CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #46*ARREST*

[Artis]

Discussion of cloth vs plastic tote...Ithink the difficulty with media these days, and showing different media is saying the same thing, is due to the fact that they plagiarized again and again. Not necessarily in their tweets, but in the printed media and afterwards. As to the tweeting, I think it's misinterpretation of what a tote is when they were typing very fast.

The arrest affidavit, and the information that was gleaned later, was that there were plastic balls, black plastic balls from the tote. So therefore, I think it was a hard-sided plastic container.

Indeed, it does take some experience to go through the weeds with the media today when they copy each other stories.

And they don't realize the significance when someone heard as a tote, and in their mind they interpret a tote as a bag without thinking that is a significant difference, and that goes from their brain to their fingers very quickly in a tweet. The definition of tote, especially for women, is usually considered a bag if not put into the correct context. In my opinion

When I was following on the 19th, I did a hashtag for Kelsey versus just one reporter. It gave me a better understanding of what was going on.

When in doubt, the arrest affidavit trumped all. Imho

ETA, the arrest affidavit said that the tote had melted, so therefore the assumption is it was plastic. Below is a screenshot from such.

Thank you. That's where the word "melted" came from.

 

[PommyMommy]

I was just reviewing the Affidavit again and the only descriptions of the blood were from KK with the exception of the results of the bathroom testing CBI did - para 27 which includes blood on the ceiling. I have thought for some time that he attacked her while she was in the bathroom - otherwise how in the world could blood be on that ceiling? I thought I heard other blood was found on the wood floor but can't seem to find that in the Affidavit. Even the blood she told them was on the fireplace was not confirmed in the Affidavit, just that the fireplace she described matched a picture they had. para 70. If there wasn't blood everywhere as she described, why would she embellish that aspect? JMO

If he whipped his shirt off in the bathroom when cleaning up, it could have cast blood onto the ceiling. Maybe? I don't know...
MOO

 

[oviedo]

If he whipped his shirt off in the bathroom when cleaning up, it could have cast blood onto the ceiling. Maybe? I don't know...
MOO

That's a good thought - but my, it would have to have been pretty bloody for cast off like that? I watched a netflix documentary that dealt with blood spatter. If they truly have all this blood evidence, they may be able to recreate the exact motions that caused her death possibly. JMO.

 

[Julia966]

That's a good thought - but my, it would have to have been pretty bloody for cast off like that? I watched a netflix documentary that dealt with blood spatter. If they truly have all this blood evidence, they may be able to recreate the exact motions that caused her death possibly. JMO.

I'm not sure they do. It looks like there's spots here and there, across at least three rooms, but KK cleaned up most of what would be visible.

 

[MsBetsy]

I found the use of the term "bag" to be confusing, as well. I wasn't sure if it was a black plastic container or a duffel bag (or both). It was the finding of melted plastic that confirmed hard plastic container or box, imo. I didn't look at your link and can't recall if KK said that during the fire the container had burned away or melted before she said she saw the word she used to describe what would have been Kelsey's body.

I think the "heap" she observed was probably a combination of the melted down plastic and whatever was left of the body.
It was pretty stupid for PF to burn the whole container with the body in it, if that's what he did.
Hopefully it will make it much easier for LE to find the body, if what they are looking for is a large clump (my own word) of melted down plastic merged with remnants of bones or ash from the body. Imo

 

[susiQ]

DBM:answered

 

[susiQ]

The underneath some chairs catches my attention a bit:

Did Slater mean on the floor under the chairs?

Or did he mean on the actual underside of the chair like the bottom of it.

If it was on the underside of the chair it’s self, it would almost make me wonder if the blood spatter came up from the floor?

As they say, "the Devil is in the details," and unfortunately we're not being given all the details

 

[SandyQLS]

Thread 39 page 106, Defense questioning CBI Slater:

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Slater confirming Kenney brought an aluminum bat the third time, which he agrees (with the defense) was the closest she came to committing the crime. Defense points out she didn’t once warm Kelsey Berreth about what was happening. @KOAA

*

From Thread 39 page 85

Deceased/Not Found - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #39 *ARREST*

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV 36s36 seconds ago
Slater says Kenney came back about a week after the Oct. 15 incident. She brought a bat from home, parked outside Kelsey’s home & waited. Kenney realized she couldn’t do it, left the property and says she drove past Kelsey to Frazee’s residence. @KOAA

<modsnip: "chicken coop" was social media rumor>

 

[ab01]

Question for@gitana1 or any other verified attorney.

Would the prosecutor have sorted out statements that they could only verify by supporting evidence and that with which kk said and couldn’t be corroborated?

IE would the affidavit be made of facts that the state was positive they could prove?

Or would they be more just trying to tell a likely story based on witnesses statements?

Just curious of their thinking when they put an affidavit together. And how much they likely would have verified at that stage of prosecution

Thx

 

[InvSmith]

The underneath some chairs catches my attention a bit:

Did Slater mean on the floor under the chairs?

Or did he mean on the actual underside of the chair like the bottom of it.

If it was on the underside of the chair it’s self, it would almost make me wonder if the blood spatter came up from the floor?

This usually means the splatter came from the impact. There would be blood on the flood and splatter on the underside of chairs and on the chair legs. Since, the blood was cleaned up, you just get blood on the groves on the floor and KK missed the blood on the underside of the chairs. Ultimately, it all means the crime scene was majorly tampered with and the person that tampered was brought back into the scence.

 

[noel leon]

"I feel safe around PF now" or something to that effect, in relation to her gun?

Was this not texted to CB? If so , MOO it is not legitimate.

 

[InvSmith]

I was just reviewing the Affidavit again and the only descriptions of the blood were from KK with the exception of the results of the bathroom testing CBI did - para 27 which includes blood on the ceiling. I have thought for some time that he attacked her while she was in the bathroom - otherwise how in the world could blood be on that ceiling? I thought I heard other blood was found on the wood floor but can't seem to find that in the Affidavit. Even the blood she told them was on the fireplace was not confirmed in the Affidavit, just that the fireplace she described matched a picture they had. para 70. If there wasn't blood everywhere as she described, why would she embellish that aspect? JMO

With embellishment comes more attention and insertion in the investigation. Once, she obtain a lawyer and received a deal she was the center of attention.

 

[ab01]

Was this not texted to CB? If so , MOO it is not legitimate.

If I recall correctly, I believe it was texted to cb from kB phone late on the 22nd. Personally I feel that it was sent by PF. But some opinions may differ

 

[Artis]

Yah that would be too much to take, although with all the blood evidence in the condo, I think it’s highly unlikely moo

Blood from the front of the condo (fireplace) into the kitchen, on the ceiling, on toys, books, the sofa, the undersides of chairs and seeped through floorboards. One blow with the bat and she would have been down on the floor. He had to have struck her repeatedly for blood to have been splattered to so far and wide. No way she survived that.

 

[InvSmith]

I too am sitting in such a space right now and the home I am at, has all of the square feet on one level (no loft) and I just cannot see it either and this place is roomier but small and average. Not without far more damage and blood seeping into things one would never be able to stop or think about nor clean up. We also have Baby K allegedly in a downstairs room as well as part of that square footage. I could go on at length sitting in such a space at why I cannot see it and the reasons it could not be done. I highly recommend people sit in a home or apartment of that size and try to picture it.

Maybe once, maybe to incapacitate or with her incapacitated beforehand and that is even too much for me to believe. And then to have a quick and fantastic clean-up job? Nope, not me. Someone else is missing that helped or it took longer or it happened elsewhere, etc.

Orrr..., LE has more evidence from that scene than any of us can imagine. A dent in the floor, a broken mirror, blood down inside the TV frame, just some examples, a broken window, a dented door, a splintered cabinet... Then blood specifically pointed out by KK left on purpose on the fireplace and switch (to help them find him lol), but that's it? Nope. It sounds almost staged. And LE and the B family did not see things like this, just noted some things? Yet a bat was used?

Unless there is much they have that we do not know about. And much more noticed than we have been told, etc. And much more info shared by KK than we know. And more days and/or people involved.

I think personally where I am at today one would have to just haul out half the things in here and try to call it a robbery, even likely the toaster and appliances... the living room chair and sofa, the books... The computer...

Jmo but I just cannot see it either. I do not know what is missing but something is at the very least...

My guess would be he grabbed her hit her head on something hard even the floor. Injured her, then placed her where he wanted and hit her with the bat. Reason being this was a personal killing. Mostly, these are up close and personal. I don't believe the blindfold story.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Question for@gitana1 or any other verified attorney.

Would the prosecutor have sorted out statements that they could only verify by supporting evidence and that with which kk said and couldn’t be corroborated?

IE would the affidavit be made of facts that the state was positive they could prove?

Or would they be more just trying to tell a likely story based on witnesses statements?

Just curious of their thinking when they put an affidavit together. And how much they likely would have verified at that stage of prosecution

Thx

I am not Gitana1, but she said upthread to look at the arrest affidavit closely. At the end of some of the sentences, they made a comment whether they thought the comment that she made was true or false based on what other information they had to corroborate or not. I'll let her follow up with us.

 

[SandyQLS]

I have not seen it specifically stated she put the bags beside KB's car. I don't see that wording in the timeline either. Can you please post a link?

From Thread 39 page 84:
Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV1m1 minute ago
Kenney did find a tooth but threw it away. When she was done, she put the trash bags out front, got her car and then picked up the trash before going to Sonic. @KOAA

*
Thread 40, page 13, Feb 19, 2019, continuing conversation after Prelim ended:

Deceased/Not Found - CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #40 *ARREST*

“She was hoping that law enforcement would find them (KK & PF) sooner, and she would be contacted sooner,” Slater said.

After cleaning up, Lee said she put the trash bags (full fof KBs blood)near where Berreth’s Corolla was parked, loaded them into her car, and went to Sonic. ..."

@skyedaze
seems to be quoting a media source, but poster did not provide link.

*
The source is 9News.com:

Courtroom updates: Preliminary hearing for Patrick Frazee, who is accused of killing Kelsey Berreth

"... After cleaning up, Lee said she put the trash bags near where Berreth’s Corolla was parked, loaded them into her car, and went to Sonic. From there, she returned to Frazee’s property. ..."

 

[crhedBngr]

Deleted.

 

[Elley Mae]

Was this not texted to CB? If so , MOO it is not legitimate.

10:10 a.m.: Prosecutors asked Adams about a "black tote" that Frazee had in his possession shown on one surveillance video.

11 a.m.: Cheryl also said that Kelsey told her it was "nice to have her gun back" and that "she felt safe now," according to Slater. He learned from Cheryl that Frazee took Kelsey's gun after they had an argument over finances on Jan. 1, 2017. During that argument, Berreth allegedly said "Maybe I'd be better off dead" and pointed the gun at herself. Slater says Berreth got the gun back on Nov. 22, 2018.

Accomplice: Kelsey Berreth was blindfolded, beaten, burned by fiance

 

[Artis]

I would like to address a statement about hickory bats that was made in the last thread. Somebody claimed that hickory doesn't burn well. I have wood working background and when I make cabinets I often use kiln dried hickory,cherry,oak,maple etc. I usually use the scraps for kindling for campfires. Hickory is a very hard hardwood, As such it tends to burn slow because of the tight grain. But it does burn hot and for a long duration, If an accelerant was in fact used, It would not surprise me to learn that it would likely completely burn. As bats made out of hickory are made from straight grain kiln dried wooden Blanks. I have turned a few myself. MOO

Hickory Firewood

"Hickory wood is a heavy and dense hardwood. It dries fairly quickly since the dense wood doesn’t hold a lot of moisture. It can be tough to split, but not always beyond splitting by hand.

Although many people love burning hickory, there are some who prefer other woods over hickory just because hickory firewood can be more difficult to process. Hickory is harder to saw and split than a lot of other hardwoods like oak. Hickory may outperform oak in a wood stove, but for some, not well enough to justify the work. Another disadvantage of hickory firewood is that bugs really like it. It is not uncommon for a hickory woodpile to have a lot of sawdust, or bugdust from insects boring into it."

Was it ever mentioned that the bat used to kill Kelsey was a wooden bat? KK had previously brought an aluminum bat to kill her. It's possible that it was that bat that used. Aluminum melts at 1200 degrees. As someone who's spent a lot of time looking at wild fires and what burns and what doesn't, I've seen lots of melted engine blocks and wheels. Maybe we'll get lucky and there will be some aluminum in that landfill.