GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #70

[TridentBlu]

Wow, just wow. I finished the audio last night.

I now do think the girls were killed at Cervi. For someone who cares so much what others think, it makes absolutely no sense to make that part up.

I do think CW covered over some parts. I think he had SW's arms pinned down and that is why she didn't fight. I think he had the blanket over the girls in such a way that they couldn't scratch him. He acted like BW didn't struggle, but then when the investigator's mention that her frenulum was ripped, he asked if her moving her head could cause that. I'd guess she'd have to be violently moving her head to cause that tear. (Awful, just awful.)

If I recall correctly, he said he never had an altercation with his parents except for nutgate (?), but then says that he said some terrible things to his family around the time of the wedding and it was a big blow up.

I also think he lied about not getting the ring out of the lexus. He made a beeline straight for the lexus and appeared to take something out. Later, upstairs, he sort of pats his pocket, walks into the bedroom, then back out with the ring.

I think he was/is a mild mannered man who just doesn't feel emotions/empathy the same as a "neurotypical" person. He even says this and seems puzzled by it. I bet he'll be a model prisoner. I do think it was a series of events that led up to this (notably NK) and that he might never have been a violent person had these events not taken place. I also still wonder if the "patch" and his lack of sleep helped "flip the switch".

 

[girlhasnoname]

gawd….bawling my eyes out.

thank you gardenista.

bella little sweet darling....what a beautiful human being you were.
just precious the both of you .
you make my heart swell. I am glad you lived and I am glad shanann was your mommy .

<modsnip: removed due to profanity>

Those little girls, especially Bella being a little mother hen to CeeCee, are too precious for words. How anyone could not look at them and hear the love and kindness already established in their little personalities and not credit Shannan for being such a wonderful, nurturing mother is beyond me.

All of these beautiful Watts babies and Mom are together eternally and I hope CW suffers every single day for the rest of his miserable life, which I hope turns out to be not a long one.
JMO

 

[Madison418]

Yes. One thing though. I keep reading from people the thought of someone being murdered in their sleep. Unless they're shot in the head or something similarly instantaneous, no one is murdered in their sleep. Because the moment there's pressure on their face or their air supply is cut off they'd be bolt upright in panic and wide awake.

But yeah, if they were asleep when he started smothering them they would not know who was doing it if it was dark and their heads were covered, if that's what you mean.

Juxtaposed with the hideous narrative of two frightened little girls riding in the back seat with their mother's corpse, sensing they're in danger and everything is wrong, and then poor Bella who probably had the cognitive ability to realize her mama was likely dead, and who rode without the security and normalcy of a car seat, clinging to her sister with a growing sense of dread for an hour, she watched her daddy drag her mother's quiet, unmoving body from the truck, and then watched as he killed and disposed of her precious sister.

Then he came for her.

So we are talking about a lot of sustained suffering that would not be there if he killed them in their beds.

I can imagine those terrified and quiet little girls on that desolate car ride. Understanding something is wrong. Mama is not moving. Daddy is acting weird. Sensing the danger.

It's the stuff of nightmares. I wish I couldn't picture it.

Just when I thought this story couldn't possibly get any more horrific. I have a 3 year old little girl and she would know exactly what was happening. I can't even think about it because the dread and extreme grief it invokes is overwhelming. I don't even know these people.

There is no better definition of a sociopath than Chris Watts IMO. He feels no remorse, no love, no nothing for anyone. I don't understand why he gets to live. I don't think his prison life is hard at all, I think he is probably quite content with it.

 

[ab01]

“Being in anbabusive relationship”. That kind of contradicts all his other statements that his marriage was pretty good and if you had met him NK he would not have thought his marriage was bad. It just angers me to no end that people want to paint Shanann as abusive

Yep it’s very nasty and vile, unfortunately those people (I’ll let you infer which ones) have an agenda and that agenda is to try to present cw in a different light. The watts family never liked or accepted Shanaan, so it’s easy for them to blame her. They now at least have heard certain things straight from CW mouth and weather they choose to accept it or not is btwn them and their god. I just hope if it didn’t mute them that it at the very least turned the volume down enough so that it isn’t still blaring in the Rzucek families ears!!!!

MOO

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Yep it’s very nasty and vile, unfortunately those people (I’ll let you infer which ones) have an agenda and that agenda is to present cw in a different light. The watts family never liked or accepted Shanaan, so it’s easy for them to blame her. They now at least have heard certain things straight from CW mouth and weather they choose to accept it or not is btwn them and their god. I just hope if it didn’t mute them that it at the very least turned the volume down enough so that isn’t still blaring in the Rzucek families ears!!!!

MOO

Absolutely, I am so glad this interview was released and they heard from his own mouth he did not feel belittled and was content letting Shanann make the decisions. Even when discussing how he did not like the FB videos there was no anger in his voice.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Do you think CBI had determined the shadows to be the girls prior to this interview? It was important for Rourke to clear Shanann of the girls murder and this piece of information would have helped do that. Maybe it was too speculative to include in any press conferences since the you can not actually see the girls.

 

[TridentBlu]

Do you think CBI had determined the shadows to be the girls prior to this interview? It was important for Rourke to clear Shanann of the girls murder and this piece of information would have helped do that. Maybe it was too speculative to include in any press conferences since the you can not actually see the girls.

I bet the CBI did not think the shadows were the girls prior to the interview. CW was already such an atypical murderer, I just don't think they believed he took them out alive. That just takes it to a whole new level of horror, and doesn't fit with a rage killing which I imagine was their first thought. I think that is why they asked him to confirm several times that they were alive at Cervi.

 

[margarita25]

Part 2:

2:59
“Every time I think about it I’m just like did I know I was going to do that when I got on top of her? I don’t know..”

Coder:
“Really? That’s an interesting thought, Chris. You don’t know..”

Snip

CW: “I don’t even want to know what she saw when she looked back up at me...”

Tammy: “Why do you think she wasn’t fighting?”

CW: “Maybe she was praying...(insert CW’s scripture)”

Snip

“I just wish I could’ve let go.”

Snip

“Felt like time was standing still...”

Snip

“It Just felt like someone was like behind me...I just couldn’t let go.”

—-

LE: “Rage?”

CW: “That’s the only way I can describe it honestly. I just snapped...”

—-

So my question is, if this was planned and it did not go down like this, why would he be trying to make it appear as a crime of passion or that he just snapped? He uses that word “passion” exactly. He’s already been sentenced.

ETA: Maybe the answer to the above is to assume a more passive and less active role, he doesn’t want to admit he planned all this.

 

[Davia18]

Like most of you this made me lose some sleep last night.
I kept imagining Bella watching her dad carry CeCe and putting her into that tank. I would think a child would be scared of those tanks anyway and then to see your sister dropped into there. I feel Bella fought so hard because she didn't want to be put into a tank.
Literally breaking my heart, and CW can just tell the story like nothing. I'm so sick right now over the new developments.

 

[Gardener1850]

I've seen both videos (the doorbell cam and the standard and close-up versions of the neighbor's vid). Facing the street, CW parked his truck in the right side of the driveway, the doorbell cam picked up parts of the left. I wondered if the girls were running around and if one or both might have run wide to the left toward the front door at any time and got picked up.

I think they would release that doorbell video if it existed. JMO.

 

[Kadymonk]

Wow, just wow. I finished the audio last night.

I now do think the girls were killed at Cervi. For someone who cares so much what others think, it makes absolutely no sense to make that part up.

I do think CW covered over some parts. I think he had SW's arms pinned down and that is why she didn't fight. I think he had the blanket over the girls in such a way that they couldn't scratch him. He acted like BW didn't struggle, but then when the investigator's mention that her frenulum was ripped, he asked if her moving her head could cause that. I'd guess she'd have to be violently moving her head to cause that tear. (Awful, just awful.)

If I recall correctly, he said he never had an altercation with his parents except for nutgate (?), but then says that he said some terrible things to his family around the time of the wedding and it was a big blow up.

I also think he lied about not getting the ring out of the lexus. He made a beeline straight for the lexus and appeared to take something out. Later, upstairs, he sort of pats his pocket, walks into the bedroom, then back out with the ring.

I think he was/is a mild mannered man who just doesn't feel emotions/empathy the same as a "neurotypical" person. He even says this and seems puzzled by it. I bet he'll be a model prisoner. I do think it was a series of events that led up to this (notably NK) and that he might never have been a violent person had these events not taken place. I also still wonder if the "patch" and his lack of sleep helped "flip the switch".

I really agree with your characterization of Chris. How he could tell the story (or commit the murders) of killing BW and CCW without agonizing grief is beyond anyone of us.

I cringed each time the detectives complimented Chris or his family. I hated it when they tried to put words in his mouth about SW being controlling among other things. Several times I wanted them to ‘shut-up’ and let Chris talk. Also I wish the 3 interviewers would have not asked leading questions and tried harder to get Chris to explain his version of the following lingering questions in my mind;

...what did SW do or say that made you put your hands around her neck and begin strangling? Chris admitted that in the past she had threatened to not let him see the kids but not this nite. My opinion is that he really didn’t want to admit to attacking his pregnant wife while she was sleeping. Sounds better to be an enraged killing than a cowardly act.

...why, why, why?? did you kill your kids? You had a 45 minute drive to get over any rage. Did you make the decision on what was going to happen to the kids on the drive over? My guess is Bella witnessed too much even if it was just wrapping Mommy up. She was so bright and would have told what she saw. BW had to go which meant precious little CW was just a casualty of the circumstances. No one would believe SW disappeared without taking both girls.

For the most part, or as much as Chris can, he is ‘softenly’ telling the truth. Chris still wants everyone to view him as a good guy. Yes he will be a model prisoner and try to portray prison is not that bad.

What a wonderful family and life this guy would have had. Sexual lust may be more powerful than we know in some people. Powerful enough to take over the love of his own children, commitment, compassion, and reasoning.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Part 2:

2:59
“Every time I think about it I’m just like did I know I was going to do that when I got on top of her? I don’t know..”

Coder:
“Really? That’s an interesting thought, Chris. You don’t know..”

Snip

CW: “I don’t even want to know what she saw when she looked back up at me...”

Tammy: “Why do you think she wasn’t fighting?”

CW: “Maybe she was praying...(insert CW’s scripture)”

Snip

“I just wish I could’ve let go.”

Snip

“Felt like time was standing still...”

Snip

“It Just felt like someone was like behind me...I just couldn’t let go.”

—-

LE: “Rage?”

CW: “That’s the only way I can describe it honestly. I just snapped...”

—-

So my question is, if this was planned and it did not go down like this, why would he be trying to make it appear as a crime of passion or that he just snapped? He uses that word “passion” exactly. He’s already been sentenced.

For his image which has always seemed to be his main concern. In his initial interview he was the most emotional when they suggested co workers helping recover the girls. Did you notice how many times they stoked his ego -we know you’re a good guy Chris, we know you care, we know you’re not a monster. They knew what would engage him to talk.

 

[margarita25]

In the truck
Part 2/12:00ish:

“Is Mommy ok?”

CW: “She’ll be fine.”

—-

So re: the gas can, he’s claiming it there because he was (paraphrasing) going to kill himself. (He “doesn’t have a gun, anything like that, never hunted, “I didn’t know what I was doing”).

Tammy asks why he didn’t do it (kill himself), answer is maybe he would hurt more people, I don’t believe this is the reason why he refrained from committing suicide.

Tammy says maybe he was on “auto mode”. (Paraphrasing)

So I guess that’s the best answer we’ll get re: the gas can. But noting according to him he didn’t mention being low on gas, etc.

—-

I like how Coder uses passive “And that’s how she passed...” (re: CeCe) to keep him talking.

 

[margarita25]

I’m glad he says he hears “Daddy no” every day.

 

[Sheenaisapunkrocker]

Seriously.. this audio is hard to get through. He sounds like a teenage girl saying like every few words. I just can’t see how he has such a high IQ but comes across as immature and not able articulate well. He certainly has a low EQ.

I personally know people with super high IQs that won't even hold a job at Walmart - all smarts, zero common sense.

 

[TridentBlu]

How he could tell the story (or commit the murders) of killing BW and CCW without agonizing grief is beyond anyone of us.

I know this has been said, so I'm just repeating. He had no love for the girls or his wife. Once he had NK, it was like a light switch where he no longer wanted to pretend to be the loving family man and simply didn't want to bother with them. But I don't think he even understands why the light switch flipped. He is haunted by BW saying, "No, daddy", because he is horrified that she thought poorly of him, not that he was killing her. Perhaps SW said something along the lines of, "Everyone is going to know what a horrible person you are", and the idea of that set him off (although I do think he was planning it before he even spoke with her, if he did even talk to her that night). I do think the sex might have been a test to see if he still had any emotional attachment to her, and he realized that he didn't. That might have been when the ruminations on killing her and the kids really took root.

 

[Tigerlily75]

I can’t find the post now but someone asked how CW knew they had video. He knew because he stood in his neighbors house watching it, hands on head, in complete uttter panic. Keeping in mind - CW knew all along the girls were still alive at that point, and that he put them in the truck. He probably thinks they knew that too.

I believe it was Armchair Detective on YouTube who first made the shadows video (since duplicated by many other YouTubers). He sent it to DA Rourke, who of course has the original video which is likely better quality than what we see on YouTube. He says he got much heat for that video, but he was absolutely convinced the shadow was Bella, so is feeling pretty vindicated right now, with DA Rourke mentioning the shadows.

I personally had just thought it was a given they were killed at home so didn’t really pay attention, as well as thinking we’d never find out anymore about this case anyway, so what was even the point of speculating.

Such crazy and unexpected developments this week.

 

[MsBetsy]

Part 2:

2:59
“Every time I think about it I’m just like did I know I was going to do that when I got on top of her? I don’t know..”

Coder:
“Really? That’s an interesting thought, Chris. You don’t know..”

Snip

CW: “I don’t even want to know what she saw when she looked back up at me...”

Tammy: “Why do you think she wasn’t fighting?”

CW: “Maybe she was praying...(insert CW’s scripture)”

Snip

“I just wish I could’ve let go.”

Snip

“Felt like time was standing still...”

Snip

“It Just felt like someone was like behind me...I just couldn’t let go.”

—-

LE: “Rage?”

CW: “That’s the only way I can describe it honestly. I just snapped...”

—-

So my question is, if this was planned and it did not go down like this, why would he be trying to make it appear as a crime of passion or that he just snapped? He uses that word “passion” exactly. He’s already been sentenced.

ETA: Maybe the answer to the above is to assume a more passive and less active role, he doesn’t want to admit he planned all this.

I think he just doesn't want to admit responsibility. It's much easier for him to say he wasn't in control and didn't really understand what was happening to him than to come right out and admit that he killed them because he wanted to.
When he mentions maybe it was "implanted in his mind that he wanted to do it," it's the closest he has come to admitting it was premeditated.
I'm pretty sure the investigators know that he was not being truthful about being overcome with rage and unable to control himself. Imo

 

[Seattle1]

Wow, just wow. I finished the audio last night.

I now do think the girls were killed at Cervi. For someone who cares so much what others think, it makes absolutely no sense to make that part up.

I do think CW covered over some parts. I think he had SW's arms pinned down and that is why she didn't fight. I think he had the blanket over the girls in such a way that they couldn't scratch him. He acted like BW didn't struggle, but then when the investigator's mention that her frenulum was ripped, he asked if her moving her head could cause that. I'd guess she'd have to be violently moving her head to cause that tear. (Awful, just awful.)

If I recall correctly, he said he never had an altercation with his parents except for nutgate (?), but then says that he said some terrible things to his family around the time of the wedding and it was a big blow up.

I also think he lied about not getting the ring out of the lexus. He made a beeline straight for the lexus and appeared to take something out. Later, upstairs, he sort of pats his pocket, walks into the bedroom, then back out with the ring.

I think he was/is a mild mannered man who just doesn't feel emotions/empathy the same as a "neurotypical" person. He even says this and seems puzzled by it. I bet he'll be a model prisoner. I do think it was a series of events that led up to this (notably NK) and that he might never have been a violent person had these events not taken place. I also still wonder if the "patch" and his lack of sleep helped "flip the switch".

Yes -- thanks for reminding us that CW is NOT "neurotypical."

SW was so open and gave us so much that we felt we knew these children and their personalities. I believe it's indisputable that the girls went to sleep Sunday evening with the promise that Mommy would be home from her three day trip when they woke up in the morning, and they could "barrel rush her," and cling, and squeal with delight -- just as we'd come to know of them.

The realization that they did not get to wake to Mommy greeting them has been as hard to accept as CW forcing them to take a 45 minute ride in his truck with Mommy dead on the floorboard, before he ended their precious lives.

Believing that CW killed the girls at the site, I'm posing the question: why would this not neuro-typical subject delay killing the children until later, when it seemed more convenient for him to murder them at home?

Why didn't CW take his adrenaline rush from strangling SW across the hall, and smother the children ?

Did CW think that in the event he was pulled over while driving, it would be easier to explain why he was transporting one dead body in his truck than to explain why he had three dead bodies in his truck?

I'd like your reasons for a later poll on why CW didn't kill the girls at home and/or kept them alive until arriving his Cervi worksite. I'll start it off, and please add your reasons....

1. Time constraint -- needed to get to work early before anybody else might show up.

 

[Sheenaisapunkrocker]

Wow, just wow. I finished the audio last night.

I now do think the girls were killed at Cervi. For someone who cares so much what others think, it makes absolutely no sense to make that part up.

I do think CW covered over some parts. I think he had SW's arms pinned down and that is why she didn't fight. I think he had the blanket over the girls in such a way that they couldn't scratch him. He acted like BW didn't struggle, but then when the investigator's mention that her frenulum was ripped, he asked if her moving her head could cause that. I'd guess she'd have to be violently moving her head to cause that tear. (Awful, just awful.)

If I recall correctly, he said he never had an altercation with his parents except for nutgate (?), but then says that he said some terrible things to his family around the time of the wedding and it was a big blow up.

I also think he lied about not getting the ring out of the lexus. He made a beeline straight for the lexus and appeared to take something out. Later, upstairs, he sort of pats his pocket, walks into the bedroom, then back out with the ring.

I think he was/is a mild mannered man who just doesn't feel emotions/empathy the same as a "neurotypical" person. He even says this and seems puzzled by it. I bet he'll be a model prisoner. I do think it was a series of events that led up to this (notably NK) and that he might never have been a violent person had these events not taken place. I also still wonder if the "patch" and his lack of sleep helped "flip the switch".

Agree! Shannan was asleep and CW pinned her arms down while he choked her. Because if he was on top of her like he said he was, Shanann would've been screaming her arse off. IMO
When someone is pinning you down like that, it's terrifying.