GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #70

[tmar]

I am glad they are not accessible to public. NK is deeply amoral person and does not need any “advertisement” in the form of nudes, tbh.

I hope NK, has a miserable existence, constantly being reminded of her part, in this tragedy.
She knows, and will not reveal this, as acts as the bland, 'unsuspecting' one in an affair.
Her interviews showed her as an idiot, trying to act cool and sexy, with those ridiculous body movements.
What a load of rot.
I am pleased CW revealed NK KNEW he was married, with kids, from the start.
MOO.

 

[mtnlites]

I hope NK, has a miserable existence, constantly being reminded of her part, in this tragedy.
She knows, and will not reveal this, as acts as the bland, 'unsuspecting' one in an affair.
Her interviews showed her as an idiot, trying to act cool and sexy, with those ridiculous body movements.
What a load of rot.
I am pleased CW revealed NK KNEW he was married, with kids, from the start.
MOO.

I thought it was interesting that, as obsessed with NK as he seemed to be, he certainly didn't hesitate to throw her under the bus a few times.

 

[magicforest]

Some time back, I came to the conclusion that CW was killing Cindy when he killed Shanann, with the kids being collateral damage. I'm even more convinced of that that after this interview. Did you notice how he he kept coming back to the wedding? He never got over that and while he transferred that resentment to Shanann, it was his mother who set that in motion and everyone but his grandmother followed Cindy.

Yes, I noticed how CW focused on the wedding too. If it's true he does talk to his dad every night on the phone, his dad may be parroting what Ma Watts has been heard sniping during nat'l TV interviews. So imagine what she's repeatedly saying to family and friends (and the pod people)..."we knew from the wedding Shannan was...blah, blah, blah..." CW has no opinion of his own, and he's said his dad is his "hero", so if his dad is implanting that opinion into CW's empty brain in some of these evening prison call chats, it's not surprising Chris may be parroting his daddy.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Thoughts on if one of the purposes for LE was to gage if NK contributed in anyway?

 

[WhimsicalWillow]

Thank you for the two audio interviews @PommyMommy . Are there anymore? I am shocked that I am only a few minutes in and Chris is victimizing himself by saying he was ALL ALONE in the jail cell at Colorado because anytime he was around people “They knew why I was there and threatened me”.

 

[Ultra Violet]

I thought it was interesting that, as obsessed with NK as he seemed to be, he certainly didn't hesitate to throw her under the bus a few times.

I have been wondering about this, too.

Could it be that he finally realizes (or has been informed) that she went to LE / spoke with them and shared information that led to his arrest and sealed his fate?

moo

 

[molly1255]

I hope NK, has a miserable existence, constantly being reminded of her part, in this tragedy.
She knows, and will not reveal this, as acts as the bland, 'unsuspecting' one in an affair.
Her interviews showed her as an idiot, trying to act cool and sexy, with those ridiculous body movements.
What a load of rot.
I am pleased CW revealed NK KNEW he was married, with kids, from the start.
MOO.

I'm pleased with that also. Last night I listened again to the interview she had with LE, when she brought her father along. That's the one when she pretended to have an emotional melt down, but very quickly recovered and she lied and tried to manipulate throughout the entire interview.

She claimed that because of his situation, she was trying to take things very slow with CW. He said he slept at her place every night when Shanann and the girls were out of town. He also said she wanted to have sex all the time.

And that's the love story of CW and NK. In a nutshell.

 

[WhimsicalWillow]

I will also say before getting into a relationship with somebody you have to do your due diligence. I understand times are tougher today and access is much easier due to dating apps but you have to do your homework on people.

SW had no idea that Chris was a monster when she met him. Due diligence would have revealed NOTHINg about Chris Watts. Chris fooled everyone and experts are baffled by him.

 

[molly1255]

I thought it was interesting that, as obsessed with NK as he seemed to be, he certainly didn't hesitate to throw her under the bus a few times.

He certainly did! He may have been trying to get even. He may have heard that she said that his cheese slid off the cracker before she ever met him.

They are two very nasty, hideous people.

 

[stereopticons]

I've been out of touch for a while but @PommyMommy alerted me to the updates on this case. I don't know how much of the discussion about SW I believe--how do you straddle someone for 20 minutes and have a conversation? IMO, parts are true. I think he had been thinking about killing SW at least for a while. He had a lot of built up resentment towards her. It's chilling that he said that this had all pent up from the wedding--that's a long time and a lot of resentment. I don't think his resentment was warranted--she was just trying to living her life the way she wanted. But resentment is powerful and probably had him thinking about killing her for a while. I think believe that he hadn't fully planned this and the conversation, however it happened, probably was the ultimate trigger.

I'm still on the fence about whether or not he planned to kill Bella and CeCe or only did so because they saw what happened. It breaks my heart that they knew what was going on, especially Bella, who had to see both her mother and her sister die. I'm glad he hears Bella every day-I hope she haunts him for the rest of his life.

Anyway, my two cents on the developments. He's told so many different stories at this point that it's hard to know what to believe.

 

[stereopticons]

SW had no idea that Chris was a monster when she met him. Due diligence would have revealed NOTHINg about Chris Watts. Chris fooled everyone and experts are baffled by him.

This is true--we know what the predictors are for serial killers, but for family annihilators like this, we still don't know enough. The fact that he'd had no serious relationships before SW, and his relationship with his mother in retrospect are indicators, but there's no way she could've known what would happen just from that. My research focus is on suicide rather than homicide, so I'm not sure what the progress on this area has been, but hopefully, some day, we can figure out something to stop these kinds of things before they happen.

 

[drama_farmer]

This is true--we know what the predictors are for serial killers, but for family annihilators like this, we still don't know enough. The fact that he'd had no serious relationships before SW, and his relationship with his mother in retrospect are indicators, but there's no way she could've known what would happen just from that. My research focus is on suicide rather than homicide, so I'm not sure what the progress on this area has been, but hopefully, some day, we can figure out something to stop these kinds of things before they happen.

Thanks for joining in with your insight. A question for you, and anyone else who has an opinion:
Is it possible that CW is unaware that he lacks empathy/appropriate emotions? That there is something terribly wrong with him? Does he know how different he is? And if the answer is no, when do you think he realized this?

Along the same lines, is it possible that he really doesn't know why he destroyed his family?

 

[BradB]

Its definitely something to debate. The act itself obviously makes him a monster but was he really in life? If there were no red flags or no causes for concern then we are left with somebody who lost his mind over somebody else which probably drove him to dispose of his current wife and life.

 

[molly1255]

I have been wondering about this, too.

Could it be that he finally realizes (or has been informed) that she went to LE / spoke with them and shared information that led to his arrest and sealed his fate?

moo

The affair showed motive, but I don't think NK was all that helpful to LE, other than she confirmed they had been having an affair. LE already had proof of that.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I just finished listening to his confession. I thought he put SW in the bed of the truck... it never dawned on me she was on the floor where the girls were sitting with garbage bags over her feet and head. Just sick. Those poor girls!

So...did cadaver dogs hit all over the house? And the truck?

 

[wilsodh]

I'd be curious what the interviewers thought of CW's truthfulness in the confession. As some have noted, some things are hard to believe, such as straddling SW while talking to her. But why would he say this if it wasn't true? I also got feelings that CW was slipping self-enhancing elements into his story. The real truth seems to be like peeling back layers of an onion... we may be closer, but there are still some layers to go...

 

[pinkie60]

This will give this jerk so much pleasure, realizing he is so important, so wanted.
Daily he probably will delight in these readings.
This 'fan club' of creeps will follow him everywhere, and he will not be lonely.
Yuk.
MOO.

Do you think he could be corresponding with NK right now?

 

[stereopticons]

Thanks for joining in with your insight. A question for you, and anyone else who has an opinion:
Is it possible that CW is unaware that he lacks empathy/appropriate emotions? That there is something terribly wrong with him? Does he know how different he is? And if the answer is no, when do you think he realized this?

Along the same lines, is it possible that he really doesn't know why he destroyed his family?

I think he probably lacks insight. IMO, he's never had to deal with his emotions on his own. By his own admission, he was the baby of the family, and his relationship with his mother probably helped develop coping skills that are not functional or "normal". He probably doesn't realize this is the case, and when he came up against someone like SW who, by all accounts, knew how to tackle challenges. I suspect she tried to solve all the problems she could for him, but couldn't make his life perfect which generated resentment.

It is entirely possible that he doesn't know why he killed his family. I really think is his insight into his own mind is pretty limited. However, while I acknowledge what he did was not normal, and there's definitely some emotional problems, I still maintain my stance that I don't think he has a diagnosable mental disorder (conditioned on the fact that you cannot adequately diagnose someone over the internet).

 

[Mitch11]

In hindsight, I believe that family therapy with a good, seasoned, probably older male therapist, might have saved the Wattses. Chris can not interpret his emotions, moreover, he confuses physical feelings (sexual gratification) with emotions (love). I am thinking of how much a good therapist might have helped him. All CW’s ideas about marriage were so naive (e.g., having a child to save a marriage).
But sadly, people go to therapy when they are on the verge of divorce, and not when they are still holding it together.

You make an excellent point. Im going to say this and it probably won't be popular but I do have empathy for the way CW was raised. He has grown up socially inept and completely out of touch with his emotions. His father had addiction issues and is also emotionally avoidant and his mother is very controlling and manipulative. Although the psychological consequences of these factors have previously been discussed, CW clearly has no sense of himself, who he is and what he feels (without the help of Google). He's obviously been building up with rage and resentment and had no clue what was even happening to him or how to deal with that in a positive manner. Incredibly concerning...

However that is where my empathy ends for CW. Without a doubt I have ZERO empathy towards him for the terrifying, horrifying and absolutely heartbreaking crimes he committed against his family. My heart breaks everyday thinking about SW and her babies and all those who loved them..particularly the Ruzceks.

I really do agree with you though that he needed help earlier. There are many more people like CW roaming this earth, who may or may not go on to commit heinous crimes like him. However something does need to be done earlier to target individuals when they are younger to give them the skills they need for life including helping them learn emotion identification, emotional resilience, anger management etc. More needs to be done to target our hideous domestic violence rates.

However I do want to make it clear that his background in no way excuses what he has done. As mentioned there will be other people with similar childhoods who do not go on to do what he did. I guess that is the issue we are all struggling to come to terms with.

 

[stereopticons]

You make an excellent point. Im going to say this and it probably won't be popular but I do have empathy for the way CW was raised. He has grown up socially inept and completely out of touch with his emotions. His father had addiction issues and is also emotionally avoidant and his mother is very controlling and manipulative. Although the psychological consequences of these factors have previously been discussed, CW clearly has no sense of himself, who he is and what he feels (without the help of Google). He's obviously been building up with rage and resentment and had no clue what was even happening to him or how to deal with that in a positive manner. Incredibly concerning...

However that is where my empathy ends for CW. Without a doubt I have ZERO empathy towards him for the terrifying, horrifying and absolutely heartbreaking crimes he committed against his family. My heart breaks everyday thinking about SW and her babies and all those who loved them..particularly the Ruzceks.

I really do agree with you though that he needed help earlier. There are many more people like CW roaming this earth, who may or may not go on to commit heinous crimes like him. However something does need to be done earlier to target individuals when they are younger to give them the skills they need for life including helping them learn emotion identification, emotional resilience, anger management etc. More needs to be done to target our hideous domestic violence rates.

However I do want to make it clear that his background in no way excuses what he has done. As mentioned there will be other people with similar childhoods who do not go on to do what he did. I guess that is the issue we are all struggling to come to terms with.

This is spot on. His childhood likely contributed to what he did but in no way excuses it. Many of us grew up with a manipulative parent and have not murdered anyone. But it does give insight into how this could have happened with SW. Therapy could have helped, could’ve even prevented this, but getting someone like him to even go to therapy would be a major challenge (SW tried!).