GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #71

[pinkie60]

I hardly ever post, but I just finished listening to the interview with the detectives.

It took me a few days to get through the interview. I was disturbed by the jovial nature of the conversation, by all parties involved. I know they were just trying to get more details from him, but it was sometimes unpleasant to hear the laughing and overall chummy banter.

My mind went back and forth, as to whether he was telling the truth. I think he was truthful at times but not completely, as most of us feel here at WS. One of the things that impacted me was, toward the end of the interview, when he said he told his teacher that he went to China on summer vacation and she believed him. He seemed proud of that, and I thought it was a very strange thing to bring up. Seems good at lying and being believed?

Personally, I think it is unlikely that they had sex that night. The way he answered the questions pertaining to that subject was a bit sketchy. I think the breakup conversation happened, and she was distraught. He was angry (for all of the reasons he bought up in the interview, family conflict, Shannann being dominant, etc) and he truly did not love her anymore. He was in love with Nichol, with whom he could ‘be himself’... for the first time in his life, and that is all the motive he needed to carry out the actions that followed. He keeps talking about how he wishes that he could have stopped the affair. I don’t believe that for a second. He wanted the family gone, for Nichol. That was the true, deep motive. Simple.

The circumstances with the daughters is truly heinous, and I can hardly think about the scenario. I was shocked by those details. He keeps saying he didn’t know what he was doing that night. He did. He wanted to be with Nichol. That is it.

I did note that he seems somewhat accepting of his new life in prison. Maybe he doesn’t want the responsibility of living life ‘on the ‘outside’. He did say he was one to sit back and go with the flow.

I sometimes think he was lying about the kids. I would think they would be crying hysterically for their mommy and trying to wake her up all the way to the oil field. Can't see them falling asleep in each other's laps.

 

[MemPat]

The answer is, yes. You'd be surprised how many forensic psychologists are Ph.Ds. Also, the counties might contract known neuropsychologists to perform tests.

It is another thing that we don't know whether CW read through the official report and sat down with a neuropsychologist to discuss the results. If not, if he just heard some number from them, what he cited may not be valid.

In either case, we are comparing the inconsistencies in the interview of a person who is in 23-hour isolation with the results of his IQ. His IQ (if we are to believe the numbers) merely states that on a given day, he performed on some standardized intellectual tests better than, say, 98% of the population (depending on what his IQ really is). His IQ results can predict how well he can do in college and, maybe, what kind of a job he can potentially handle, but even this is a stretch.

His IQ can not predict his behavior, acts of violence, or the explanations he chooses to provide.

There are lots of questions about that night that we would like to know, but I doubt that even the factual part could ever be restored. As to the motivations, it is one big "?"

I seriously question the use of taxpayer funds to determine the IQ of a murderer who is never going to leave lock-up.

The hourly rate of a neuropsychologist would have to be pretty steep.

What possible gain would the knowledge of Chris Watts' IQ have for society?

It gave a lowlife a moment of glory and for what?

 

[pinkie60]

The answer is, yes. You'd be surprised how many forensic psychologists are Ph.Ds. Also, the counties might contract known neuropsychologists to perform tests.

It is another thing that we don't know whether CW read through the official report and sat down with a neuropsychologist to discuss the results. If not, if he just heard some number from them, what he cited may not be valid.

In either case, we are comparing the inconsistencies in the interview of a person who is in 23-hour isolation with the results of his IQ. His IQ (if we are to believe the numbers) merely states that on a given day, he performed on some standardized intellectual tests better than, say, 98% of the population (depending on what his IQ really is). His IQ results can predict how well he can do in college and, maybe, what kind of a job he can potentially handle, but even this is a stretch.

His IQ can not predict his behavior, acts of violence, or the explanations he chooses to provide.

There are lots of questions about that night that we would like to know, but I doubt that even the factual part could ever be restored. As to the motivations, it is one big "?"

Shanann said he was sooo smart

 

[nope]

And she was pregnant and would likely have done anything to protect the baby growing inside her too.
Chris Watt's lies are so obvious and stupid that I think he got his IQ score from a fortune cookie.

moo

Yeah, Chris, those are actually lottery numbers, not your IQ.

 

[AvaGrace]

I think Dude is surprised all the way around. I don't think he expected anyone to miss his wife so soon. Then I don't think he expected all the attention LE gave it. Then he was apparently surprised that he got LWOP. Bemused at the inmates taunting him. I think that either speaks to the general way in which he's so dissociated from the crime (and his family) that he has a hard time seeing what all the fuss is about OR, as our favorite vocal-fry mistress said, that cheese done went and slid off his cracker. (paraphrase)

I can't believe he thought he was only going to get a short prison term for taking four lives!! He stated at last interview that he was shocked at the length of prison time he was given..LWOP. This really is delusional.

 

[AvaGrace]

This dirt-bag lied so many times , how do we know that this version is the truth? If he had have straddled her then strangled her surely she would have fought for her life yet there were no signs she did, more likely he did it to her when she was in a deep sleep, she must have been exhausted from her trip and late return?

I agree. I think she was in a deep sleep when he strangled her. The video of SW walking up the step and into her house shows a very exhausted pregnant woman. She hadn't been eating or sleeping, she had a long delay, she wasn't feeling well, etc. I also don't believe they had sex.
SW left her suitcase at the bottom of the stairs because she was too tired to carry it upstairs. She didn't even take off her makeup. I believe she went straight to bed and was in a deep sleep when he strangled her. Hence, no defensive wounds.
I hope that CW rots in that prison but hopefully the other inmates get to him first!!

 

[nells]

I thought it was just audio recorded. Did you read somewhere that there is video? Would love to see that!
MOO

Yes, in the interview transcript, Tammy Lee writes that they spent time arranging both covert audio AND video recording devices. It’s written in the first few pages before the conversation w/ Chris starts: p. 3 of redacted document, paragraph 4:

“Upon arrival to the prison, we were escorted into a large open room, which the staff referred to as the “computer room.” The room contained empty cubicles with chairs (no computers), which lined the walls. We activated our covert digital recording devices and also used several covert video recording devices.”

 

[AvaGrace]

I think I've been making an error...? Jim came on Monday afternoon , not Sunday? I was thinking he was her alibi for early Monday a.m. Puzzling cuz I had sure thought jim came sunday, but nk clearly says monday, around the time she got off work, 3:45 ish.

Wow. I agree with you. I thought Jim came late Sunday or early Monday morning. I was under the impression that he was her alibi witness. In her interview with LE, she was very evasive about all info about Jim. She wouldn't even tell his last name. Her remarks about Jim were hard to follow because she kept jumping around and not giving a straight answer. I kept wondering why LE didn't pin her down on the exact time and his last name. Of course, this is also when her father jumped in and said Jim was a old family friend. However, I still think LE could have did a better job on that interview!! Too many important questions were not asked.

 

[AvaGrace]

https://assets.documentcloud.org/do...pher-Watts-Redacted-Interview-Feb-18-2019.pdf
From page 26
(With regard to if WATTS spoke to KESSINGER after the murders.)

He spoke to KESSINGER on Monday, August 13, 2018.
He and KESSINGER texted and then spoke on the phone.
KESSINGER said she believed SHANANN took off with his daughters.
On Tuesday, August 14, 2018, KESSINGER kept asking him “weird” questions through textmessage to try and determine if it was really him.
KESSINGER asked him what his dog’s name was and what yoga studio he went to.
It was possible KESSINGER believed SHANANN had his cellphone and she was making sure.
KESSINGER told him it was the last time he would hear from her and she was going to stay with her friend, JIM.
KESSINGER told him not to contact her “until this is done.”
KESSINGER told him to delete everything on his cellphone.
He didn’t delete everything from KESSINGER and he is not sure why.
​

IIRC CW actually said in the interview that NK asked him the name of HER dog and what yoga studio SHE went to. She seemed to be confirming his identity via text BEFORE she asked him to delete everything on his phone.

It also wouldn't have been possible that Shanann had his phone if CW told NK the day before that Shanann had left, so that part doesn't make any sense. I can't remember if CW actually said that or if it was another error from the person who redacted the interview.

It just seems really strange that NK was so paranoid the day after they went missing that she thought law enforcement already had access to CW's phone. It also seems strange that NK told him not to contact her "until this is done".

Or is it all just more lies and nonsense from CW?
MOO

I also thought it was strange that two people, CW and NK, who couldn't stay away from each other without texting constantly or having face time for hours had no contact on Sunday. This is so out of character for both of them. After all the texting they did daily while he was in NC, why was the pattern broken on this very important day!! It just seems rather strange. JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

I seriously question the use of taxpayer funds to determine the IQ of a murderer who is never going to leave lock-up.

The hourly rate of a neuropsychologist would have to be pretty steep.

What possible gain would the knowledge of Chris Watts' IQ have for society?

It gave a lowlife a moment of glory and for what?

I think IQ tests are standard procedure in prisons. Results are used for research, statistics, determining whether one is eligible to be executed, and as part of the Psych Eval.
Any licensed Psychologist can administer and score, and interpret test results.
It's not surprising Watts tested above average. His roommate reported he was a good student and all he did was study in college. One of his teachers said he had a "photographic memory." His co-workers commented on what a good memory he had. They called him "Rainman."
IQ tests don't measure common sense, empathy, or emotions. There are no questions about how it feels when someone loves you. If there were, CW would fail miserably.
Many killers have high IQ's. Jodi Arias, Scott Peterson, Edmund Kemper, and Jeffrey Mcdonald are just a few. Rodney Alcala had an IQ of 170! You would never guess after seeing his pathetic antics on the Dating Game.
Also, people who are highly manipulative tend to have high IQ's.
Watts probably spent his life studying how to mimic normal human behavior, and he fooled everybody.
In the mental health field, patients who are high functioning and manipulative are usually considered to be very intelligent. They are also the most challenging to work with! Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

I also thought it was strange that two people, CW and NK, who couldn't stay away from each other without texting constantly or having face time for hours had no contact on Sunday. This is so out of character for both of them. After all the texting they did daily while he was in NC, why was the pattern broken on this very important day!! It just seems rather strange. JMO

He was probably too busy plotting the murder of his family.
They did FT at one point near the time of the murder, and NK recalled that he seemed strange, that he was just staring at her. Imo

 

[boomburger]

According to the recently released five hour interview, Chris Watts is 'looking forward' to being in general population. Well mate, I get the feeling your prison buddies are, too.

 

[mtnlites]

I think IQ tests are standard procedure in prisons. Results are used for research, statistics, determining whether one is eligible to be executed, and as part of the Psych Eval.
Any licensed Psychologist can administer and score, and interpret test results.
It's not surprising Watts tested above average. His roommate reported he was a good student and all he did was study in college. One of his teachers said he had a "photographic memory." His co-workers commented on what a good memory he had. They called him "Rainman."
IQ tests don't measure common sense, empathy, or emotions. There are no questions about how it feels when someone loves you. If there were, CW would fail miserably.
Many killers have high IQ's. Jodi Arias, Scott Peterson, Edmund Kemper, and Jeffrey Mcdonald are just a few. Rodney Alcala had an IQ of 170! You would never guess after seeing his pathetic antics on the Dating Game.
Also, people who are highly manipulative tend to have high IQ's.
Watts probably spent his life studying how to mimic normal human behavior, and he fooled everybody.
In the mental health field, patients who are high functioning and manipulative are usually considered to be very intelligent. They are also the most challenging to work with! Imo

I may be in the minority here, but I support further research on some of these people. If we're going to learn about certain criminal behavior and disorders, then why not get as much out of these incarcerated psychos as we can? Ted Bundy provided a wealth of information on how certain thought processes work and he even "helped" with the investigation of the Green River Killer. Even when they're lying, there are things to be learned. If it helps with preventing future crimes, and the criminals are voluntarily open to such things, then I'm all for ongoing testing and studying.

I know that many people were uncomfortable with the laid back attitude that the investigators had with CW on the 18th, but even if 75% of what he said was a lie, I still think there are things to learn from his answers. Everything from his cavalier attitude to his chattiness to analyzing WHICH things he specifically lied about and WHY is, from an academic viewpoint anyway, interesting.

Maybe, in the future, there WILL be some sort of way that these family annihilators can be caught early enough. There didn't seem to be any warning signs from CW, but maybe that's just because we haven't learned to read them yet. We've had a huge advancement of psychology over the past 100 years. There are still things we don't know.

Don't get me wrong. When it comes to a list of things that disgust me, CW is right there between people who clearly had upset tummies and didn't flush the public toilet they used and infected cysts that suddenly erupt on their own. But if studying him, or others, could mean that the next Rzuceks get to keep their daughter and grandchildren, I'm on board.

 

[Colorfuel]

(Quoting @NuttMegg from previous thread
SBM. Absolutely nwmouse.
Here I am broadly characterizing what he said in his latest confession:
The kids and SW weren't around for a month so he wasn't constantly reminded of them. If they had taken a shorter trip he might not have murdered them. (paraphrased).

Since SW was gone for a month, and since he was able to basically ignore her texts, he was forced to hook up with NK to fill the void in his persona. He wasn't even that interested in sex, he just did it because she wanted to all the time.

He just shifted into a relationship where he became what she wanted him to be. He had never camped in his ENTIRE life, but now he liked it. etc etc. She was already into his finances, criticizing spending habits of his wife, etc. Choosing an apartment for him. Watching which CC he used. Planning to teach his girls how to paint flower pots. Reinforcing the plan to have his kids with him for 7-8 days at a time due to his upcoming new work schedule. (Did anyone happen to tell SW that he was planning to take the kids every other week?)

I could go on, as I mentioned a couple of days ago now he's in prison with no one to emulate or please, so suddenly the bible is his role model for the first time in thirty some years. Just as his Mom was. Anything to please, even if it's just an inanimate object residing in his cell.

Absolutely there is no one home there, he's whatever he thinks the other person in the room thinks he should be. And that's downright scary that grown people can just be completely empty and capable of murder as a result.

Please no offense to people who take the bible seriously and follow the precepts.

I ageee with you that he’s empty. Reading this, I had the thought that it’s even worse than you’re saying, because whereas in the interview he was implying that NK was the driver of everything in their affair, and that he didn’t care much about the sex, the cards he wrote to her tell a totally different story, with him love-bombing her very assertively and referring to physical connections with phrases like “all night” and the word “electric.”

I know I’m not pointing out anything new, but it really is striking to me how he indeed behaves passively at times but also paints himself as far more passive than he actually is.

Gross.

 

[PommyMommy]

Family of Shannan Watts say they couldn’t say goodbye or cremate Bella and Celeste because their bodies were ‘flammable’
The Rzuceks told Dr. Phil that the family was not able to cremate the remains of he girls because of the time they had spent in the oil tanks.

As reported by the Daily Mail, Frank Rzucek said that his family had gotten permission from the Watts family to bury Bella and Celeste with Shanann, but that they were never able to see the girls after their deaths because they had been immersed in oil for days before their bodies were found.

” …The hardest thing was flying them here, because they were in crude oil for four days. So they were flammable. So we couldn’t cremate them. They would have blown up a building,” Rzucek said on the show.

“They had to have a bigger coffin and then they had to seal it with a certain wrap, so the gasses wouldn’t leak out. That’s pretty sad, isn’t it? So we three here never got to say good-bye to our family or see them.”

 

[Nikynoo]

I also thought it was strange that two people, CW and NK, who couldn't stay away from each other without texting constantly or having face time for hours had no contact on Sunday. This is so out of character for both of them. After all the texting they did daily while he was in NC, why was the pattern broken on this very important day!! It just seems rather strange. JMO

They did have contact on the sunday. CW was at the birthday party with the girls and NK was out with her family. The content of those texts are in discovery.
ETA I cannot find the texts - I'm sure there were some about the food and the water fight. But i did find that they had a call between 9 and 11 pm - 'We discussed a phone call between NICHOL and CHRIS between 9pm and 11pm on Sunday night.' (discovery page 572)

 

[yawningreyhound]

Chris Watts is on suicide watch again after revealing that inmates tell him to kill himself | Daily Mail Online

This has always mystified me: Suicide Watch for prisoners. Especially LWOP.

Plus, he was yelled at at the previous prison, I thought, before they moved him. I just read the whole document and I thought for sure he was threatened in Colorado not Wisconsin, but maybe now that the transcript might've been released and the inmates have seen it, they're threatening him in WI, too?

 

[PommyMommy]

Yes, in the interview transcript, Tammy Lee writes that they spent time arranging both covert audio AND video recording devices. It’s written in the first few pages before the conversation w/ Chris starts: p. 3 of redacted document, paragraph 4:

“Upon arrival to the prison, we were escorted into a large open room, which the staff referred to as the “computer room.” The room contained empty cubicles with chairs (no computers), which lined the walls. We activated our covert digital recording devices and also used several covert video recording devices.”

Thank you, I completely missed that. I wonder if we will see the video someday. I'd really like to see the body language but on the other hand, I don't want him to have one more minute of air time.
MOO

 

[yawningreyhound]

I thought it was just audio recorded. Did you read somewhere that there is video? Would love to see that!
MOO

probably already answered, but in the beginning of the transcript, covert video was mentioned

 

[Nikynoo]

Chris Watts is on suicide watch again after revealing that inmates tell him to kill himself | Daily Mail Online

I dont believe this is correct. It is referencing what was said in the interview (about Weld County Jail), not where he is now. And as far as I'm aware, there has been no official update on his status since the most recent interview with LE.