Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #88

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MistyWaters said:
Right, but just because there’s a trail through the woods as sighted by google doesn’t mean it’s a public walking trail, could be deer trails through private land.

The presence of trails on treed rural land does not mitigate a possible scenario that the girls were shot as they attempted to flee to safety. It’s only a theory, one that accounts for the killer leaving no DNA on the bodies and the location of where the bodies were found.

All we really know is nobody called 911 the afternoon of Feb 13th over hearing screams, gunfire or any other suspicious sounds or activity because when the girls were first reported missing, foul play was not suspected.
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I believe they do have DNA, but maybe they just haven’t matched it to a killer yet. Some of the DNA found could belong to others and not necessarily the murderer. For example, it is possible that some DNA could have been left by one or more of the searchers.


The wide path that the bodies were found near leads to the water. Possibly it was used by kids or adults who used it when fishing. Or to drag canoes or kayaks in and out of the water. I’m not sure how deep the water is at that point.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.indystar.com/amp/326442002


If you scroll down on the story below there is a video that gives a really good overview of the area.

MAP: Where the two bodies were found near Delphi
 
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The DNA aspect is very important. I think the motive was possible an assault of some nature, maybe sexual.

The motive is very, very important in understanding why these girls would have been killed.

It could have been some sort of trail rage, maybe one or both offended him in some way.

Whatever the motive, I am leaning back on the evidence of dna (for now) that there isn’t any.

I go back to the theory the BG had a plan to abduct them on spot, or do something else nefarious, and his plans were interrupted because the girls didn’t cooperate, even with a weapon, like a gun or knife.

These are some very brave girls, and I do tend to think BG’s plan didn’t go down well (in his perspective).

What might have gone wrong, what many have speculated here, is one didn’t leave the other, or the girls took off running across the creek. IMO.

ETA: typos
 
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I’m still new to the case- trying to catch up but it’s slow-going with so many pages- so apologies if this has already been dissected and discussed (it likely has). Have WS’ers poured over the Delphi high school yearbooks already- specifically from the late ‘80’s - mid 90’s? I found a website that has most of them online.
 
MJPeony said:
Unfortunately, as I’ve been browsing the yearbooks I can convince myself that every boy looks like BG :eek:

But people here are amazing sleuths.... who knows!
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+ He looks like a regular guy in Delphi. Or anywhere.

I look in the mirror wearing my scally cap, hoodie and dad jeans... Good Lord I hope no one searches my computer.

We sleuths. What we search. What we do.

You all are truly amazing. I SO agree.

JMO
 
So I am still rather new to actually posting here, although I have been interested in true crime for a long time. I probably made a mistake trying to read through all of these threads and during the course stumbling upon Facebook and reddit threads trying to read them all too... but I keep recalling something about Abby and Libby’s DOD being 14th and 13th due to someone saying Abby was likely only passed within hours of searchers finding her on the 14th. Can anyone clarify, is this total misinformation or speculation? And if I have made a mistake or not followed protocol please correct me and remove etc.
 
Sleuth15 said:
Also, a teenager would be used to walking across the scary bridge as they tend to have less fear...vs a 40+ yo man
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I remember.
Walking across train bridges wasn't scary at all. My steps were shorter - keep watching my feet but mostly look ahead for trains. There were step outs much like on the Monon where Libby took the picture from. On solid land you could skip some ties here and there and step on the gravel.
But on the bridge I could saunter along as long as I kept the rhythm and awareness. It was the rhythm. Watch your feet.
He was comfortable walking there and I don't need a vid to know that. There is a GIF in the media thread that shows it in 3 steps I think.
 
I will add though just from all I have read and soaked in about this case, so many things bother me due to so many key parts being left out from LE. I understand needing to keep some facts only the killer would know close to their vests so to speak... however I do think they could at least release something else. I mean from the little released my very first instinct was... the man the father encountered and the woman witness encountered had to to be the same man. And must be the suspect... but going further if that were the case then why wouldn’t there be an arrest by now? If there is any credence to the information of different death dates actually being accurate then that would rule that person out entirely of course except perhaps an accomplice. So many things just tumbling around in my mind of course having tried to take in a wealth of information and actually categorize it so much later.
 
Mamabear3cubs said:
So I am still rather new to actually posting here, although I have been interested in true crime for a long time. I probably made a mistake trying to read through all of these threads and during the course stumbling upon Facebook and reddit threads trying to read them all too... but I keep recalling something about Abby and Libby’s DOD being 14th and 13th due to someone saying Abby was likely only passed within hours of searchers finding her on the 14th. Can anyone clarify, is this total misinformation or speculation? And if I have made a mistake or not followed protocol please correct me and remove etc.
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Welcome Mamabear that you post more.:):):)
You are correct about different dates of these girls, and several theories were discussed, throughout the posts.
MOO.
 
I am a mother of four and my heart
tmar said:
My own opinion.
Someone may post WS abbreviations for you.
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Tyvm tmar, I am still struggling to understand how to use the forums but would love to try and help bring these babies justice! I am a mother of 3 and cannot imagine having to be in this position and want to help anyway I possibly can!
 
Steleheart said:
I remember.
Walking across train bridges wasn't scary at all. My steps were shorter - keep watching my feet but mostly look ahead for trains. There were step outs much like on the Monon where Libby took the picture from. On solid land you could skip some ties here and there and step on the gravel.
But on the bridge I could saunter along as long as I kept the rhythm and awareness. It was the rhythm. Watch your feet.
He was comfortable walking there and I don't need a vid to know that. There is a GIF in the media thread that shows it in 3 steps I think.
Click to expand...
I just look at those photos over and over and I can’t see a teenager. At least not an average teen. Perhaps one from a low income family who can’t afford the “cool clothing” or a teen who has a disability, however I just don’t think that could apply to this specific case in general. It seems to be possibly a male anywhere 29-50 range for me. I mention 29 because I dated a guy once who was from Minnesota and at that age already wore what I would refer to as “old man jeans”.
 
Mamabear3cubs said:
I just look at those photos over and over and I can’t see a teenager. At least not an average teen. Perhaps one from a low income family who can’t afford the “cool clothing” or a teen who has a disability, however I just don’t think that could apply to this specific case in general. It seems to be possibly a male anywhere 29-50 range for me. I mention 29 because I dated a guy once who was from Minnesota and at that age already wore what I would refer to as “old man jeans”.
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Also I am sorry if you were not on board with the “teen theory” you were commenting on but just adding to the possible scenarios in which one might be “comfortable” walking that bridge.
 
Mamabear3cubs said:
I just look at those photos over and over and I can’t see a teenager. At least not an average teen. Perhaps one from a low income family who can’t afford the “cool clothing” or a teen who has a disability, however I just don’t think that could apply to this specific case in general. It seems to be possibly a male anywhere 29-50 range for me. I mention 29 because I dated a guy once who was from Minnesota and at that age already wore what I would refer to as “old man jeans”.
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The theory here would be that Bridge Guy WAS a teenager in Delphi many years ago. Not 2 years ago when Libby captured that photo. LE has said he was likely in his 40’s at the time of the crime/that photo.

So the comfortable and familiar way many of us see BG walking in the photo could mean he was once familiar with that bridge- such as when he was a teenager back in the 80’s or 90’s.
 
Mamabear3cubs said:
So I am still rather new to actually posting here, although I have been interested in true crime for a long time. I probably made a mistake trying to read through all of these threads and during the course stumbling upon Facebook and reddit threads trying to read them all too... but I keep recalling something about Abby and Libby’s DOD being 14th and 13th due to someone saying Abby was likely only passed within hours of searchers finding her on the 14th. Can anyone clarify, is this total misinformation or speculation? And if I have made a mistake or not followed protocol please correct me and remove etc.
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Welcome to Websleuths and thanks for joining the conversation. No I would never advise someone to read through the first 87 threads In this case, LOL.
However much can be learned from the Media thread located here;

IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

Regarding the discrepancy in the dates, much has been discussed here and as you have found outside of WS, not much regard is given to factual data. Here, however, we try to use as much as is known of the facts of the case.
The court has stated that the girls were killed on the 13th. This statement is given in the petition to seal the autopsy results.

I would direct you to this post in the media thread for reference -
IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION
Or this post -
IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

In it is stated
"On March 28, 2017, State of Indiana, by Prosecuting Attorney Robert T. Ives, filed a Petition to seal the autopsy reports concerning Abigail Williams and Liberty German. The Court, being duly advised, FINDS as follows: 1) On February 13, 2017 Abigail Williams and Liberty German were killed just outside of Delphi in Carroll County, Indiana. 2) An investigation into these killings is ongoing. [...]
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That is an actual court record.

The much ado about the dates is only due to the fact that the families are free to remember their loved one's passing on whichever date they choose - one family chose Valentine's Day, IMO, is all that is.
But the court record is factual as given in the petition. Other sites can say what they please.

Once again, Welcome to Websleuths and feel free to ask for help from anyone here..
 
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