope that he gets support to face his own demons. I’m conscious of the history of Bute, the earlier notorious paedophile abuse cases and in my professional experience the impact of such events ripple outwards and onwards for generations, sometimes in obvious ways, sometimes more subtle. McGarrigle duo's depraved history
There will be more work to be done on the island and I hope they get the support they need and deserve. It’s only through silence that such things can happen.
 
I didn't expect it to all come out quite so soon. Maybe I was being naive.

The sun have pounced on anyone they can, they are shameless.

Echoing what other have said as if the whole thing isn't horrifying enough they need to find a way to turn it soap opera. Yuck.
 
I would say that she wanted to have a voice as she knows everyone has speculated as to who would have born and raised this Monster Rapist and Murderous *advertiser censored**ing Scum*** -(quoting Rab with the Fuc***ing Scum*** comment) and she probably feels guilty and is questioning everything about her parenthood abilities. Remember that she said her heart sank when she reviewed the cctv footage. IMO-Her heart sank because she knew and believed her son had the propensity to commit the crime. She was torn. Ultimately she made the right decision.

As is true in so many cases that we cannot wrap our heads around parents are blamed and perhaps she just wanted to defend herself and her reputation which I think is fair. I have no doubt she is questioning and doubting herself and blaming herself just because he is her son, which is why she does extol his virtues. In a sense doing so says she did do some things right. Mom's always pick out the good things about their kids to brag about or share even while knowing their children's negative qualities and traits . Ted Bundy's Mom will tell you Ted was the perfect son growing up, and to her he was for all she knew. When it came out that he was a serial killer that is all she wanted to hang onto, her perfect recollection of Ted. Maybe denial or maybe self preservation.

I choose to give the woman a break and not look to condemn her or question her, I would never ever want to walk in her shoes and I do not know of a reference guide that suggests how a parent should navigate such a horrific situation when you learn your 16 year old son brutally murdered and raped and ravished a child. The truth is this, Mom is not at all responsible for the crime that her monstrous evil son committed. Give her a moment to vent without judgement. I can only imagine, as a Mom myself, how she is trying to reconcile all that transpired. Forgive her if in your minds eye she did not say the right things. God forbid that anyone of us here would have to deal with the position she is in regarding a crime a child of ours may have committed.


OR maybe ... if instead of covering up for him and protecting him, she had got him help prior to this then Alesha would be looking forward to another weekend with her Daddy and family?

YES, I absolutely commend Mum for handing in CCTV and I appreciate what it took and have empathy for her BUT let's not paint her as a fluffing saint, to be pitied! Who would suspect their loved one of murdering a 6 year old and NOT call police???

She knew him and KNEW what he was capable of. She IS in part to blame for all of this.
 
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OR maybe ... if instead of covering up for him and protecting him, she had got him help prior to this then Alesha would be looking forward to another weekend with her Daddy and family?

YES, I absolutely commend Mum for handing in CCTV and I appreciate what it took and have empathy for her BUT let's not paint her as a fluffing saint, to be pitied! Who would suspect their lives one of murdering a 6 year old and NOT call police???

She knew him and knew what he was capable of. She IS in part to blame for all of this.

Very much so. I don't think people will be defending the mum for long.
 
OR maybe ... if instead of covering up for him and protecting him, she had got him help prior to this then Alesha would be looking forward to another weekend with her Daddy and family?

YES, I absolutely commend Mum for handing in CCTV and I appreciate what it took and have empathy for her BUT let's not paint her as a fluffing saint, to be pitied! Who would suspect their loved one of murdering a 6 year old and NOT call police???

She knew him and KNEW what he was capable of. She IS in part to blame for all of this.

mrazda - I have to agree she and the father are part to blame unless they can prove they had at the very least tried to have him Psychologically assessed - Maybe I missed it in the interview The Sun did with her, but she doesn't mention any of his past misdemeanors (for want of the correct word)
 
I'm shocked, this is not the place to slate the mum, you have no idea what she has been through, the torment I'm sure she has suffered & is still suffering. Her & her daughter's life will never be the same again.
They will have to move away from everything they know & love & probably have to change their names.
How do you know that social services & police weren't involved previously & did nothing?
I could not ever imagine being in her shoe's, she's not on trial, she may have made mistakes, but slating her will not change that. Her marriage has broken down her child is a child killer, rapist & paedophile, just imagine how that feels & have a little empathy for this poor woman.
 
Re Age of criminal responsibility - in Scotland, it has or is rising from 8 to 12.

I personally think 12 is a more appropriate age.

Personally i do not like the "one size fits all" approach to legislation.

Particularly when talking about children, there can be huge developmental differences between children of very similar ages.

When it boils down to it, when talking about criminal responsibility the only real issue should be "did he know that what he was doing was wrong and/or illegal?

This could be different ages for different children

BUT this case has zero to do with any of the above.
This individual was old enough to work, he was old enough to drink like a man and smoke like a man.
He was old enough to stand in court and brazen it out with a lawyer.

The idea that he may not have fully realized that abducting,raping and killing a little girl was illegal is to my mind frankly nuts!
 
I'm shocked, this is not the place to slate the mum, you have no idea what she has been through, the torment I'm sure she has suffered & is still suffering. Her & her daughter's life will never be the same again.
They will have to move away from everything they know & love & probably have to change their names.
How do you know that social services & police weren't involved previously & did nothing?
I could not ever imagine being in her shoe's, she's not on trial, she may have made mistakes, but slating her will not change that. Her marriage has broken down her child is a child killer, rapist & paedophile, just imagine how that feels & have a little empathy for this poor woman.

Cherryplum - Emotions are high and I guess after the interview the Mum gave The Sun (of all the newspapers she could have picked) this has tipped alot of us over the edge - I hope for her sake there is some evidence, that we have not been told about that she indeed did try to have him evaluated. I truly believe it takes a village to raise a child and IMO there are people out there who will be thinking could we have done more ?
 
'm shocked, this is not the place to slate the mum, you have no idea what she has been through, the torment I'm sure she has suffered & is still suffering. Her & her daughter's life will never be the same again.
They will have to move away from everything
they know & love & probably have to change their names.

I agree that the offence is 100% not the fault of his mother (and previously said as much)
Its the way that she presents in what was a totally ill advised interview.

My sympathy was all hers and then she comes out with an interview expressing zero concern for this wee girls family (despite just having sat through her sons horrible attempts to destroy that family too

I think in the circumstances, a little humility would have gone such a long way
 
I agree that the offence is 100% not the fault of his mother (and previously said as much)
Its the way that she presents in what was a totally ill advised interview.

My sympathy was all hers and then she comes out with an interview expressing zero concern for this wee girls family (despite just having sat through her sons horrible attempts to destroy that family too

I think in the circumstances, a little humility would have gone such a long way


I think that is the way the papers have portrayed her, they print what they want to
 
I'm shocked, this is not the place to slate the mum, you have no idea what she has been through, the torment I'm sure she has suffered & is still suffering. Her & her daughter's life will never be the same again.
They will have to move away from everything they know & love & probably have to change their names.
How do you know that social services & police weren't involved previously & did nothing?
I could not ever imagine being in her shoe's, she's not on trial, she may have made mistakes, but slating her will not change that. Her marriage has broken down her child is a child killer, rapist & paedophile, just imagine how that feels & have a little empathy for this poor woman.



She said: "I wanted him to grow up in a safe place, a peaceful environment, and get a good education.
"He wasn’t a violent boy. He was very normal. Yes, he smoked cannabis, but it’s rife among kids on this island.
"I knew he was buying it from Rab [Alesha’s father] and Toni [Rab’s girlfriend], but what could I do? If I went to the police my son would be in trouble."


Alesha murderer 'sexually abused teen & shared explicit pics of her with pals'
 
I honestly can't believe the Facebook witch hunt brigade who still think RM and TM had something to do with it.
I can have and express any opinion I choose thanks. AND for the record I DID say I had empathy for Mum and even for the Convicted killer.


Re - BBM - Do you really think that all that happened under her nose and she was completely oblivious?

For a completely fictional example - just imagine that you found out that your son was sexually abusing your daughter - would you A, fit locks on your daughters bedroom door and hope that solved it or B, contact police or Dr or ... someone! to make it stop?, get help for your daughter AND your son?

I'm sure i've seen this rumour somewhere?
 
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