CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #49 *ARREST*

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Cannot shake these feelings about KK and her actual involvement.
Bad move the deal the State made with her and this is not going to end in justice for Kelsey. I really hope I'm wrong.

Which brings my thoughts back around to the Watts case. Shanann's father said if he knew then what he knows now, he would not have approved taking death penalty off the table.

And perhaps if that was never done, he would have never been arrested and convicted as quickly as it happened without a trial.

There are no good answers, just pain for the families
 
This reminds me of the Jason Young case. Didn’t the wife’s family file for custody of their young daughter and got it, because he didn’t want to testify to anything during the custody hearings that could be used against him during a murder trial?

Excellent thought and point of view. I think most all of us agree that the primary thing right now, above ALL else, is that the baby is safe with HER family.

Her mother would have wanted it that way. In my opinion.

That is a strategy I had not considered, but it is one which fits very well. Thank you for that insight.
 
I'm behind on some things...who is SR? I mean, I know who she is, and a few things about her, but is LE considering her a POI? Do we know that the phone number listed in the docs is actually hers, and do we know why there may have been calls between that number and PF's?
 
I'm behind on some things...who is
If she washed his clothes and they were blood-stained, she has a lot of 'splainin' to do.
Certainly she should be charged as an accessory.
So we wait....
I was referring to his clothes in general,not blood stained , surely he would not be that stupid to take those home to a Momma but it is PF we post about.
 
Completely agree. I’m not a doctor. I think it’s complicated and involves several things (genetic, personality, nature, nuture, physical, emotional, who knows). What really perplexes and concerns me are the people who have never committed any type of crime before in their life, and then one day commit a really huge one. I mean no one is perfect, we all get frustrated by stuff, etc., but wow. Whethet they snap one day, or it builds (and other people don’t suspect anything is seriously wrong), or whatever. How in the world.

I believe (personal experience and reading/study) that some of these folks who "snap" w/o previous criminal record is due to several things.

1. Maybe they have committed previous crimes, but have *not been caught*, hence, no record.

2. Their "crimes" are not something they can be arrested for; i.e. causing emotional pain, using people, etc.

3. They are smart enough to limit their "criminality"; i.e. they stop whatever the action/behavior is just prior to actually committing a criminal act.
 
This may sound very callous, but there are times when I don't understand our form of incarceration.

When someone commits a crime, we often want to punish them. And yet, for many criminals, punishment is nothing...it does nothing, it accomplishes nothing, and often it makes them WORSE criminals. Punishment is moot, IMO the goal should be keeping that individual from committing crime.

Why do we waste time and resources? Why not just lock them up for good, with minimal care (human treatment with the min. of resources used)?
 
This may sound very callous, but there are times when I don't understand our form of incarceration.

When someone commits a crime, we often want to punish them. And yet, for many criminals, punishment is nothing...it does nothing, it accomplishes nothing, and often it makes them WORSE criminals. Punishment is moot, IMO the goal should be keeping that individual from committing crime.

Why do we waste time and resources? Why not just lock them up for good, with minimal care (human treatment with the min. of resources used)?
I think it depends on the crime. A person who has a drug problem and is arrested for running drugs or possession can certainly be rehabilitated. Lots of people who have broken the law at some point have gone on to be successful.
But yes, someone who intentionally commits murder should probably spend their life in prison. Imo
 
I think it depends on the crime. A person who has a drug problem and is arrested for running drugs or possession can certainly be rehabilitated. Lots of people who have broken the law at some point have gone on to be successful.
But yes, someone who intentionally commits murder should probably spend their life in prison. Imo
Deliberate, unremorseful murder should get the murderer locked up for life w/no possibility of parole, IMHO.
 
I believe (personal experience and reading/study) that some of these folks who "snap" w/o previous criminal record is due to several things.

1. Maybe they have committed previous crimes, but have *not been caught*, hence, no record.

2. Their "crimes" are not something they can be arrested for; i.e. causing emotional pain, using people, etc.

3. They are smart enough to limit their "criminality"; i.e. they stop whatever the action/behavior is just prior to actually committing a criminal act.

ITA - I would also add:
4. They have had family and/or friends covering and making excuses for them.
 
And when you sleuth the phone number, it's the same number as KK's cell phone. SR comes up along with KK. I ws thinking it was SR's number before it was KK's. MOO

I think KK used it regardless of where it came from which I guess is all that matters. I have googled PF's and it comes up to his mother probably because she owns the account so there are various possibilities, I tried the same with numbers under my account, one of which we transferred. Regardless I think she was the user, whether she obtained the phone from someone at some point or it was a newly given number to KK that used to exist for SR. That is the problem for those sites including no dates, etc. jmo.

ETA: Changed he to she
 
Last edited:
ITA - I would also add:
4. They have had family and/or friends covering and making excuses for them.
I struggle when these discussions turn this way. I also rankle a bit when I hear psychopath or sociopath tossed around with ease.

I can only speak from personal experience, and know singular examples are meaningless in complex issues. However, at the same time we have to filter through the life experience we have.

My biological creator was diagnosed as ASPD, with all the whispers associated of psychopathy. He met the criteria listed and discussed in previous threads to have this diagnosis. Further, the last 37 years of his life was spent in a State Mental Hospital, State Prison or halfway house.

My dear mother, much like women we discuss on here, had struggled with lower self esteem, and fell hook line and sinker for his charm. Fortunately, she was able to recognize and part ways before the most destructive things occurred. Depending on your nature or nurture view though, fortunate, or unfortunately, not before having 5 children carrying these genetics.

Being open minded and very forward thinking, my mother spent enormous resources in time, money and counseling to try and make sure the very best outcome was possible for her children. Currently the score is 5-0 in favor of the counseling overcoming the genetics, fingers crossed we range in age from 38 to 50 so still some time left in the game. However, I can tell you my cousins on that side of the family has generated at least one murderer and numerous drug using socially disruptive souls. They had no counseling and refused to think the family may have any problems.

Personally, I relate very much with the post that @Seattle posted about "a psychopath knows the words but not the music." To this day empathy is not automatic for me, it is something I recognize is necessary, and then work hard to implement. I manage, but my family likes to say if you need logic ask dad, if you need feelings ask mom.
 
Completely agree. I’m not a doctor. I think it’s complicated and involves several things (genetic, personality, nature, nuture, physical, emotional, who knows). What really perplexes and concerns me are the people who have never committed any type of crime before in their life, and then one day commit a really huge one. I mean no one is perfect, we all get frustrated by stuff, etc., but wow. Whethet they snap one day, or it builds (and other people don’t suspect anything is seriously wrong), or whatever. How in the world.
Getting arrested for a crime is only one measure of criminality. A person could equally display really poor behavior towards others or society in general and not have an arrest record. What you see is a pattern of decisions making throughout their lives. There may not be an arrest but their behavior shows the same as it takes to be a repeat offender. You see it in the disregard for their committed relationships, self-centerness, manipulation, blaming others, transference, etc. I would say most criminals at the ones yet caught...
 
When the nurse was done with the cleanup, didn't she put some full plastic trash bags by the street and went and got her car and picked them up? What did she do with them? Did she put them in a dumpster? Maybe the police are searching the dump for these also (including the missing floor mat.)

Not sure if this was answered yet, but no, everyone has their individual trash left at the end of driveway.
 
After re-reading the SW, I believe the drafting of relevant warrant "Attach A" only added to the confusion here.

While there certainly may be an additional surveillance camera not disclosed at this time, I believe there may be another explanation.

SW 18-111 Attach A (pgs 11-12) indicates the Arlo surveillance camera videos (stored on cloud server) are only saved for 7 days prior unless the user manually downloads them.

On 11-25-18, at request of CB, WPPD reportedly forced entry to KB's home to do a welfare check. I believe it was around this date that investigators first became aware of neighbors surveillance, and also video showing PF, KB, baby, and flowers entering and re-entering condo on 11-22-18.

I further believe investigators were provided manual download of this surveillance at this time-- especially given the the neighbors service (free service) would not save the video in the cloud past 7 days or 11-29-18.

SW 18-111 also provides that on 12-7-18, Corporal Koski met with neighbor LJ, and viewed all available video on
12-7 (viewing via neighbors cell phone). Koski reported the footage available was limited to 12-1-18 UPS package, and
12-3-18 RS package pick up.

It follows that on 12-7-18, Corporal Koski could only see surveillance for 12-1, 12-3-18 (and not 11-22 to 11-29-18) given the prior 7 day storage limitation of the service without manually download and save by user.

I trust the most critical 11-22-18 video surveillance was viewed and saved by investigators prior to Corporal Koski's 12-7-18 canvasing with neighbors.

I'm confident the prosecution has this evidence safe and secure.

MOO
On 11-25-18, at request of CB, WPPD reportedly forced entry to KB's home to do a welfare check. I believe it was around this date that investigators first became aware of neighbors surveillance, and also video showing PF, KB, baby, and flowers entering and re-entering condo on 11-22-18.
Here is again. 11-25-18 well fare check.
What the French toast? Didn't WWPD claim said well fare check did not happen?
 
I think it depends on the crime. A person who has a drug problem and is arrested for running drugs or possession can certainly be rehabilitated. Lots of people who have broken the law at some point have gone on to be successful.
But yes, someone who intentionally commits murder should probably spend their life in prison. Imo

I've know people who have lost family members due to drug use, and once arrested, their supplier is not remorseful, and fully intends (and has, often) going right back to the same-o-same-o to make money.

Some of these people who are suppliers, and some users too, are as bad as the CW's and PF's of the world.

It's partly the crime and partly the attitude. IMO, we need better, for lack of a better word, "discovery" in terms of who these people are when it comes to rehabilitating and parole.
 
I struggle when these discussions turn this way. I also rankle a bit when I hear psychopath or sociopath tossed around with ease.

I can only speak from personal experience, and know singular examples are meaningless in complex issues. However, at the same time we have to filter through the life experience we have.

My biological creator was diagnosed as ASPD, with all the whispers associated of psychopathy. He met the criteria listed and discussed in previous threads to have this diagnosis. Further, the last 37 years of his life was spent in a State Mental Hospital, State Prison or halfway house.

My dear mother, much like women we discuss on here, had struggled with lower self esteem, and fell hook line and sinker for his charm. Fortunately, she was able to recognize and part ways before the most destructive things occurred. Depending on your nature or nurture view though, fortunate, or unfortunately, not before having 5 children carrying these genetics.

Being open minded and very forward thinking, my mother spent enormous resources in time, money and counseling to try and make sure the very best outcome was possible for her children. Currently the score is 5-0 in favor of the counseling overcoming the genetics, fingers crossed we range in age from 38 to 50 so still some time left in the game. However, I can tell you my cousins on that side of the family has generated at least one murderer and numerous drug using socially disruptive souls. They had no counseling and refused to think the family may have any problems.

Personally, I relate very much with the post that @Seattle posted about "a psychopath knows the words but not the music." To this day empathy is not automatic for me, it is something I recognize is necessary, and then work hard to implement. I manage, but my family likes to say if you need logic ask dad, if you need feelings ask mom.

God bless you and the people who have helped!!! There are some really interesting things going on within the teaching/learning field in regards to helping teach empathy to children who lack it. Later, if anyone is interested, I'll see if I can find the links and share.
 
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