GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #70

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MollyDDD said:
After seeing so many photographs of those happy, sweet and adorable girls through out their short lives, they are embedded in my mind. And I often think about them and Shanann on that dreadful morning. Woken up in the wee hours of the morning to the sounds of fighting...seeing Mommy wrapped in a sheet...no breakfast, still in their PJ’s and bare feet...loaded onto the backseat, no car seats, Mommy lying still at their feet...it’s dark outside...they’re scared and crying as Daddy drives like a mad man with his sick devil music blasting. Just unimaginable horror.
There is no forgiveness for what he did and this will define him forever.
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I was with you up until the "sick, devil music." Metallica, IF that's even who was listening to at the time, is a band that's been around for more than 40 years. Their music may not be everyone's cup of tea, but they're hardly "devil's music." That sounds like something parents were telling their kids back in the early 80s when they didn't want their teenagers to listen to it. The band members are actually really great with many charities and they're well-respected in the music industry for being nice, professional people. Classic heavy metal is hardly along the same line as music that really DOES sing about dark subjects or the devil-for that you'd need to turn to Horrorcore or Death Rap. Almost everything CW did was heinous and imaginable, but IMO that's no reason to criticize Metallica over it. It's not their fault CW liked them. And who knows? The girls had grown up with their parents fans of the group-that music may have meant something else them altogether. It was familiar to them.

And I'm not even a fan-I prefer bluegrass and Americana.
 
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MDMNL said:
And I disagree again. I was replying to what was going through his mind while he was driving with his dead wife on the floor of his truck and two young children in the back seat, one of which was talking to him.... So everyone thinks Chris had time to think about NK during this trip when he was probably thinking of how to dispose of his wife's body, keep his child calm, drive down the road, think up alibi's....wonder if those pictures was an alibi plan? Remember his text while at SW memorial service? (funeral)? He told her he was overseas? Who knows the lies he told her with those pics being taken?

Who knows....but thinking of his mistress at this point was probably the last thing on his mind. IMHO at the end of the day she was JUST SEX.... SEX is not love, though maybe he isn't equating that at the time, it's still just that.

I was not speaking after the fact though. Sure he could have been thinkin NK after the fact.... However I really really do not believe at the time he had his dead wife in the truck with his children driving to a place where he needed a plan and alibi, all the whilst stirring in in emotion of anger, she was at the forefront of his mind.... he killed his kids for GOD's sake....was he thinking on NK and their sex and lovey dovey relationship while strangling two innocent children? I think NOT...sry I don't buy that NK was on his mind at all at that moment in time.
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Doesnt make sense to me. What gives you the idea he was thinking about a "plan and alibi"? He spent that 45 minutes "stirring in emotion of anger and SW was at the forefront of his mind?" The one he stuffed into the narrow back seat floorboards and put plastic sacks over her head and feet? The whole action of offing his family was to stop nk's anger at his lack of action towards any divorce, imo.

He wasn't driving around aimlessly, clouded by his anger towards his murdered wife who had prayed and forgiven him while he murdered her, while lying there placidly. He went straight to his worksite, after having told his co-workers not to come, that he would take care of the leaking valve.
He wasn't angry at his wife when he murdered her and his kids, he was ridding himself of obstacles. If there was anger at his wife, i think it came from his mistress.
 
NuttMegg said:
Doesnt make sense to me.
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Does anything in this case make sense to you? You are placing your mind and a normal person's thoughts into the head of a man who just murdered his wife and will murder his children in 30 mins or so whilst he's making this journey. Did I say he was thinking nice thoughts about his wife? NO. I was saying "thinking about disposing her body" in the first paragraph of my statement.

Do you think there was a possibility of anger in this man's heart? At his wife leaving with his three children? Just because SW is deceased does not mean we cannot say that he was angry at her. What does this man have to lose by lying at this point?

Exactly: "What gives you the idea he was thinking about a "Plan and Alibi"? My answer sadly is a posed question to you: "What makes you think that he wasn't?"
Wouldn't you be?

I never once said he was driving around aimlessly.... you put those words there. You can be numb, in a moment where nothing seems like it's real or really happening, drive down the road to a particular destination all the whilst you are angry. It's possible for someone to do. Too, if he wasn't thinking of a plan or alibi then when did he tell that coworker not to come (I know it was stated somewhere in trial and by the witnesses I just don't remember if it was the day before or that morning) If it was that morning...while he was driving to the site, then he was thinking and planning. NK was not on his mind.

"Ridding himself of obstacles" is harsh. How do we know that that is what was in this man's heart? How? There is a knower of hearts and it is not any human. If he was angry, could there be a minute possibility that he wanted to rid himself of the person or objects that was stirring up that emotion? Is there any possibility?

All my opinion of course.
 
MDMNL said:
And I disagree again. I was replying to what was going through his mind while he was driving with his dead wife on the floor of his truck and two young children in the back seat, one of which was talking to him.... So everyone thinks Chris had time to think about NK during this trip when he was probably thinking of how to dispose of his wife's body, keep his child calm, drive down the road, think up alibi's....wonder if those pictures was an alibi plan? Remember his text while at SW memorial service? (funeral)? He told her he was overseas? Who knows the lies he told her with those pics being taken?

Who knows....but thinking of his mistress at this point was probably the last thing on his mind. IMHO at the end of the day she was JUST SEX.... SEX is not love, though maybe he isn't equating that at the time, it's still just that.

I was not speaking after the fact though. Sure he could have been thinkin NK after the fact.... However I really really do not believe at the time he had his dead wife in the truck with his children driving to a place where he needed a plan and alibi, all the whilst stirring in in emotion of anger, she was at the forefront of his mind.... he killed his kids for GOD's sake....was he thinking on NK and their sex and lovey dovey relationship while strangling two innocent children? I think NOT...sry I don't buy that NK was on his mind at all at that moment in time.
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MDMNL said:
Does anything in this case make sense to you? You are placing your mind and a normal person's thoughts into the head of a man who just murdered his wife and will murder his children in 30 mins or so whilst he's making this journey. Did I say he was thinking nice thoughts about his wife? NO. I was saying "thinking about disposing her body" in the first paragraph of my statement.

Do you think there was a possibility of anger in this man's heart? At his wife leaving with his three children? Just because SW is deceased does not mean we cannot say that he was angry at her. What does this man have to lose by lying at this point?

Exactly: "What gives you the idea he was thinking about a "Plan and Alibi"? My answer sadly is a posed question to you: "What makes you think that he wasn't?"
Wouldn't you be?

I never once said he was driving around aimlessly.... you put those words there. You can be numb, in a moment where nothing seems like it's real or really happening, drive down the road to a particular destination all the whilst you are angry. It's possible for someone to do. Too, if he wasn't thinking of a plan or alibi then when did he tell that coworker not to come (I know it was stated somewhere in trial and by the witnesses I just don't remember if it was the day before or that morning) If it was that morning...while he was driving to the site, then he was thinking and planning. NK was not on his mind.

"Ridding himself of obstacles" is harsh. How do we know that that is what was in this man's heart? How? There is a knower of hearts and it is not any human. If he was angry, could there be a minute possibility that he wanted to rid himself of the person or objects that was stirring up that emotion? Is there any possibility?

All my opinion of course.
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Oh, it sounded like you were blaming Shan'ann for what you say is his anger at her. And, by extension, blaming her for the murders because he was angry at her.

When did CW text to NK during SW's funeral that he was overseas? I'm confused about who you say texted during SW's funeral that he was overseas, and what pics you're referring to.
 
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MDMNL said:
And I disagree again. I was replying to what was going through his mind while he was driving with his dead wife on the floor of his truck and two young children in the back seat, one of which was talking to him.... So everyone thinks Chris had time to think about NK during this trip when he was probably thinking of how to dispose of his wife's body, keep his child calm, drive down the road, think up alibi's....wonder if those pictures was an alibi plan? Remember his text while at SW memorial service? (funeral)? He told her he was overseas? Who knows the lies he told her with those pics being taken?

Who knows....but thinking of his mistress at this point was probably the last thing on his mind. IMHO at the end of the day she was JUST SEX.... SEX is not love, though maybe he isn't equating that at the time, it's still just that.

I was not speaking after the fact though. Sure he could have been thinkin NK after the fact.... However I really really do not believe at the time he had his dead wife in the truck with his children driving to a place where he needed a plan and alibi, all the whilst stirring in in emotion of anger, she was at the forefront of his mind.... he killed his kids for GOD's sake....was he thinking on NK and their sex and lovey dovey relationship while strangling two innocent children? I think NOT...sry I don't buy that NK was on his mind at all at that moment in time.
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Are you thinking of Scott Peterson?? (bbm)
 
I think he took 11 tests in general (perhaps MMPI etc) - not 11 IQ tests. If he repeatedly took IQ tests, the results are completely invalid.

I thought differently about them asking if he'd like them to pass along a message to NK. I thought they were trying to take his temperature when it comes to her, not really pass along a message. Like if he had said yes and then provided them with a message of longing, love or regret etc. that would tell them an awful lot about where his brain is and was.

MCDRAW said:
I couldn't really pay attention to him for getting angry listening to the detectives. I didn't like it the first time, and really feel they caused Shanann's family a lot of pain by even suggesting to CW that he killed Shanann because she did something to the girls. I could understand it the first time because they needed to find them. This time, I got the impression that they really liked him. And offering to tell NK stuff went way too far, in my opinion. The truth is there was no need to play up to him, he has already been convicted and sentenced. I know others think differently about the detectives. This is just my opinion.
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MDMNL said:
Does anything in this case make sense to you? You are placing your mind and a normal person's thoughts into the head of a man who just murdered his wife and will murder his children in 30 mins or so whilst he's making this journey. Did I say he was thinking nice thoughts about his wife? NO. I was saying "thinking about disposing her body" in the first paragraph of my statement.

Do you think there was a possibility of anger in this man's heart? At his wife leaving with his three children? Just because SW is deceased does not mean we cannot say that he was angry at her. What does this man have to lose by lying at this point?

Exactly: "What gives you the idea he was thinking about a "Plan and Alibi"? My answer sadly is a posed question to you: "What makes you think that he wasn't?"
Wouldn't you be?

I never once said he was driving around aimlessly.... you put those words there. You can be numb, in a moment where nothing seems like it's real or really happening, drive down the road to a particular destination all the whilst you are angry. It's possible for someone to do. Too, if he wasn't thinking of a plan or alibi then when did he tell that coworker not to come (I know it was stated somewhere in trial and by the witnesses I just don't remember if it was the day before or that morning) If it was that morning...while he was driving to the site, then he was thinking and planning. NK was not on his mind.

"Ridding himself of obstacles" is harsh. How do we know that that is what was in this man's heart? How? There is a knower of hearts and it is not any human. If he was angry, could there be a minute possibility that he wanted to rid himself of the person or objects that was stirring up that emotion? Is there any possibility?

All my opinion of course.
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BBM

There was no trial; CW pled guilty. CW texted KR on Sunday, the day before the murders, approx 5 p.m. and told him he would go to CERVI straight from his house in the morning and that there was no sense in both of them going out there.

PDF pg 390, Discovery pg 443
 
MDMNL said:
Does anything in this case make sense to you? You are placing your mind and a normal person's thoughts into the head of a man who just murdered his wife and will murder his children in 30 mins or so whilst he's making this journey. Did I say he was thinking nice thoughts about his wife? NO. I was saying "thinking about disposing her body" in the first paragraph of my statement.

Do you think there was a possibility of anger in this man's heart? At his wife leaving with his three children? Just because SW is deceased does not mean we cannot say that he was angry at her. What does this man have to lose by lying at this point?

Exactly: "What gives you the idea he was thinking about a "Plan and Alibi"? My answer sadly is a posed question to you: "What makes you think that he wasn't?"
Wouldn't you be?

I never once said he was driving around aimlessly.... you put those words there. You can be numb, in a moment where nothing seems like it's real or really happening, drive down the road to a particular destination all the whilst you are angry. It's possible for someone to do. Too, if he wasn't thinking of a plan or alibi then when did he tell that coworker not to come (I know it was stated somewhere in trial and by the witnesses I just don't remember if it was the day before or that morning) If it was that morning...while he was driving to the site, then he was thinking and planning. NK was not on his mind.

"Ridding himself of obstacles" is harsh. How do we know that that is what was in this man's heart? How? There is a knower of hearts and it is not any human. If he was angry, could there be a minute possibility that he wanted to rid himself of the person or objects that was stirring up that emotion? Is there any possibility?

All my opinion of course.
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Honestly, it sounds like you're the one who's measuring this person's actions by your own inner life. I think a lot of people are trying to understand objectively what these murders look like in terms of how the people who work in the field do. There's no reason I can see to impute all the emotion to him that you're describing. The investigators themselves were troubled by his longstanding lack of emotion.

When someone has done the incredibly inhumane things he did, there is likely to be a harsh assessment. That is about coming to terms with reality.

And as for something that came up quite a few posts ago, it is not the case that just anyone is capable of murder. The etymology of the term murder is about not just killing, but doing so originally in a secret and dishonorable way. Although society has evolved on exactly what makes killing dishonorable, the law still reflects that killing in self-defense is different, as is killing by accident, or killing by negligence. Murder is something different, and I can guarantee you that I'm not capable of it, nor are most people I know. It is not normal, to go through with murder runs counter to basic human instincts, and that is why the very highest punishments are reserved for murder. To do it to your wife and your kids is still another level of horror that most people cannot wrap their heads around and would be entirely incapable of doing.
 
mtnlites said:
I don't think he was "mean" to them, per se, I think he was probably just very cold. I think he may have gone through the actions of caring for them, but there were no emotions behind those actions. He was probably too concerned with NK. By the time he'd decided that he no longer needed or wanted his family, I think his emotions towards them were just gone. And I think the girls probably felt this.
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That in it self is mean. MOO
 
Huge Metallica fan here going back to my teens. Saw them in concert many times even as an adult. While I don't believe it is "devil's music," it is what most people put on to get out angst/drown out other noise etc.


mtnlites said:
I was with you up until the "sick, devil music." Metallica, IF that's even who was listening to at the time, is a band that's been around for more than 40 years. Their music may not be everyone's cup of tea, but they're hardly "devil's music." That sounds like something parents were telling their kids back in the early 80s when they didn't want their teenagers to listen to it. The band members are actually really great with many charities and they're well-respected in the music industry for being nice, professional people. Classic heavy metal is hardly along the same line as music that really DOES sing about dark subjects or the devil-for that you'd need to turn to Horrorcore or Death Rap. Almost everything CW did was heinous and imaginable, but IMO that's no reason to criticize Metallica over it. It's not their fault CW liked them. And who knows? The girls had grown up with their parents fans of the group-that music may have meant something else them altogether. It was familiar to them.

And I'm not even a fan-I prefer bluegrass and Americana.
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NuttMegg said:
Oh, it sounded like you were blaming Shan'ann for what you say is his anger at her. And, by extension, blaming her for the murders because he was angry at her.

When did CW text to NK during SW's funeral that he was overseas? I'm confused about who you say texted during SW's funeral that he was overseas, and what pics you're referring to.
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No I never would I personally blame SW for any of this. This was a classic case of HIM ABUSING her. Abusers BLAME their victims, in his mind he probably was justifying his own behavior of why he killed her....blaming her.... "Why did YOU do this...." Very, very, common among abusers no matter what their mental health evaluation comes up with: an abuser is an abuser. In that truck, in that moment, he's probably talking to himself as well...

She did NOTHING wrong.

As far as that text (which included a picture to NK and him claiming to be somewhere other than being at SW either funeral or memorial service) I'd have to find that unless another member knows where to find it … could take me a few days to look over everything I've read and watched.
 
MollyDDD said:
After seeing so many photographs of those happy, sweet and adorable girls through out their short lives, they are embedded in my mind. And I often think about them and Shanann on that dreadful morning. Woken up in the wee hours of the morning to the sounds of fighting...seeing Mommy wrapped in a sheet...no breakfast, still in their PJ’s and bare feet...loaded onto the backseat, no car seats, Mommy lying still at their feet...it’s dark outside...they’re scared and crying as Daddy drives like a mad man with his sick devil music blasting. Just unimaginable horror.
There is no forgiveness for what he did and this will define him forever.
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I don't know if I would call it sick devil music, but my favorite song by Metallica is "Unforgiven," which I think describes the way some might view Chris Watts at the present time.

Too bad he didn't listen to that song before he carried out his horrific plans.
 
What was the reason the LE brought Sandy up like they did? It was kind of like bad mouthing her. I was a little taken aback by that.
 
MDMNL said:
No I never would I personally blame SW for any of this. This was a classic case of HIM ABUSING her. Abusers BLAME their victims, in his mind he probably was justifying his own behavior of why he killed her....blaming her.... "Why did YOU do this...." Very, very, common among abusers no matter what their mental health evaluation comes up with: an abuser is an abuser. In that truck, in that moment, he's probably talking to himself as well...

She did NOTHING wrong.

As far as that text (which included a picture to NK and him claiming to be somewhere other than being at SW either funeral or memorial service) I'd have to find that unless another member knows where to find it … could take me a few days to look over everything I've read and watched.
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CW did not attend SW's memorial service - he was in jail.

If you're thinking of the LP case, SP called (not texted) AF from a candlelight vigil (not funeral) for Laci and said he was in Paris on a business trip.

MOO
 
Colorfuel said:
Honestly, it sounds like you're the one who's measuring this person's actions by your own inner life. I think a lot of people are trying to understand objectively what these murders look like in terms of how the people who work in the field do. There's no reason I can see to impute all the emotion to him that you're describing. The investigators themselves were troubled by his longstanding lack of emotion.
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I most certainly am.

Objectively: in a way that is not influenced by personal feelings or opinions.

I see a lot of comments based off of personal feelings or opinions. Every bit of speculation of what happened in that 45 minute drive is all based off of personal feelings or opinions (whether it's the "experts" doing it or someone who isn't an "expert"). CW gave his testimony to what happened and in it he said he was angry. To the point "he's never felt that kind of anger before" and "that wasn't like him it was like someone else was controlling him". He and those girls were the only one's alive in the truck from point A to point B. No one is taking his word for it that he was angry.

So I'm not really measuring a person's actions based solely on my experiences here I am basing them off of his own testimony as to what happened as opposed to thinking the majority is right in this case. I use my own experience with the emotion of anger to draw off what Chris, himself, has said. We only have our own experiences and our own thoughts to place in this situation if we take the testimony of Chris Watts out. So to say others are looking at the case "objectively" is a bit obtuse.

No one has bothered to factor in that anger that CW said he had into the equation of his thoughts into that truck. When someone does indeed do that then it would be looked at as being objective.

Now if you claimed it's objective reasoning then that would be a different story. Objective Reasoning means reasoning according to a set of logical and objective standards, while subjective thinking refers to reasoning without objective standards.

But remember too NOTHING about this case, or any MURDER CASE, goes along the standards that there any sets of LOGIC behind any of his actions. None.

There is huge reason, at this point, to impute all the emotion to him that I do describe because his own testimony makes such a claim. To me you all are still trying to prove he's lying. He already has proven that he is very capable of lying. However, at this point, objectively looking at it, what does this man have to gain by lying?
 
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