OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#44

[Betty P]

This article confirms payment of $20,200 to ALH for securing property. Info is on last page of article.
https://www.chillicothegazette.com/...y-sheriffs-race-among-dirtiest-ohio/92900946/

Here's what the article states:

ALH did receive a $20,200 contract for "securing property" and a $40,000 contract to "preserve evidence" - a combined $60,200. While the commissioners can forgo competitive bid for work up to $100,000 due to an emergency, they have to unanimously agree and note the reason in meeting minutes. While minutes reflect Charles Reader met with commissioners in executive session on May 12 - the day the trailers were towed - there is nothing about forgoing the bid process and no minutes at present show the commissioners approved any contracts from the Rhoden case. A public records request for the contracts was made to the Pike County Sheriff's Office on Oct. 12, but has not been fulfilled.

I couldn't find any mention of a safe at the Rhoden property in Slusher's allegations. I'm inclined to believe it's accurate, but JMO, it's still not clear. Also not that important, JMO, in the big picture.

 

[Loomis124]

This article confirms payment of $20,200 to ALH for securing property. Info is on last page of article.
Pike County sheriff's race among dirtiest in Ohio

Thank you. I couldn't recall where I had seen this.

 

[Loomis124]

Does anyone have an opinion about the following defense's motion filed for GW3 (Billy)? And I'm referring to the request for a psychologist rather than the funding. Thanks.

01/17/2019 DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR APPROPRIATION OF FUNDS FOR A PSYCHOLOGIST FILED Attorney: HAYES, THOMAS F Attorney: COLLINS, MARK C

https://pikecountycpcourt.org/eserv...bj9ZbONR0WI4bhwxHgKJTa9RNHoO7ihVudN-bIej8jBSA

 

[Cool Cats]

Does anyone have an opinion about the following defense's motion filed for GW3 (Billy)? And I'm referring to the request for a psychologist rather than the funding. Thanks.

01/17/2019 DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR APPROPRIATION OF FUNDS FOR A PSYCHOLOGIST FILED Attorney: HAYES, THOMAS F Attorney: COLLINS, MARK C

https://pikecountycpcourt.org/eserv...bj9ZbONR0WI4bhwxHgKJTa9RNHoO7ihVudN-bIej8jBSA

In death penalty cases defendants get 2 death penalty attorneys and money to hire specialists. Evidently one of the specialists that GW3's attorneys want to hire is a psychologist.

It 's impossible to know HOW the defense team plans to use the psycologist. There are many ways a psychologist 's testimony can come into play.

One guess I have goes back to GW3's attorney's comment that he only has a 7th grade education and thus he couldn't be the mastermind.

Maybe the psychologist will testify that GW3 is mentally and emotionally functioning at a 12 year old level and could never commit that of which he is accused.

Wow, guess we wait for trial and find out! Very curious. Thankx for pointing this out.

Angie or GW3----one of them----is getting social security. If it is GW3 then perhaps his "possible disability" would be something a psychologist would address at his trial.

 

[Loomis124]

In death penalty cases defendants get 2 death penalty attorneys and money to hire specialists. Evidently one of the specialists that GW3's attorneys want to hire is a psychologist.

It 's impossible to know HOW the defense team plans to use the psycologist. There are many ways a psychologist 's testimony can come into play.

One guess I have goes back to GW3's attorney's comment that he only has a 7th grade education and thus he couldn't be the mastermind.

Maybe the psychologist will testify that GW3 is mentally and emotionally functioning at a 12 year old level and could never commit that of which he is accused.

Wow, guess we wait for trial and find out! Very curious. Thankx for pointing this out.

Angie or GW3----one of them----is getting social security. If it is GW3 then perhaps his "possible disability" would be something a psychologist would address at his trial.

TY Cool Cats!

I've been researching this, and you summed it up quickly. I am a very detailed person and so wish I could be more like you!

GW3's attorneys also have filed motions for a "Defense Investigator" and a "Defense Mitigation Expert," so it's evident to me where this is headed. JMO

Discovery works both ways, fortunately. The defense has obligations, too.

Mastermind...hmmm. MOO is still FW. Could it be Billy is being set up as the worst of the 4, in which he might be spared the DP because of mental incapacities or mental retardation and thus allow the other 3 the lesser penalties also? JMO

I now wonder if this defense was all a part of "the big plan" discussed at FW's house before the arrests.

From the research I've done, any mental incapacities for GW3 to avoid the DP would have had to be well-documented before he turned 18.

All JMO

Example

https://www.opd.ohio.gov/Portals/0/MotionsManual/MentralR/3 ApprtnFndsConsultDefMRExprt.doc

 

[Loomis124]

Here's what the article states:



I couldn't find any mention of a safe at the Rhoden property in Slusher's allegations. I'm inclined to believe it's accurate, but JMO, it's still not clear. Also not that important, JMO, in the big picture.

Betty, couldn't it be important if robbery also played a role at CRSR's? Thanks.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Yes, it sounds like CR1 used the bank for his money, not the safe. As most homeowners know, having just purchased the home for DR, CR1 wouldn't have a lot of money in the bank.

Also seems doubtful CR1 would be willing to die instead of opening any safe he might have had in his trailer. What would be the point of that? CR1 was a pretty smart guy, the Wagners not so much.

Is this the juvenile records that Angela wants sealed?
(It does not appear any written custody agreement between Hanna Rhoden and Jake Wagner was ever filed in Pike County juvenile court prior to her death) this is copy out of the enquirer news.

 

[Cool Cats]

TY Cool Cats!

I've been researching this, and you summed it up quickly. I am a very detailed person and so wish I could be more like you!

GW3's attorneys also have filed motions for a "Defense Investigator" and a "Defense Mitigation Expert," so it's evident to me where this is headed. JMO

Discovery works both ways, fortunately. The defense has obligations, too.

Mastermind...hmmm. MOO is still FW. Could it be Billy is being set up as the worst of the 4, in which he might be spared the DP because of mental incapacities or mental retardation and thus allow the other 3 the lesser penalties also? JMO

I now wonder if this defense was all a part of "the big plan" discussed at FW's house before the arrests.

From the research I've done, any mental incapacities for GW3 to avoid the DP would have had to be well-documented before he turned 18.

All JMO

Example

https://www.opd.ohio.gov/Portals/0/MotionsManual/MentralR/3 ApprtnFndsConsultDefMRExprt.doc

Very interesting points. As you, I have to wonder if any of GW3's past "educational deficiencies" will be brought up in one or both parts of his trial.

Death Penalty Trials are officially noted as being 2 trials. Guilt phase and sentencing phase ---which means death penalty or life w/o parole.

I wish I could be more like you also, you do good in-depth research. I will be very interested to see what you think when things REALLY get going at the end of this month!

I see GW3's attorney gearing up to provide many mitigating factors to keep GW3 from the death penalty. Diminished mental capacity is a very common and sometimes successful strategy used in DP cases.

If you look you can see some of the motions for the Wagners are for the sentencing phase of the trial....to avoid the DP if they are convicted.

DP attorneys focus on getting their clients LWOP. This is a major objective they deal with. Notice the Wagner Motions being filed that are trying to throw out the DP on grounds it's unconstitutional!

DO you think it's unconstitutional? Sorry. This is a huge can of worms maybe best left alone for now!!!

 

[Loomis124]

Very interesting points. As you, I have to wonder if any of GW3's past "educational deficiencies" will be brought up in one or both parts of his trial.

Death Penalty Trials are officially noted as being 2 trials. Guilt phase and sentencing phase ---which means death penalty or life w/o parole.

I wish I could be more like you also, you do good in-depth research. I will be very interested to see what you think when things REALLY get going at the end of this month!

I see GW3's attorney gearing up to provide many mitigating factors to keep GW3 from the death penalty. Diminished mental capacity is a very common and sometimes successful strategy used in DP cases.

If you look you can see some of the motions for the Wagners are for the sentencing phase of the trial....to avoid the DP if they are convicted.

DP attorneys focus on getting their clients LWOP. This is a major objective they deal with. Notice the Wagner Motions being filed that are trying to throw out the DP on grounds it's unconstitutional!

DO you think it's unconstitutional? Sorry. This is a huge can of worms maybe best left alone for now!!!

Very interesting points. As you, I have to wonder if any of GW3's past "educational deficiencies" will be brought up in one or both parts of his trial.

Death Penalty Trials are officially noted as being 2 trials. Guilt phase and sentencing phase ---which means death penalty or life w/o parole.

I wish I could be more like you also, you do good in-depth research. I will be very interested to see what you think when things REALLY get going at the end of this month!

I see GW3's attorney gearing up to provide many mitigating factors to keep GW3 from the death penalty. Diminished mental capacity is a very common and sometimes successful strategy used in DP cases.

If you look you can see some of the motions for the Wagners are for the sentencing phase of the trial....to avoid the DP if they are convicted.

DP attorneys focus on getting their clients LWOP. This is a major objective they deal with. Notice the Wagner Motions being filed that are trying to throw out the DP on grounds it's unconstitutional!

DO you think it's unconstitutional? Sorry. This is a huge can of worms maybe best left alone for now!!!

I can hardly wait until the next hearings come for all. I have done tons of research over the past week and IT only gets deeper. I shudder to think of what this investigation has uncovered on the 5 Wagners and RN and their roots. And FW's two non-profit businesses, based on what little I have discovered.

My opinion and deepest hope and prayer is, that they are all finally going down, and it has been a long time coming, for all they've done to people over the years. The murders were just the last straw for God and Mankind. It's time for them to meet their worst enemy, and it is none other than themselves, each one. JMO

 

[Loomis124]

Is this the juvenile records that Angela wants sealed?
(It does not appear any written custody agreement between Hanna Rhoden and Jake Wagner was ever filed in Pike County juvenile court prior to her death) this is copy out of the enquirer news.

Whose juvenile records are you referring to? AWs motion was for the juvenile records for State's witnesses, IIRC.

 

[Loomis124]

Very interesting points. As you, I have to wonder if any of GW3's past "educational deficiencies" will be brought up in one or both parts of his trial.

Death Penalty Trials are officially noted as being 2 trials. Guilt phase and sentencing phase ---which means death penalty or life w/o parole.

I wish I could be more like you also, you do good in-depth research. I will be very interested to see what you think when things REALLY get going at the end of this month!

I see GW3's attorney gearing up to provide many mitigating factors to keep GW3 from the death penalty. Diminished mental capacity is a very common and sometimes successful strategy used in DP cases.

If you look you can see some of the motions for the Wagners are for the sentencing phase of the trial....to avoid the DP if they are convicted.

DP attorneys focus on getting their clients LWOP. This is a major objective they deal with. Notice the Wagner Motions being filed that are trying to throw out the DP on grounds it's unconstitutional!

DO you think it's unconstitutional? Sorry. This is a huge can of worms maybe best left alone for now!!!

No, I do not think it's unconstitutional. I believe we owe our Creator more than we do the Constitution. 8 human lives taken. Premeditated for months, if not years, killed worse than animals, dogs left alive while humans were shot to death, DR all around her head, CRSR 9 N I N E times, GR gun put to his head and shot, Hanna with a newborn beside her, Hannah G right after nursing, FR a young Daddy of two, and CRJR, a 16 year old. Then, as if they just had to get ONE more, they (think) they go out in a blaze of glory as they drop by and shoot KR on their way back to FWs. Cold blooded killers, evil to the very core, to act as if nothing ever happened and tell lie after lie after lie to deceive. Unconstitutional? Not in my opinion. Thanks, CC. All just my opinion.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Very interesting points. As you, I have to wonder if any of GW3's past "educational deficiencies" will be brought up in one or both parts of his trial.

Death Penalty Trials are officially noted as being 2 trials. Guilt phase and sentencing phase ---which means death penalty or life w/o parole.

I wish I could be more like you also, you do good in-depth research. I will be very interested to see what you think when things REALLY get going at the end of this month!

I see GW3's attorney gearing up to provide many mitigating factors to keep GW3 from the death penalty. Diminished mental capacity is a very common and sometimes successful strategy used in DP cases.

If you look you can see some of the motions for the Wagners are for the sentencing phase of the trial....to avoid the DP if they are convicted.

DP attorneys focus on getting their clients LWOP. This is a major objective they deal with. Notice the Wagner Motions being filed that are trying to throw out the DP on grounds it's unconstitutional!

DO you think it's unconstitutional? Sorry. This is a huge can of worms maybe best left alone for now!!!

JMO, They did claim that GW3 was crazy to get his social security! Don’t you think that FW going to do the same with her baby, GW3 was nothing more than a lazy bum getting a free ride off our hard earned tax money.

 

[StrangeOne]

These words are inadequate. I'm sorry you and your family had to endure what you did and continue to, as those experiences no doubt left their mark on each of your lives.

Thank you for sharing your informed thoughts and opinions with us and for your genuine care and concern. It really comes through in your writing. I can tell you have a huge heart and love for people.

Just some thoughts in response, and please don't take these as a challenge to anything you wrote. They are absolutely not intended that way.

As far as abuse on both sides, I'm not sure we've seen evidence of abuse within the Rhoden family. As you said, there is plenty of evidence of a love for each other and for life. One can look at pot use as abusing a substance, and while legal true currently in some states, it is debatable whether its use causes harm to the user or to those around that person. Also, to my knowledge, we don't have any evidence that the Rs used pot.

There is evidence of rape, as Jake was well outside the legal age limits when he began a sexual relationship with HR. (Charges for which he now stands accused.)

I don't know of proof of abuse on either side, aside from the rape charge. Granted, severe abuse goes on all the time without "evidence" to those outside of the situation, such as a police report. I do think it's quite possible that abuse was present and ongoing within the W family. However, I also think it's possible that there wasn't abuse. The W parents, even with mama F's resources, had been involved previously with felony theft on what I consider to be a large scale. It seems they didn't need to steal with mama F's resources available, or at least her job offers available to them.

I think we also have to consider that there may not have been abuse in the W home. It's possible that the right blend of whatever science has yet to be able to explain (genetic coding, wiring...) collided with hideously disastrous consequences. Sometimes people who had many advantages in childhood and who grew up in a loving home without abuse inexplicably choose to do monstrous things.

For those of us who have compassion for others and possess the ability to feel true emotions and empathy, their actions don't compute. So, as rational people we try to look for reasons to answer the question, "What caused them to make these choices?" Often, there is a long-standing history of abuse within the family, frequently spanning generations. But sometimes we ask that question and the answer is simply because they wanted to. It's not couched in any obvious abuse or mental illness. As hard as that is for the rest of us to grapple with and make sense of, it does happen.

I'm certain at trial that the defense attorneys will proffer much evidence of abuse within the Ws, in the penalty phase anyway. That is their duty to present mitigating facts. But I doubt if we'll ever know the real truth as to whether or not abuse occurred.

And they'll probably smear the Rs. But the Rs aren't here to refute those assertions. I think the best we have to go off of there is prior actions, surviving family, and, perhaps, social media. They all seem to indicate a multi-generational family, dedicated to each other and to living honorably and harmoniously within their community.

It might be that the Ws just couldn't stand not getting their way. The Ws all lived together they could have seen the loss of custody as losing her completely. In their minds they believe they had to do this horrible thing to keep SW with them. They see themselves as being in the right...a twisted heros kinda thing. This is my own thoughts or even experiences. I come from a clannish people if you were to travel in the Appalachian areas you will see clusters of house close together. Odds are they are all related somehow. If we lost custody of one of our children it would be devastating to everyone. In no way am I saying we would murder anyone over custody but the Ws were different weren't they? They didn't just live close to each other they all lived under the same roof. Something in their make up prevented them from separating from one another. Many families may live next door to each other like the Rhodes but they did get their own places. The Ws even sitting in jail waiting for their day in court think they did what was right for their family. It would be interesting to try and find out at which point they became twisted wouldn't it? Isn't there actions being taken by the Ws to keep the other grandchild away from the mother?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

It might be that the Ws just couldn't stand not getting their way. The Ws all lived together they could have seen the loss of custody as losing her completely. In their minds they believe they had to do this horrible thing to keep SW with them. They see themselves as being in the right...a twisted heros kinda thing. This is my own thoughts or even experiences. I come from a clannish people if you were to travel in the Appalachian areas you will see clusters of house close together. Odds are they are all related somehow. If we lost custody of one of our children it would be devastating to everyone. In no way am I saying we would murder anyone over custody but the Ws were different weren't they? They didn't just live close to each other they all lived under the same roof. Something in their make up prevented them from separating from one another. Many families may live next door to each other like the Rhodes but they did get their own places. The Ws even sitting in jail waiting for their day in court think they did what was right for their family. It would be interesting to try and find out at which point they became twisted wouldn't it? Isn't there actions being taken by the Ws to keep the other grandchild away from the mother?

Yes, it sure would be very interesting to understand at what point in the W's lives their thinking became so twisted that they felt justified in murdering 8 people. It would also be interesting to understand at what generation did things begin to "go off the rails."

 

[StrangeOne]

Yes, it sure would be very interesting to understand at what point in the W's lives their thinking became so twisted that they felt justified in murdering 8 people. It would also be interesting to understand at what generation did things begin to "go off the rails."

If I had to guess it would be with AW and GW. Though both mothers assisted them in forging documents didn't they? We are thinking it was AW or her hubby who was the driving force right? But what if it was the both of them together? The two of them are poison and it just flowed down hill into their sons.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

No, I do not think it's unconstitutional. I believe we owe our Creator more than we do the Constitution. 8 human lives taken. Premeditated for months, if not years, killed worse than animals, dogs left alive while humans were shot to death, DR all around her head, CRSR 9 N I N E times, GR gun put to his head and shot, Hanna with a newborn beside her, Hannah G right after nursing, FR a young Daddy of two, and CRJR, a 16 year old. Then, as if they just had to get ONE more, they (think) they go out in a blaze of glory as they drop by and shoot KR on their way back to FWs. Cold blooded killers, evil to the very core, to act as if nothing ever happened and tell lie after lie after lie to deceive. Unconstitutional? Not in my opinion. Thanks, CC. All just my opinion.

All great points! I’m not sure that we know that KR was shot on the the defendant’s way back to FW’s. I’m sure, I’m time, the timeline will be telling. I, however, lean towards KR being the first victim, for multiple reasons. JMHO.

 

[Betty P]

Very interesting points. As you, I have to wonder if any of GW3's past "educational deficiencies" will be brought up in one or both parts of his trial.

Death Penalty Trials are officially noted as being 2 trials. Guilt phase and sentencing phase ---which means death penalty or life w/o parole.

I wish I could be more like you also, you do good in-depth research. I will be very interested to see what you think when things REALLY get going at the end of this month!

I see GW3's attorney gearing up to provide many mitigating factors to keep GW3 from the death penalty. Diminished mental capacity is a very common and sometimes successful strategy used in DP cases.

If you look you can see some of the motions for the Wagners are for the sentencing phase of the trial....to avoid the DP if they are convicted.

DP attorneys focus on getting their clients LWOP. This is a major objective they deal with. Notice the Wagner Motions being filed that are trying to throw out the DP on grounds it's unconstitutional!

DO you think it's unconstitutional? Sorry. This is a huge can of worms maybe best left alone for now!!!

I'm not sure it was ever confirmed about the fight between GWIII and CRsr when GWIII was supposed to have said that. Everything is so sketch with everything in this case...

Sketchy because there are so many rumors that have floated around the internet and social media, most of which are untrue. I'll be so glad when these trials finally get underway.

All DP defense attorneys file the same motions. It's part of how they do their job. It's not anything specific to this case, its just the groundwork you lay to get your client LWOP instead of the DP.

 

[Betty P]

Does anyone have an opinion about the following defense's motion filed for GW3 (Billy)? And I'm referring to the request for a psychologist rather than the funding. Thanks.

01/17/2019 DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR APPROPRIATION OF FUNDS FOR A PSYCHOLOGIST FILED Attorney: HAYES, THOMAS F Attorney: COLLINS, MARK C

https://pikecountycpcourt.org/eserv...bj9ZbONR0WI4bhwxHgKJTa9RNHoO7ihVudN-bIej8jBSA

You're right! It sounds very much like they're planning on some sort of psych defense. JMO, that means his attorneys think he committed one or more of the murders. Maybe it's another standard motion DP attorneys file for the sentencing phase.

Perhaps they plan to argue that GW3 has psych issues, perhaps impulse control, problems with anger management that didn't prevent him from following through on the plans.

ETA: This also could indicate the various W defendants are not on the same page. Billy's attorneys are willing to use a psych defense, but Fredericka wants to wage a PR campaign implying they're an upstanding religious family that wouldn't get involved in murders.

I'm trying to recall, will have to check, but some of AW's motions also indicated a different strategy than the others.

 

[Dudly]

You're right! It sounds very much like they're planning on some sort of psych defense. JMO, that means his attorneys think he committed one or more of the murders. Maybe it's another standard motion DP attorneys file for the sentencing phase.

Perhaps they plan to argue that GW3 has psych issues, perhaps impulse control, problems with anger management that didn't prevent him from following through on the plans.

ETA: This also could indicate the various W defendants are not on the same page. Billy's attorneys are willing to use a psych defense, but Fredericka wants to wage a PR campaign implying they're an upstanding religious family that wouldn't get involved in murders.

I'm trying to recall, will have to check, but some of AW's motions also indicated a different strategy than the others.

I think when the trials are starting, it may be every W for them self. I can see GWIV saying he was coerced into getting involved because it was family. I can see GWIII failing all the psychological tests the Defense Psychologist gives him and then saying he is incapable of knowing right from wrong or some such excuse. I think JW and AW will go the route of blaming the Rs and saying they were "saving" S from perceived evil... JMO only

 

[Betty P]

I think when the trials are starting, it may be every W for them self. I can see GWIV saying he was coerced into getting involved because it was family. I can see GWIII failing all the psychological tests the Defense Psychologist gives him and then saying he is incapable of knowing right from wrong or some such excuse. I think JW and AW will go the route of blaming the Rs and saying they were "saving" S from perceived evil... JMO only

Probably. Our first indication will be in how Fred Wagner handles her case. She and Rita's cases will probably be resolved before the others. I'm guessing FW will deny family involvement in the murders. She may acknowledge trying to do something with the custody documents, but will claim it had nothing to do with the murders.

Otherwise, she's going to make the prosecution prove their case.

Prosecution and defense will have had nearly 2 months to share evidence, strategize and work something out WRT the processing of these cases going forward. I wonder what they've worked out?

ETA: Someone is going to use the argument that W's were not involved and the Rhodens were so terrible they had dozens of people wanting to kill them.