CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #42 *ARREST*

[AgeofAquaruis]

I apologize AgeofAquarius. You were speculating about the gun being used on 11/24 and it went right over my head. I was thinking 11/22.
MOO

No worries. I figured as much.

 

[Gardener1850]

Nope. Just think of casey Anthony's case. The defense simply suggested that her dad was the killer and never presented an ounce of evidence to show that. Casey never took the stand.

But for those dingbat jurors it was enough. (Especially since they really just wanted to go home).

Since the evidence all seems to show KK was not in CO on the day of the murder, could the defense try to accuse PF's mom of being the actual murderer rather than PF? She would have potentially had access to PF's phone to use to text KK from KB's condo. I don't for one moment think that SF did it, but her pleading the 5th and refusing to answer any questions at all made me think it was part of a strategy. I sure hope there is no way for the defense to pin it on someone else. MOO.

 

[oviedo]

I don't think it would be relevant to custody now. Best interests of the child is the standard. But I am very interested in these documents. Were they lawyer prepared or pro so, or something off the internet? Were they prepared by PF or KB? If prepared by KB as if she was preparing to file a custody action, then I believe custody really could have been the motive for him killing her. But I am withholding until we know more about them.

Now that is intriguing - what if they were KB's and he took them from her???

 

[scmom]

Yep, and that is odd. He was planning this for a long time, yet he seems to have carried it out in a very unplanned rushed way. It seems to me that something must have happened that led him to think it had to be done right then, right there. There seems to be a missing puzzle piece here. I'm 100% positive that he did it, but the reasons are not so clear.

So you're looking for the trigger that ruined his plan?

 

[gliving]

I hope the FBI investigated KK phone and activities back a few months because I fear KB's stalking and plotting may go back further than she admits.

In August, Kelsey is in treatment for two weeks for depression and anxiety. Less than a month later KK admits she is actively plotting to murder KB. Showing up at KB's door trying to make friends over coffee and play-dates. The next month she again drives to Woodland Park this time armed with a steel rod to murder KB. Two weeks later KK is sitting outside of KB's apartment with a baseball bat.

MOO KK reminds me of the psycho from a Lifetime movie that haunts her lover's wife trying to make her feel crazy.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The way he killed her was pure hatred. More than a custody issue. Just a spoiled mamas boy who couldn’t have his way. Wonder how long his life was full of such rage and hatred and if it had to do with mama and daddy.

It is the simple mockery or his mental problem, when PF instructed KKL after the murder, to send a message form KB's phone to himself:
Do you still love me at all? (or similar wording)

Thread by @SamKraemerTV: "We’ve made it to Cripple Creek. The preliminary hearing for State of Colorado vs. Patrick Frazee starts in a little under 90 minutes. I’ll t […]" #KelseyBerreth #PatrickFrazee #KrystalKenney #ParrickFrazee

 

[bonjoviblonde]

Yes but using common sense should prevent that. I kind of think some are too determined to make the evidence fit a scenario they want to believe in that common sense is being ignored?

I posted about that yesterday. The myth of the she devil. People tend to judge women more harshly than men in these cases.

Yep. We saw the same thing in the CW case. There were people who were so determined for SW to be the murderer, the evidence regarding CW was repeatedly ignored until the bitter end and some still don't believe it.

I think everyone on this board is disgusted and appalled by KK. I think everyone would love nothing more than for her to go to prison for many years. She has participated more than I thought she did, given that she got a plea deal. It's very upsetting. I agree that she was in on the whole thing and didn't do anything from fear. However, PF is the actual murderer and without her testimony combined with the evidence, we may not have had as strong of a case, especially for this good ole hometown cowboy. They both belong behind bars but if they can only get one, then let it be the one who did the actual murder. Believing PF is the actual killer does not absolve KK. I don't think the posters saying KK is not the murderer are defending her in ANY way. The one thing this board can agree on is how morally corrupt she is.

 

[oviedo]

So you're looking for the trigger that ruined his plan?

Perhaps she did meet someone else and was going to move away and he discovered this - deciding that death might as well happen during the long holiday weekend?? He does not strike me as that bright IMO

 

[InvSmith]

There are those who are just going to blame KK over PF no matter what evidence comes forward. Even if secret videotape of PF killing KB is released, I'm sure we'll still hear about how KK was the "true" mastermind-the same way that even when CW pleaded guilty people were still blaming SW for CW's actions. It's baffling.

I think what some are raising is the argument of reasonable doubt. Not that it will work by any means but if you do not work these scenarios then you don't plan for holes in the prosecution of PF. Some of the timelines and gaps raised here are helpful to the prosecution's planning. It is not for the downing of women over men, it is just good case strategy. There is obviously evidence we do not know and should not know. Don't take challenging the prosecution as anything but helpful. PF is where he should be. KKL is where she should be based on people in position to decide such matters. I personally think they also called her a liar and verified what they could and did an outstanding job. I doubt seriously anything of them sleep well after being on this case knowing that she walks around freely.

 

[MyBelle]

.

I seem to have entered the thread at an inopportune moment during a heated argument not of my making last night and I regret it.

I agree with you that CBI Slater was specifically addressing that PF and KB phones were moving in tandem, and that it was not about KK phone pinging locally. It's all in the context of the totality of Slater's testimony that can be reviewed in tweets on pages 51-52 of thread#39.

But I have found no specific statement from Slater excluding KK from being present in CO or anywhere prior to 11/24 except that MG states they exchanged cars on 11/23. The topic of KK's whereabouts on 11/22 is not addressed in the Prelim testimony that I can find.

I agree with you that in western US spoken English, 'the' and 'a' (defendant) can be virtually indistinguishable especially in poor acoustics. Maybe someone with a relationship can tweet Sam K and ask him to clarify his understanding since he was there and experienced the hearing.

Thanks for the reminder that this Prelim was only to establish probable cause re: PF - that makes sense to maintain as a background at all times to the information presented. I was left with the impression of careful, selected wording, and that the Prosecution has a great deal more that they have not revealed.

The Judge said the prelim purpose wasn't to receive testimony. So all they did was establish enough facts to keep PF locked up without bail.

But there was information revealed for the first time pertaining to Nov. 22 including the fact that PF made a call and received a call from an Idaho area code that afternoon.

And that CB received a text from KB that night stating PF had returned her gun and she had gone shooting.

JMO

Courtroom updates: Preliminary hearing for Patrick Frazee, who is accused of killing Kelsey Berreth

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Now that is intriguing - what if they were KB's and he took them from her???

They found the custody papers at SF. If the papers were her's and PF's, fingerprints of KB would have been mysterious. But were the papers tested for it? Probably not.

 

[gliving]

From WPPD official facebook page.

 

[Medstudies]

Warning, this is just going to be a stream of consciousness comment about PF trying to paint KB as mentally unstable.

first off I will just say: gaslighting.

In MOO, he escalated to murder because (if I recall correctly) she had sought treatment for depression. For anyone familiar with abusers, gaslighting can push people to the brink of suicide/despondency. It can begin with simply moving someone’s car keys or phone, or saying “you forgot this”... And before you know it, you’re doubting every possible thing you thought, said or and did

Again, MOO, assuming she did go away for a couple weeks, away from his manipulations, I suspect, quickly realized she wasn’t losing her mind. She may have realized how abusive he was being.

I actually believe his intentions were to push her to suicide. When that didn’t work, he manipulated KK to help get rid of her.

I wonder if there might be any documentation that might show this to be true?

...and that probably made little sense! Haha

 

[PrairieWind]

Yes, but they have definite proof pf was at kb's on 11/22..and for quite a length of time. (He just didn't pick Baby K up and leave). And he ALSO told a pack of lies to cb. Now if pf wasn't caught on surveillance, and he wasn't caught lying about his whereabouts after his wal mart trip, and if the pings of his and kb's phones weren't traveling together, and if he hadn't filled out custody papers, that might cause reasonable doubt for him; but that's not the picture we're getting. The jurors are most likely going to figure it out.
Even if kk had been there on 11/22, and she high-tailed it out of there the SAME day with kb's phone pinging with hers, it still wouldn't mean pf is innocent. It could make her guilty (along with pf), though.
The speedy plea deal might be to get baby K into good hands. You actually can't tell what pf is capable of doing to hurt the B family. If you're going down you might take others with you. And I think LE has plenty of evidence so they decided to make a quick 'chess' move.

I'm thinking something else entirely. I think PF had a backup plan and that plan was to put this all in KK's lap. The key is to poke holes in the 11/22 location of KK OR the time/date of death of KB.

 

[gliving]

Woodland Park Police Department

The bulletin says search could last up to 80 days!

 

[dixiegirl1035]

No, I did not see a time stated for the ENT bank video, but just the date 11/22. The Pros wanted to point out the black tote in the bed of PF truck.

(I think PF went to Walmart and the bank knowing he would be captured on video with the baby/carrier to support his alibi for the time of the murder. The Pros would not help him with that by giving the time? but they gave the Walmart time 1254-1317 which conflicts slightly with PF,KB flowers and baby at KB door "around 1 PM." I trust the timeline will all be nailed down, eventually. This is like a giant puzzle, with moving parts, in 3D. JMO)

12:27 KB departed the Safeway

12:37 KB car seen on Furniture Store surveillance on her way home.

Unknown to me exact time...~12:40-12:45 or so, it showed a still of her with him and the flowers and the baby (..see screen shot of twitter for Sam and another newsperson at prelim, I assumed it was a very short and sweet because it takes 9 minutes to get back to the Walmart)

12:54-1:15 PF at WalMart

1:24 PF enters condo (just 9 minutes after Walmart)

3:36 PF seen on camera at KB

4:24 calls mom while still on KB's cell tower heading west

437 contacts KKL Southwest of KB and she returns call while he is pinging in divide

HTH with understanding the timing. And I'm sure somebody is going to correct me for everyone if I am wrong here in any time frame. My opinion is that 12:45 is " around 1", and I think that fits with the time frame.

Unfortunately, we don't know what time that the Bank drive-thru was done, nor do we know what was purchased at Walmart.

 

[Aydrianna523]

From WPPD official facebook page.

Wow! Still looking for her remains so it's possible they do have a clue.
16-80 days possible in the search.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Re motive:
Slater says he knew Kelsey had dinner with a coworker the week of Thanksgiving. Didn’t say who. @KOAA #KelseyBerreth#PatrickFrazee

It still concerns me that he possibly had access to her phone records, showing calls and texts as she was on his plan.

I wonder if law enforcement checked into that with one of their search warrants.

 

[indicolite22]

Maybe she didn't fall for his BS? Maybe he couldn't control her? Maybe she was seeing his true colors? There are so many things it could be.

If that was the case, why didn't she break up with him? He on the other hand, had no problem telling his circle of people that they were no longer together. So he wrote off their relationship several months before he started plotting against her with KK. I still find it hard to believe that KK didn't know about Kelsey for a long time.

 

[allboys]

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