CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #8

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oceanblueeyes said:
As an aside: when I see the tv ads for viagra (spelling ?) they caution anyone from taking this particular drug if they have heart problems.

Didn't he just go to Mexico to buy viagra in January before this happened?

Imo
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OOOOH GOOD POINT!!

I'm going to do some searching here. I want to get to the root of this. I think there is a big weed.
 
Hi all - some of you will remember me from McStay discussions back in 2013. Just returning to the case now; a lot of threads to get through and am hoping there might be a link to somewhere that gives day-by-day accounts of the trial thus far? TIA!
 
Force Ten said:
OOOOH GOOD POINT!!

I'm going to do some searching here. I want to get to the root of this. I think there is a big weed.
Click to expand...
The big weed is Chase.

From @Cricket28 post in thread 5:

"Prior to this interview on February 17th , 2010, Merritt spoke with SDSO investigators on the phone to set up the appointment for the interview. Merritt mentioned he had recently gotten out of the hospital with heart problems and had stints ( I believe the correct spelling is stents) placed in his heart. SBCSD investigators believe Merritt mentioned his heart problems in an attempt to sway investigators attention away from him as a suspect as he led investigators to believe he was not physically capable of murdering the McStay family. Merritt mentioned he received medical treatment at Arrowhead Regional Medical Center.

<snipped>

Merritt stated he was left handed and was waiting for his doctor to release him for work. (Note: they're talking about his interview on 2/17/10 when SDSO noticed the injury to his hand which CM claimed he cut it on sheet metal).

SBCSD investigators again believe Merritt was trying to sway SDSO investigators away from believing he was capable of the murders due to his injuries. SBCSD investigators reviewed home video footage of Merritt associating with the McStay family. This footage was found in the McStay residence after their disappearance and was time stamped on a few months prior to their disappearance. In this video footage, Merritt jumped over a fence and climbed a mountain next to the McStay home. Investigators believe this video shows Merritt was in relatively healthy condition and Merritt's statements of numerous injuries were exaggerated for investigators. "

And this video after 45:23 (thanks @Bernina):


Still don't know where the 100k figure comes up.
 
Force Ten said:
Wasn't this due to Mike opening a line of credit posing as EIP?
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Mike posing as EIP and falsifying his income was for a loan application. Heritage Pacific Financial was the Plaintiff. Also named was Jesus Duran. The complaint was filed in May 2010, IIRC. Patrick was not a named party.

The complaint against PM and EIP did not name Mike.
 
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Mica said:
Mike posing as EIP and falsifying his income was for a loan application. Heritage Pacific Financial was the Plaintiff. Also named was Jesus Duran. The complaint was filed in May 2010, IIRC. Patrick was not a named party.

The complaint against PM and EIP did not name Mike.
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Yes I recall that. I thought he did both.
 
Force Ten said:
How do you know objections were cut? I saw some editing but it appeared to be faulty filming.
Click to expand...

It's not the first time. I have been sitting here watching, commenting or making a note of it, and then later when it's on youtube, it's been cut. It's just the one time I wanted to go back and listen more carefully and couldn't.
 
Longtimenoc said:
The heart attack and CHF are some of the many mysteries surrounding CM. Kathy J's role in all this, the lie detector test, the 30k loan, his memory loss in regards to his whereabouts that week and so on. Hope he testifies.
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I wouldn't hold your breath, but if any case I thought that the defendant might, it's this one lol
 
oceanblueeyes said:
I'm not sure what you mean, Missy.

I would expect to see proof of both, since they both have been asserted as being true.

What is attested to in SWs are far more important, and official, than what an attorney may say or any defendant..

Usually at some point in a trial a detective will take the stand to give testimony concerning any SW that may have been gotten, including the probable cause affidavit attached to each one will be shown, and explained.

So respectfully, Missy, imhoo, comparing what an attorney may have said or CM, and what was in any official SW recorded document is like comparing apples to oranges.

This is what I would like to be confirmed through testimony.

1. Joey loaned CM money (30K) to pay off some of his gambling debts.

2. CM created a 100k in medical bill debt due to having heart problems, and it was due to having a heart attack.

If so, both sides should produce the evidence they both ascert to be true.

Proving CM had been given loans by Joey must be proven by the state.

However proving CM encountered such a serious debt of 100K due to having a heart attack would help the defense, and should be proven by them, not just because the attorney or CM said so.

If it was that serious there would be a long period of time he would have been unable to work, due the long time it takes to recover.

Has anyone else, like those who worked with him at MSM or elsewhere, testified about any of that, and how serious it was at the time? Surely the DT would take any opportunity to bring that to light through witness testimony.

In the PH, did CJ, mention it was tough for them financially when CM had his heart attack that landed him in the hospital where he racked up 100K in additional debt?

I think everyone wants both things proven one way or the other.

I don't know why anyone would want one proven only, and not the other. Why not both?

So has anyone else besides his attorney, and CM, himself verified it all happened?

How long was his hospital stay, and how long was he incapacitated at the time, before he recovered where he could get back to doing laborious work like usual?

As an aside: when I see the tv ads for viagra (spelling ?) they caution anyone from taking this particular drug if they have heart problems.

Didn't he just go to Mexico to buy viagra in January before this happened?

Imo
Click to expand...

I think the point is being missed here... something is stated, others ask for proof, when "proof" can't be given, then it must not be true, BUT believing the truth in something or not only depends on how guilty said person thinks Chase is or isn't. Not pointing fingers. I'm looking at both sides of this, and I see a double standard. This is JMO reading the posts. And I'm not saying one is any better than the other.

It should also be stated that BOTH the 30K debt and the heart problems/medical bills have NOT been mentioned at all in the trial. Only here. There is a ton of information or rumours that have been out there for years, some of them may turn out to be true, others not so much.

Unfortunately, the SW's are not always full of correct information. It may be something that the believe at the time, it might be things that they know from experience, and then they are full of information from other's, like the 30k debt from Dan.

If after all these years following cases and reading search warrants, I can see that sometimes the truth is stretched to get what they want. In most cases, I don't blame LE for using what they can and do to get the Search Warrants, look what happened in 2010... Dugal couldn't get search warrants, maybe if he had used some of these comments, he would have gotten them past a judge and this case would have been closed years ago. JMO

Viagra... I thought that as well when I first heard it, that it says not to take if you have a heart condition, but without knowing exactly what the condition is, or what meds he would be on, it's hard to say whether he could or couldn't take it ... or if he followed instructions LOL My Dad's a diabetic... he hasn't completely given up sugar.. some people just don't follow doctor's orders. Could be that he had to go to Mexico because his own doc wouldn't prescribe it. If I'm not mistaken, CHF can cause impotence, whether it's the disease or the medications to treat the disease. JMO
 
graceholl said:
Hi all - some of you will remember me from McStay discussions back in 2013. Just returning to the case now; a lot of threads to get through and am hoping there might be a link to somewhere that gives day-by-day accounts of the trial thus far? TIA!
Click to expand...
Welcome Back! Unfortunately... I think you will have to start a Trial thread #1 :( There may have been another thread in the original McStay forum that we started for that first day or 2.
 
gitana1 said:
What's the specific question? I haven't been following the case.
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Hi @gitana1 ! Thanks for popping in!

I know you haven't been following, so it might be hard to understand it all and no way that you will have the complete information ;-)

From Plo_Koon:
I understand what you're saying, but as devil's advocate, if the prosecution or a detective hears something in court that makes them think, and then that person goes home that night and does some more work and discovers NEW evidence/information -- should the prosecution then just ignore that information and not bring it up in the trial? Even though it may help the jury in their decision?
Click to expand...

In response to my post:
This judge hasn't done a lot things. He doesn't hold court times until 4:30 every day... he doesn't make appointments on his days off, etc. LOL I do think the judge is being fair in the sense that he is allowing time before they finish crossing Smith... he is making allowances for experts to be there on certain dates, or to be able to read transcripts... but it seems that the prosecution is the one saying that Merritt is guilty, and they are still doing reports to prove it? shouldn't it have been completed before this went to trial? Shouldn't they have had a forensic accountant looking at things and filing discovery before the trial started? This judge might be allowing it, but what about the next one's that might be hearing these appeals? I'm curious to know if it may cause an issue down the road.

That's why I would love to have a legal opinion. I'm not a lawyer, I just play one on the internet :D
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As this trial has been going, there has been more than one instance where the prosecution is coming up with new things. And maybe I shouldn't say "new things" because in most cases, I think it's been information that was available, but presenting them in a different way. (if that makes sense?lol) For an example, the lead investigator this past week decided that he would go back and group all cell pings that were similar and near casino's and put them in a chart. He used google maps to get the coordinates. He was allowed to testify about these after it was given to the defense just that morning IIRC. Now the judge did allow them to continue their cross on Monday instead, and put another witness on the stand. We had a forensic accountant that was on the stand one day, overnight did some more "investigating", and came back the next day with new information. This same FA was hired in Dec but the defense got his reports just recently and after the trial started. There is more, but these are just the examples that come to mind LOL Keep in mind that they charged him in 2014 and it is now 2019. And again, I think the judge is being fair under the circumstances, but all these things adding up, it concerns me for appeal processes later if he is convicted!
 
Force Ten said:
The big weed is Chase.

From @Cricket28 post in thread 5:

"Prior to this interview on February 17th , 2010, Merritt spoke with SDSO investigators on the phone to set up the appointment for the interview. Merritt mentioned he had recently gotten out of the hospital with heart problems and had stints ( I believe the correct spelling is stents) placed in his heart. SBCSD investigators believe Merritt mentioned his heart problems in an attempt to sway investigators attention away from him as a suspect as he led investigators to believe he was not physically capable of murdering the McStay family. Merritt mentioned he received medical treatment at Arrowhead Regional Medical Center.

<snipped>

Merritt stated he was left handed and was waiting for his doctor to release him for work. (Note: they're talking about his interview on 2/17/10 when SDSO noticed the injury to his hand which CM claimed he cut it on sheet metal).

SBCSD investigators again believe Merritt was trying to sway SDSO investigators away from believing he was capable of the murders due to his injuries. SBCSD investigators reviewed home video footage of Merritt associating with the McStay family. This footage was found in the McStay residence after their disappearance and was time stamped on a few months prior to their disappearance. In this video footage, Merritt jumped over a fence and climbed a mountain next to the McStay home. Investigators believe this video shows Merritt was in relatively healthy condition and Merritt's statements of numerous injuries were exaggerated for investigators. "

And this video after 45:23 (thanks @Bernina):


Still don't know where the 100k figure comes up.
Click to expand...

what exactly are you looking for @Force Ten? I'm not making the connection to the posts you quoted... what "root" are you trying to get to? LOL
 
Mica said:
Mike posing as EIP and falsifying his income was for a loan application. Heritage Pacific Financial was the Plaintiff. Also named was Jesus Duran. The complaint was filed in May 2010, IIRC. Patrick was not a named party.

The complaint against PM and EIP did not name Mike.
Click to expand...
The BofA one against PM and EIP was from 2009 before this happened, right?
 
missy1974 said:
Hi @gitana1 ! Thanks for popping in!

I know you haven't been following, so it might be hard to understand it all and no way that you will have the complete information ;-)

From Plo_Koon:


In response to my post:



As this trial has been going, there has been more than one instance where the prosecution is coming up with new things. And maybe I shouldn't say "new things" because in most cases, I think it's been information that was available, but presenting them in a different way. (if that makes sense?lol) For an example, the lead investigator this past week decided that he would go back and group all cell pings that were similar and near casino's and put them in a chart. He used google maps to get the coordinates. He was allowed to testify about these after it was given to the defense just that morning IIRC. Now the judge did allow them to continue their cross on Monday instead, and put another witness on the stand. We had a forensic accountant that was on the stand one day, overnight did some more "investigating", and came back the next day with new information. This same FA was hired in Dec but the defense got his reports just recently and after the trial started. There is more, but these are just the examples that come to mind LOL Keep in mind that they charged him in 2014 and it is now 2019. And again, I think the judge is being fair under the circumstances, but all these things adding up, it concerns me for appeal processes later if he is convicted!
Click to expand...

I see. So the evidence was already submitted or available to the defense in raw form but is being packaged differently and allowed to be presented a certain way to the jury?
 
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