GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #12

[FinePrint]

View attachment 172214 LS boat ramp is marked and the other location is the spot that has been pointed out to me by friends on that lake.

Ok great, now I see what you are talking about. Both sites are close to the dam. Is it the thinking she was dumped more in the middle where it is deeper and floated closer to shore to the location you have marked?

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Anyone can learn to behead someone but knowing how to cover your tracks at a crime scene as well as these killers did tells me 1 of them was either military or police at 1 point. I have a few friends who are police and they said the same thing. To answer your question do I like police? Some police I like and some I don't some I trust and some I don't. DNR are considered police FYI they just work for the state .

 

[FinePrint]

I'm starting to think this was not as organized as I formally believed. I've read that the red concrete blocks were placed in a mesh bag, a little smaller than a laundry bag and tied to SDs bound legs with some sort of Para cord or rope.

The red concrete blocks as I am understanding is more of a landscaping type of block rather than a building type of block. Probably the same red concrete block I used for my fire pit. They are about 20-30 pounds each. And from reading some recent post they are ample in the Ds neighborhood.

Here's the thing. I myself use a mesh bag, probably about 24x24 inches to store my anchor and anchor rope in for my boat. When I get to my location on the water it is nice to have it all contained and ready to pull out of the bag to anchor into position. When I'm done in that spot I pull up the anchor line and nicely wrap it into the bag as the anchor is coming up. The anchor and the line area able to drain and not get mildew because it is within a mesh bag.

Now I like to think I'm clever but I bet I'm not the only one who operates this way with their anchor....

So these items are already readily available on the boat that was used and the red landscaping block is readily available within the confines the Ds neighborhood. The only thing left now is the knife.

Does anyone on here know of a link or a interview, anything which talks about the knife other than it was large? Has there been any discussion on whether any large knifes were missing from say a butchers block in the house. I can tell you that I would not know if a knife was missing from my elderly mothers home. I don't keep track of her knifes and would only be able to tell if one was missing if there was an empty spot in a butchers block.

What I'm saying is that the knife could have easily been from the Ds home or was already on the boat. As someone who has had several boats I can tell you that there is always a large knife on my boat in case we had to cut loose a stuck anchor or whatever. A knife on a boat is a must to me.

If someone was to plan this out wouldn't they have used heavier cinder blocks or concrete blocks? There would be no need to utilize a mesh bag to contain 2 lighter red landscaping blocks? Sounds like a rig to me.

They utilized what was available to them.....

All of he necessary items were already easily available to the killer. The boat is is were the answers are...The boat carried the mesh bag, rope and possibly the knife. The boat carried SD body. Who has access to a boat and knows that particular lake that knows the Ds?

 

[kay74]

So someone strong would have carried SD to the boat or dragged her?

 

[FinePrint]

View attachment 172214 LS boat ramp is marked and the other location is the spot that has been pointed out to me by friends on that lake.

It is fairly easy to assume that who ever did this, if not already living on the lake and having a boat would have used the LS public ramp and trailerd their boat. Easy route to the Ds house and easy route back to the ramp and easy to dump SDs body just before leaving.

 

[K.jill]

If I understand correctly sheriff Sills believes there was another crime scene where they were killed and Russell’s body was returned to the house and he was decapitated there?
Is it possible the other crime scene was a boat? That could explain why that crime scene has not been located.
I keep trying to make the puzzle pieces fit and they just do not.
Hard to think of a scenario where someone would get them out to a boat early in the morning before eating breakfast. With him still in his nightclothes. And her hair was in his hand. If he was killed elsewhere would the hair fall out of his hand if he was being carried back to the house?
Surely if the crime scene was anywhere on the grounds at their house it would have been found.
Has Sills ever said if he thinks the location they were murdered could be on their property and there was no evidence there to show it?

 

[FinePrint]

This is what I consider to be a cinder block

This is what I'm thinking is the type of concrete block used

 

[FinePrint]

This is similar to the mesh bag I use on my boat

 

[deugirtni]

I'm starting to think this was not as organized as I formally believed. I've read that the red concrete blocks were placed in a mesh bag, a little smaller than a laundry bag and tied to SDs bound legs with some sort of Para cord or rope.

The red concrete blocks as I am understanding is more of a landscaping type of block rather than a building type of block. Probably the same red concrete block I used for my fire pit. They are about 20-30 pounds each. And from reading some recent post they are ample in the Ds neighborhood.

Here's the thing. I myself use a mesh bag, probably about 24x24 inches to store my anchor and anchor rope in for my boat. When I get to my location on the water it is nice to have it all contained and ready to pull out of the bag to anchor into position. When I'm done in that spot I pull up the anchor line and nicely wrap it into the bag as the anchor is coming up. The anchor and the line area able to drain and not get mildew because it is within a mesh bag.

Now I like to think I'm clever but I bet I'm not the only one who operates this way with their anchor....

So these items are already readily available on the boat that was used and the red landscaping block is readily available within the confines the Ds neighborhood. The only thing left now is the knife.

Does anyone on here know of a link or a interview, anything which talks about the knife other than it was large? Has there been any discussion on whether any large knifes were missing from say a butchers block in the house. I can tell you that I would not know if a knife was missing from my elderly mothers home. I don't keep track of her knifes and would only be able to tell if one was missing if there was an empty spot in a butchers block.

What I'm saying is that the knife could have easily been from the Ds home or was already on the boat. As someone who has had several boats I can tell you that there is always a large knife on my boat in case we had to cut loose a stuck anchor or whatever. A knife on a boat is a must to me.

If someone was to plan this out wouldn't they have used heavier cinder blocks or concrete blocks? There would be no need to utilize a mesh bag to contain 2 lighter red landscaping blocks? Sounds like a rig to me.

They utilized what was available to them.....

All of he necessary items were already easily available to the killer. The boat is is were the answers are...The boat carried the mesh bag, rope and possibly the knife. The boat carried SD body. Who has access to a boat and knows that particular lake that knows the Ds?

Agreed (about the possibility that this was more unplanned than planned), this is what I was saying yesterday (below). I was thinking perhaps the laundry bag could have been removed from the D home. We now know that SS believes the towels that were used to soak up the blood in the garage were from the D's own bathroom. Those colorful laces that were used are definitely not the type one would buy if they were planning on using them to tie concrete blocks to for the purpose of keeping a dead body submerged. And yes, I'm wondering if the D's own knife was used as well. Or their own gun in the event Mr.D was shot.

Could someone (known to them, so no forced entry - perhaps even someone with a well developed 'sense of entitlement'(?), perhaps after being handed many good things in life(?)) have come to the home, to perhaps make some kind of proposal, which was ultimately declined, which invoked rage, and then a bunch of afterthoughts on how to best deal with it to not get caught?

The Ds have the red ones on their own property? Do you have evidence of that? If so, I wonder if a couple were missing from the landscape, or were there 'extras' in the garage perhaps?
The thing about the regular heavy-duty grey ones - they aren't for show.. so it would be unlikely to see them, but yet would serve this particular purpose better, *if* the murderer had actually purchased them to do this. If the Ds have these on their property, then it might seem more of a spur of the moment afterthought type of thing, rather than a planned thing?

 

[FinePrint]

I did find this red cinder block at HD. It is 38 pounds

 

[FinePrint]

Agreed (about the possibility that this was more unplanned than planned), this is what I was saying yesterday (below). I was thinking perhaps the laundry bag could have been removed from the D home. We now know that SS believes the towels that were used to soak up the blood in the garage were from the D's own bathroom. Those colorful laces that were used are definitely not the type one would buy if they were planning on using them to tie concrete blocks to for the purpose of keeping a dead body submerged. And yes, I'm wondering if the D's own knife was used as well. Or their own gun in the event Mr.D was shot.

Could someone (known to them, so no forced entry - perhaps even someone with a well developed 'sense of entitlement'(?), perhaps after being handed many good things in life(?)) have come to the home, to perhaps make some kind of proposal, which was ultimately declined, which invoked rage, and then a bunch of afterthoughts on how to best deal with it to not get caught?

Agreed to all but I'm missing something here. What is this about colorful laces?

 

[deugirtni]

Agreed to all but I'm missing something here. What is this about colorful laces?

@dancinunderthemoon first brought it to my attention and then I saw that I had missed it on the autopsy report:

OMG< and to top off their stooge activity, they used multi colored 550 paracord..........
Kaleidoscope - 550 Paracord
great for fishing, camping

• Versatile: Use the 550 paracord for survival gear, shoe laces, belts, weaves, wraps, bracelets, belts, lanyards, decorations, fishing line, snares, and sutures

So lets see if the blue mesh bags are boy scout stuff too

I think they used every single thing they had already, messed up and had to leave him lying there

and FWIW, a cheese slicer is a garrote

From SD's autopsy report:

"Received within 2 plastic bags, which were secured at the scene by law enforcement, are two red concrete blocks enclosed within a blue mesh bag. The normally open end of the mesh bag is closed with a knot as well as a white cord. Tightly secured just distal to this knot is a multi-colored para-cord, which is secured twice around the bag and contains a knot adjacent to the bag as well as a second knot approximately 3/4 inches distal to this. Emanating from this second knot are two pieces of this para-cord, one which measures 4 inches in length and has a relatively clean cut edge with internal strings visible and a second free floating portion which measures 4 5/8 inch in length and has a frayed edge with multiple internal strings visible. These are released to Detective Harper of the Putnam County Sheriff's Office at the completion of the autopsy."

 

[deugirtni]

Anyone can learn to behead someone but knowing how to cover your tracks at a crime scene as well as these killers did tells me 1 of them was either military or police at 1 point. I have a few friends who are police and they said the same thing. To answer your question do I like police? Some police I like and some I don't some I trust and some I don't. DNR are considered police FYI they just work for the state .

Anyone can *learn* to behead someone, however, it's not like one would be able to get a lot of practice at beheading a human being. I was looking a bit at some anatomy pics in conjunction with the autopsy report of RD, and it seems like the cut line would have had to have been quite precise for it to have been said to have been a clean cut line, etc. Very bizarre. Is there anyone close to the Ds whose education, knowledge, experience, or occupation might enlighten them about this type of thing? (I'm assuming animals that one might hunt would be vastly different from beheading a human!)

Autopsy report for RD:
PATHOLOGIC DIAGNOSES:
A. Postmortem decapitation:
...
3. Transection of the pharnyx with absence of the epiglottis and hyoid bone. The thyroid cartilage is intact.
4. Transection of the vertebral body of C5
5. Transection of the spinal cord
....
EXTERNAL EXAMINATION:
....
Postmortem decapitation occurred at the base of the neck. In this cross-section of the neck, subcutaneous adipose tissue and muscle are visible as well as the superior edge of the thyroid cartilage, the trachea, a clean cut through the C-5 vertebral body, and the spinal cord.
-----

 

[FinePrint]

Anyone can *learn* to behead someone, however, it's not like one would be able to get a lot of practice at beheading a human being. I was looking a bit at some anatomy pics in conjunction with the autopsy report of RD, and it seems like the cut line would have had to have been quite precise for it to have been said to have been a clean cut line, etc. Very bizarre. Is there anyone close to the Ds whose education, knowledge, experience, or occupation might enlighten them about this type of thing? (I'm assuming animals that one might hunt would be vastly different from beheading a human!)

Autopsy report for RD:
PATHOLOGIC DIAGNOSES:
A. Postmortem decapitation:
...
3. Transection of the pharnyx with absence of the epiglottis and hyoid bone. The thyroid cartilage is intact.
4. Transection of the vertebral body of C5
5. Transection of the spinal cord
....
EXTERNAL EXAMINATION:
....
Postmortem decapitation occurred at the base of the neck. In this cross-section of the neck, subcutaneous adipose tissue and muscle are visible as well as the superior edge of the thyroid cartilage, the trachea, a clean cut through the C-5 vertebral body, and the spinal cord.
-----
View attachment 172288

View attachment 172289

C5 is just where SS described the cut was made as if they used RDs shirt collar as a template.

 

[FinePrint]

SS said in a interview that decapitating a person would be no different from a hunter cutting off a head of a deer.

The knife would have had to be very sharp. I would say someone who knows how to keep a knife sharp. A hunter, a chef, my freaky uncle who spends his days in his basement sharpening knifes an loading his own shot gun shells.....I don't know.

 

[OTPTarheel2018]

Where would a police officer acquire the knowledge of how to decapitate a human? I used to be in law enforcement, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that we never learned how to cut someone's head off. Do you like police?

I would suggest that a person who could navigate the lake well and knew how to decapitate a person would probably fall into the hunter/park ranger/fishing guide, etc. 'OTPTarheel2018' suggested Georgia DNR, which seems like a valid line of reasoning to me as well; anyone in that kind of role would most likely have a solid understanding of lake depths, natural spring in-feeds, currents, and underwater structure (maybe even sites where boats have sank or where cars went into the lake).

I'm thinking @hockeyguy33 is thinking LE or former KE with a hunting/ fishing background and possible taxidermy experience.

JMO

 

[kay74]

Where's dancinunderthemoon? She hasn't been here for awhile

 

[OTPTarheel2018]

Where's dancinunderthemoon? She hasn't been here for awhile

Last seen by me in the Chad Haufler thread...I still think these 2 cases are connected. I've written the screenplay in my head.

JMO

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

SS said in a interview that decapitating a person would be no different from a hunter cutting off a head of a deer.

The knife would have had to be very sharp. I would say someone who knows how to keep a knife sharp. A hunter, a chef, my freaky uncle who spends his days in his basement sharpening knifes an loading his own shot gun shells.....I don't know.

he said it was easier I thought, since a deer neck is thicker and tougher

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Where's dancinunderthemoon? She hasn't been here for awhile

Im here, I guess I dropped some bombs and left......LOL.........Almost ran away, this case is frustrating! But I would love justice for these folks!