CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #50 *ARREST*

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No I don't believe KK ever had a thought baby K was being abused by KB. As a nurse isn't she a mandatory reporter anyway?? I mean if she really wanted to play that card, she could have made a call to CPS.

I believe later in her plea agreement she did admit she really didn't believe it IIRC.
You are absolutely correct. When cornered she was like a deer in headlights. Her only excuse was so lame for being a solicitor to murder and she knew that.
She had no other argument but to say how he scared her into doing it .. yeah right!!
 
You are correct. From the Defense questioning of CBI Slater at the end of the Prelim, thread#39, page 105:

Sam Kraemer‏ @SamKraemerTV
Defense pointing out fact that Frazee never blatantly said he wanted Krystal to kill Kelsey Berreth. Slater agrees. Kenney felt like Frazee was just “pulling her chain”. Kenney is the one who suggested putting ambien in the macchiato. @KOAA #KrystalKenney#PatrickFrazee

That admission by CBI Agent Slater has huge ramifications. It pretty much ends the three solicitations charges, too. JMO

BBM:

Solicitation charges have not been dropped.

The only thing that's been dropped is my jaw...in response to this post.

JMO.
 
This is absolutely vile.

Custody came down to CB being fit and able to care for the baby.

The civil suit contains language that describes the emotional suffering that CB faced, after PF bashed her daughter’s face in with a baseball bat.

The two are not mutually exclusive, and provide absolutely no angle for the defense to attack.

Not unless they want the jury to hate them.

CB is suffering, but is not unable to care for the baby.

Thank God.
the key to heartbreak and trauma recovery.

PURPOSE.

a beautiful little granddaughter who needs her grandma.....would be getting CB through her days.
 
the key to heartbreak and trauma recovery.

PURPOSE.

a beautiful little granddaughter who needs her grandma.....would be getting CB through her days.
Exactly! I’m stunned that there is any criticism for her claiming extreme emotional distress from her daughter’s murder, and at the same time fighting for custody.

How about both?!
 
This is absolutely vile.

Custody came down to CB being fit and able to care for the baby.

The civil suit contains language that describes the emotional suffering that CB faced, after PF bashed her daughter’s face in with a baseball bat.

The two are not mutually exclusive, and provide absolutely no angle for the defense to attack.

Not unless they want the jury to hate them.

CB is suffering, but is not unable to care for the baby.

Thank God.
^THIS
 
Exactly! I’m stunned that there is any criticism, for her claiming extreme emotional distress from her daughter’s murder, and at the same time fighting for custody.

How about both?!

I'm struggling to make any sense out of the argument some are trying to make.

Is is seriously being suggested that if DB and CB were to show themselves to be completely unaffected by their daughter's brutal murder, that would somehow demonstrate to a court their fitness to care for and raise Baby K.?

Because for them to be completely unaffected by KB's murder, they'd have to be cold, unfeeling, heartless, sociopathic monsters. Like PF.

I'm baffled by this argument. Utterly befuddled.
Primarily because it's complete nonsense.

JMO.
 
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BBM:
I respectfully disagree. This case is not a simple custody battle case.

I think any sane jury with an ounce of empathy will understand that CB has been through absolute horror because her daughter was killed in such a heinous manner. Its absolutely normal for someone who has experienced loss due to a vile murder to experience grief and pain, appetite loss, sleep loss etc.

I think you may underestimate the intelligence of jurors to determine what is right in this specific case.

Grief does not mean CB's incapable of caring for her granddaughter - it just shows she's a normal, caring mother who has lost her daughter.

Would you rather have PF's mother get custody of Kaylee, or see her this vulnerable child go through the foster system?

The best place for Kaylee is with her maternal grandma and I think 99.9% of jurors or anyone with an ounce of common sense and compassion would agree.

moo
Beautifully and thoughtfully stated nwmouse.
 
BBM, what plan do you think PF had?

In regards to him leaving the cars behind:
This is absolutely just speculation but I had an idea that stems from the SW. MOO. When LE interviews RS he states check into “Eric” a pilot at Southwest Airlines. I’m thinking PF puts this idea into RS’s head (and I’m sure many others) that she has a boyfriend or is seeing someone new. Which also corroborates the story of PF saying she had dinner with a friend in Pueblo. PF then says we got into a fight and this guy picked her up. This eliminates the cumbersome ordeal for him to get rid of a car. In my opinion it’s not so easy to get rid of a big hunk of metal.
 
In regards to him leaving the cars behind:
This is absolutely just speculation but I had an idea that stems from the SW. MOO. When LE interviews RS he states check into “Eric” a pilot at Southwest Airlines. I’m thinking PF puts this idea into RS’s head (and I’m sure many others) that she has a boyfriend or is seeing someone new. Which also corroborates the story of PF saying she had dinner with a friend in Pueblo. PF then says we got into a fight and this guy picked her up. This eliminates the cumbersome ordeal for him to get rid of a car. In my opinion it’s not so easy to get rid of a big hunk of metal.
Good for us PF isn't a criminal mastermind after all :D
I think it's a shame he took everything from KB and has forced his own daughter to grow up without her mother and a father in prison.

PF wasn't man enough to just walk away with a reasonable plan to co-parent and move on, he had to hand out an ultimate punishment. :(
MOO
 
@4th Judicial DA Tweet
From the Woodland Park Police Department: S R was contacted by law enforcement, interviewed and cleared in this case. We ask that the R family not be harassed and appreciate her cooperation with investigators.

3:27 PM - 15 Mar 2019

eta: changed to initials
 
In regards to him leaving the cars behind:
This is absolutely just speculation but I had an idea that stems from the SW. MOO. When LE interviews RS he states check into “Eric” a pilot at Southwest Airlines. I’m thinking PF puts this idea into RS’s head (and I’m sure many others) that she has a boyfriend or is seeing someone new. Which also corroborates the story of PF saying she had dinner with a friend in Pueblo. PF then says we got into a fight and this guy picked her up. This eliminates the cumbersome ordeal for him to get rid of a car. In my opinion it’s not so easy to get rid of a big hunk of metal.
I can see where you're going with this, but it would have been a stoooopid plan without knowledge of Eric's location at the time of the murder. His alibi could be, and probably is, rock-solid. But you know, as @GordianKnot likes to say, we're talking about PF here...stupid is as stupid does and all that. Pfft, lol.
MOO

ETA: I want to make it clear that when I said stupid, I meant PF, not you
@Trocroc9! :oops:
 
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RSABBMFF:

Well. I am not the op, but I'm going to take a moment to respond to this post, as
there are some characterizations you have made with which I respectfully disagree:
  • Experiencing severe emotional distress as a result of a traumatic loss does mean an individual is "mentally ill."
  • Experiencing physical symptoms as a result of a traumatic loss does not mean an individual is "sick."
  • Experiencing severe emotional distress and accompanying physical symptoms does not mean that someone is incapacitated to the point of being unable to function or to properly nurture and care for a child.
People every single day are confronted with the shock of unexpected tragedies, accidents, deaths and traumatic events. Even in the midst of profound grief and loss, many people have an amazing capacity to soldier on, and to show incredible grace, strength and perseverance in the face of devastating circumstances. They are able to continue to function as loving, responsible spouses, parents and grandparents.

Their lives go on. Their lives are forever changed, and forever diminished, but they force themselves to go on, for the sake of those remaining.

DB and CB are two such inspiring individuals.
Clearly.
The court has already recognized this by awarding them temporary custody of Baby K.
So there's that.

If I were the Frazee custody attorney, the very last thing that I would want to do would be to highlight the traumatic grief and loss PF violently inflicted upon DB and CB.

"Your Honor, clearly these people have been emotionally damaged by the fact that my client violently bashed their daughter's head to a bloody pulp with a baseball bat. Because my client's gruesome, cold-blooded murder of their daughter has caused them severe emotional distress, they cannot possibly care for their grandchild," doesn't exactly sound like a winning argument to me.


JMO.
Yes, I don't think the issue of mental health would even come up in family court. Even parents who are diagnosed with mental health disorders have rights that protect them from being discriminated against.
A parent may be considered unfit if they are incapable of caring for a child, EVEN with support (such as family, counseling services, or medication) AND the disability is likely to continue in the foreseeable future.
I don't think it will be a problem. Imo
 
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You actually do have a point and a good one. I think CB will be pretty believable and be able to explain this in both cases though.

Yet I agree that a defense may use that and more. To me, anyone who thinks a defense will not mount a helluva case or has automatically assumed what the jury will do or who will be on it and what the prosecution has or the defense may have has tunnel vision or is naive imo. I agree with you on that. LE and other attorneys say the same. Only an insider could know what they have.

And saying so is not a knock on LE or the prosecution. Cases vary. Jurors vary.

jmo.

BBMFF:

If by heckuva case you mean the limpest biscuit ever (half)baked, then I agree:
The defense has one heckuva case to try to make.
I don't think PF and his attorney have a solid leg to stand on, which is going to make it well nigh to impossible for them to mount anything, much less a viable defense.
PF's mounting days are over.

The conclusions that some are comfortable with reaching at this point are not based on assumptions. They are based on known facts. We have learned a lot of the evidence.
We have seen the warrants. We have heard what was presented at the pc hearing.
DA May didn't enter "assumptions" into court. He presented evidence.

It is not "naive" to reach conclusions based on known facts, nor is it "tunnel vision" to recognize and identify key pieces of evidence in a case, and to assemble those pieces into a logical whole.

There are so many posters here who have a really impressive ability to mentally sort, sift, assimilate, and assemble facts. A lot of the posters here on this thread have superb analytical skills and lightning-quick mental processing speed. That doesn't mean they're making assumptions or employing "tunnel vision."

JMO.
 
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BBMFF:

If by heckuva case you mean the limpest biscuit ever (half)baked, then I agree:
The defense has one heckuva case to try to make.
I don't think PF and his defense attorney have a solid leg to stand on, which is going to make it well nigh to impossible for them to mount anything, much less a viable case.
PF's mounting days are over.

The conclusions that some are comfortable with reaching at this point are not based on assumptions. They are based on known facts. We have learned a lot of the evidence.
We have seen the warrants. We have heard what was presented at the pc hearing.
DA May didn't enter "assumptions" into court. He presented evidence.

It is not "naive" to reach conclusions based on known facts, nor is it "tunnel vision" to recognize and identify key pieces of evidence in a case, and to assemble those pieces into a logical whole.

There are so many posters here who have a really impressive ability to mentally sort, sift, assimilate, and assemble facts. A lot of the posters here on this thread have superb analytical skills and lightning-quick mental processing speed. That doesn't mean they're making assumptions or employing "tunnel vision."

JMO.
Exactly. If the evidence all points in one direction, that ain’t “tunnel vision.”

That’s a bullseye.
 
In regards to him leaving the cars behind:
This is absolutely just speculation but I had an idea that stems from the SW. MOO. When LE interviews RS he states check into “Eric” a pilot at Southwest Airlines. I’m thinking PF puts this idea into RS’s head (and I’m sure many others) that she has a boyfriend or is seeing someone new. Which also corroborates the story of PF saying she had dinner with a friend in Pueblo. PF then says we got into a fight and this guy picked her up. This eliminates the cumbersome ordeal for him to get rid of a car. In my opinion it’s not so easy to get rid of a big hunk of metal.
These people are such idiots. They just throw stuff out there. Like it can't be checked out.
The freedom clock is counting down must be hard getting any decent sleep.
 
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