GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #70

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He's probably been rehearsing already for his parents coming to visit. He has probably been trying to find ways to sugarcoat what he did. So I'd suspect that's why he came out with a mixture of truth and lies.

The whole story about arguing with SW before he killed her, I bet that's what he planned to tell his parents. He knew they'd want to know "the trigger", why he killed her. He didn't expect they would ask about a host of other things. They are ready and willing to believe what they want to hear at any rate.

The difference between rehearsing for his parents and for investigators is a matter of what questions to ask, how to ask them, and when. I imagine investigators are trained in things like physical cues and body language, how to read it and how to affect their own. They also know the facts of the case and how to trip him up, something his parents wouldn't know how to do.

Just a theory. A likely one IMO

This is exactly my opinion too. He has had months to come up with a "story" for his parents and possibly other prisoners. Just because he didn't know investigators were coming; doesn't mean he wasn't already working on a story to tell.

He was trying to come up with a story that didn't show premeditation. He knows that this whole thing being pre planned makes it all worse. So he has tried to omit anything that makes it look planned in advance.
 
Exactly. And you know CeCe would have probably even realized something was wrong when he was dragging SW down the steps with her feet bumping on each step. Then to cover her feet and head with a bag in the truck. It would have been far less cruel to kill them at home. Instead, he extended their fear and horror for over an hour taking him to that site. Bella loved CeCe and was so protective of her. I can't imagine how she felt seeing her little feet kicking as she was drawing her final breaths, and seeing him take her limp body from the truck. He is the most evil of persons.

I don't think he wanted to kill the girls, that's why he took them on the "ride" alive. In the end though, he realized he had to kill them since they were witnesses.
 
bbm
Thanks anyway, PM. I appreciate you trying.

I did search youtube but can't find it.

I rarely watch DP as he annoys me so much, but I actually took a late lunch last week so I could go home and watch part 1. Shoulda done the same thing today, I guess.
I liked him so much better when he was a puppet on Sesame St. "Dr. Feel". Heh!
 
Heres a really great video breakdown of the interrogation tactits as they are being employed on CW.

The name and explanation of each tactic is shown, as they move through them, and boy, does it do a great job of showing how very, very skilled thse two agents were!

 
Hi! I am a long time looker. I was wondering if maybe CW thought that he had to kill the girls at the site because he was worried about rigor mortis. Maybe that is why he immediately put CeCe in the tank before killing sweet Bella. He wanted to make sure they were still “warm” and able to slide in the tanks.


I hate even writing that but I’ve always wondered if that is why he killed them at the site rather than at home. :(
 
Hi all! First time posting on this particular case, although I have followed it and read thru all 70 threads. I really don't have too much to add that hasn't been said, or thought of on here before. I have always felt he was guilty from the start, that sweet Shannan was not the one to kill her babies, and that after watching his videos and reading thru the discovery that he basically is a shell of a human void of any type of emotion, or personality. I just wanted to pop in to add a few comments regarding his recent confession and things I noticed. I have had to step away from this one as it's a tragic story all around. I have a 4 year old girl myself and I cannot fathom how a parent could even hurt their child.

One thing I noticed that really just bugged me (not that the whole thing didn't bug me, hearing about the girls and what he claims happened) about his confession was when he pointed out about why he took the bed sheets off (his and Shannan's bed) and he made a point about "when you strangle someone they sometimes go to the bathroom" .. to me, he said that with pride .. he said it like he was an old pro and I think it was also a jab at trying to make Shannan look bad (like let the world know, etc) .. I don't know why that comment bothered me .. I think mainly the way he spoke it ..

anyways, I've enjoyed reading everyone's take on this case, but I think I need to take a break from this one in particular!! I love all my fellow WS's!!!
 
Hi! I am a long time looker. I was wondering if maybe CW thought that he had to kill the girls at the site because he was worried about rigor mortis. Maybe that is why he immediately put CeCe in the tank before killing sweet Bella. He wanted to make sure they were still “warm” and able to slide in the tanks.


I hate even writing that but I’ve always wondered if that is why he killed them at the site rather than at home. :(
Oy. Rings true. :(:(
 
Hi! I am a long time looker. I was wondering if maybe CW thought that he had to kill the girls at the site because he was worried about rigor mortis. Maybe that is why he immediately put CeCe in the tank before killing sweet Bella. He wanted to make sure they were still “warm” and able to slide in the tanks.


I hate even writing that but I’ve always wondered if that is why he killed them at the site rather than at home. :(
Annnndddd, we have a winner! Makes perfect sense. Uhg! So much for these murders not being premeditated!

Eta: Just checked, and this same theory is being floated around on Reddit as well. It is the only reason I can buy, for why he would immediately climb the platform to put CeCe in the tank and then come back for Bella!).
Wow! Breathtakingly Evil.
 
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If he was as smart as he thinks he is we'd all be getting things done instead of typing here because he would not have been caught.

These murderers make me shake my head. I feel like CW planned this, but did his plans start with the night before-call to the coworker about Cervi visit or did they start before or when CW took NK out to dinner and used the family plastic to pay instead of the "gift cards" he usually used? My point being, How long did he premeditate it?

I don't think most murderers think things through as good as they think they're thinking things through.

I need to go finish the transcript, I'm simply unable to watch it....CW with his "new physical appearance since Thrive, working out, and better diet" thinks he's still eye candy and I can't stomach him.

I wonder if he came up with the first plot before he murdered them (SW killed them so I killed her plot) or if he had that 3 days to come up with it. Since he's sticking with "rage murder," we'll probably never know.

Someone else opined that he was giving cover to a possible NK involvement with this version of things (rage killing). I guess we'll never know.
 
I'm still not sure I buy that CW didn't know the professionals were coming.

I don't know why they would lie about this but tell me why these well-paid people would fly to the middle of nowhere if they were not sure CW would speak with them? Seems risky.

He was speaking freely to the civil attorney for Shanann's family. They heard that and took a chance.
 
Well, first, I have a family member on the spectrum and he does not lack empathy.

As far as CW and his utter lack of empathy or remorse, I don't think there's anything medical about it. Maybe if we stop calling these types 'disordered' and 'mentally ill', and hanging 'clinical diagnoses' on them, and start calling them the soulless evil individuals that they are, we'll be more on target and not waste so much time and money on 'understanding' what there's not so much to understand once it comes full circle. They all think the same, lie the same, manipulate the same, and discard with the same lack of remorse for their victims. Their behavior might vary in degree, but they are all the same.

I personally don't care if their mommies were emotionally chilly while breastfeeding, or they felt lonely in the lunchroom, or were never picked for the volleyball team. These things will never explain just deciding one day to brutally strangle their spouses and suffocate their toddlers, then hide the bodies, then offer a breezy, "Gee, why did I do that?" to investigators. We've gone too far with medicalizing and 'clinicalizing' the heinous acts of evil people with no conscience. JMO

I think I understand your feelings, and if someone wants to stop with simply calling something evil and that satisfies them, it is imo a valid personal choice.

But as a societal choice, I do not agree that is adequate. And the very good work of a researcher such as Kent Kiehl goes a long way toward helping make some sense of how incarcerated people who score high on the psychopathy checklist have measurable brain differences to other people, and that there may be ways to recognize this early and prevent it. That would help society as a whole.

An earlier article about Kiehl’s work, in the New Yorker:
The Minds of Psychopaths

A more recent book, which also points to interventions done with juveniles:
https://www.amazon.com/Psychopath-W...ds=Kent+Kiehl&qid=1552404165&s=gateway&sr=8-1
 
The spectrum is very large and millions of people are on it. If there is a study that links Autism to murder then I'd like to see it. Otherwise, I think it's a disservice to those on the spectrum to suggest that him potentially being autistic (something we have absolutely no basis for aside from observation from afar) has anything to do with the callous murder of 4 people.

I agree there! MOO is he is more like BPD than any form of autism to begin with. The autism I've seen in my personal life with those who do have it.... and it's a wide range for the disorder, I've not seen the lack of empathy. The autistic children I know actually empathize MORESO with other individuals than not.

However only a trained psychiatrist/psychologist can diagnose anyone. I am neither myself. I do have BPD however that doesn't mean everyone has it, not even CW. To me I only brought that up earlier to say it would be interesting to learn of some things they can observe in his brain that hint to this diagnosis. CW, from what I believe, and I could be wrong has not been diagnosed to where the public has been made aware of it and quiet frankly HIPPA protects even his rights there we may never see a clear diagnosis. Those are the things that would be better suited to the family's knowing anyhow. NONE of it will bring SW or the babies back. NONE! So at this point of it is mote to be made aware to us anyhow.



Much love and respect.
 
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Finished the tapes and my god I felt like I was listening to my ex-husband that whole time. It was frightening and fascinating. I never imagined there were two of him in the world. They both have the same fake affect, use word salad, regurgitate other people's language, survive in life by mimicing others (not having the feelings themselves - i.e. love), they both get/got passes in life by being labeled the quiet/shy guy but in reality they both really can't connect with others in any meaningful way. They create a path of destruction and are surprised that other people are affected by their , ability to lie on the fly but not very well - they are very transparent but people still give them a pass/out/look the other way because they'd "never hurt a fly," not very convincing when talking about a complicated subject, able to make jokes/laugh at completely inappropriate moments, scary ability to compartmentalize, expect everyone to see them as a good guy and can't see how anything is ever their fault...I could go on and on and on. Frighteningly good at math and have a photographic memory.

People aren't seen as individuals with their own hopes/desires/needs/future - they are literally there to serve his needs. If he no longer needs something from them - disposal begins. For CW his means of disposal was murder. For me it has been a prolonged sort of torture going in to its 6th year now where my ex has done EVERYTHING he can to erase me besides the actual murder. My ex, no doubt, has a Cluster B personality disorder and I see the same in CW.

Ohhh and there's a very unhealthy relationship with the dominant Mother and Father is a very flawed and weak dude.
 
I wonder if he was trying to figure a way to let them live, or let them live as long as possible. I just is incomprehensible.

Possibly these two murders were just more “distasteful” to him than murdering his wife was, so he delayed it a bit, just as a normal person might put off doing a task they don’t enjoy but that “needs to be done.” Obviously if he were thinking humanely he wouldn’t have killed them to begin with, so the logic is not going to be infused with any attempts at altruism, nor will the behavior be driven by empathy.

ETA: I read the idea that he might have delayed to be sure rigor mortis hadn’t set in. Interesting and sad. I read this: Rigor mortis can take two to six hours to begin. “The onset of rigor mortis is affected by the individual's age, sex, physical condition, and muscular build. Rigor mortis may not be perceivable in many infant and child corpses due to their smaller muscle mass.” Not sure what CW would or wouldn’t have known.
 
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Finished the tapes and my god I felt like I was listening to my ex-husband that whole time. It was frightening and fascinating. I never imagined there were two of him in the world. They both have the same fake affect, use word salad, regurgitate other people's language, survive in life by mimicing others (not having the feelings themselves - i.e. love), they both get/got passes in life by being labeled the quiet/shy guy but in reality they both really can't connect with others in any meaningful way. They create a path of destruction and are surprised that other people are affected by their ********, ability to lie on the fly but not very well - they are very transparent but people still give them a pass/out/look the other way because they'd "never hurt a fly," not very convincing when talking about a complicated subject, able to make jokes/laugh at completely inappropriate moments, scary ability to compartmentalize, expect everyone to see them as a good guy and can't see how anything is ever their fault...I could go on and on and on. Frighteningly good at math and have a photographic memory.

People aren't seen as individuals with their own hopes/desires/needs/future - they are literally there to serve his needs. If he no longer needs something from them - disposal begins. For CW his means of disposal was murder. For me it has been a prolonged sort of torture going in to its 6th year now where my ex has done EVERYTHING he can to erase me besides the actual murder. My ex, no doubt, has a Cluster B personality disorder and I see the same in CW.

Ohhh and there's a very unhealthy relationship with the dominant Mother and Father is a very flawed and weak dude.

So sorry you had to go through that. It's a hideous experience for sure and I can relate. You might find the article I posted from Psychology Today about malignant narcissism to be very interesting.
 
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