CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #50 *ARREST*

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BBMFF:

If by heckuva case you mean the limpest biscuit ever (half)baked, then I agree.
The defense has one heckuva case to try to make.
I don't think PF and his defense attorney have a solid leg to stand on, which is going to make it well nigh to impossible for them to mount anything, like a case.
PF's mounting days are over.

The conclusions that some are comfortable with reaching at this point are not based on assumptions. They are based on known facts of the case. We have learned a lot of the evidence. We have seen warrants, and heard what was presented at the pc hearing.
DA May didn't enter "assumptions" into court. He presented evidence.

It is not "naive" to reach conclusions based on known facts, nor is it "tunnel vision" to recognize and identify key pieces of evidence in a case, and to assemble those pieces into a logical whole.

There are so many posters here who have a really impressive ability to mentally sort, sift, assimilate, and assemble facts. A lot of the posters here on this thread have superb analytical skills and lightning-quick mental processing speed. That doesn't mean they're making assumptions or employing "tunnel vision."

JMO.

Excuse me, I do not agree it will work or will not upset the jury.

I simply stated that a defense will use things in all areas and will put up a case and simply showed respect for the opinion that a defense will do their job. I doubt it will work. However, I can see them looking at everything. I do not even agree but have no reason not to respect someone else's opinion.

<modsnipped unnecessary comment>

Meant with all due respect and jmo. :)
 
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So a person who is facing tragedy and emotional distress over the fact that her daughter's head was smashed in with a baseball bat is automatically unable to take care of a child? It is highly possible to be mentally and physically capable of raising children while still grieving the loss of a loved one-just ask any of us who have suffered child loss yet had to go on being good parents to our surviving kids. I think you're misunderstanding grief. IMO jurors would be MORE concerned if CB wasn't showing signs of grief and the physical and emotional impacts it brings. CB is reacting in a completely normal and human way. CB is reacting to trauma. It comes with its own specific issues. On the other hand, MANY people live with mental and emotional distress yet are still able to carry out parental duties just fine and to suggest otherwise is a real disservice to those parents who are already stigmatized for having mental health issues.
I don't understand why the civil case would even be addressed in the custody case. Would It?
Is there a lawyer here?!
 
I don't understand why the civil case would even be addressed in the custody case. Would It?
Is there a lawyer here?!

I’m no lawyer, but if:
Daddy is in jail accused of killing Mommy.
Daddy’s “other” girlfriend cleaned up Mommy’s blood.
Grandma took the 5th when asked to testify where said Daddy was that day.

Baby ain’t going nowhere near that family.
 
Excuse me, I do not agree it will work or will not upset the jury.

I simply stated that a defense will use things in all areas and will put up a case and simply showed respect for the opinion that a defense will do their job. I doubt it will work. However, I can see them looking at everything. I do not even agree but have no reason not to respect someone else's opinion.

<modsnipped>

Meant with all due respect and jmo. :)

WS's, incl. myself, only have what is currently available via LE and MSM to formulate our opinions on.

Granted, we have a lot due to this murder, like Watt's case, happening in CO where data is released more readily. But, I believe there is soooooo much we don't know yet, and probably won't until there is a trial.

Nothing, IMO, is a sure thing until it's a sure thing. Unless his defense team are total morons and incompetent (and I kind of hope they are), they are going to pull out everything and inspect it from every angle and come up with every facet of every argument.

I hope we are not all freaked out by what they try.
 
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I’m no lawyer, but if:
Daddy is in jail accused of killing Mommy.
Daddy’s “other” girlfriend cleaned up Mommy’s blood.
Grandma took the 5th when asked to testify where said Daddy was that day.

Baby ain’t going nowhere near that family.

Not to mention that Grandma knew Daddy burned something unexplained with other girlfriend soon after Mommy disappeared.

You're right, STG....nowhere!
 
WS's, incl. myself, only have what is currently available via LE and MSM to formulate our opinions on.

Granted, we have a lot due to this murder, like Watt's case, happening in CO where data is released more readily. But, I believe there is soooooo much we don't know yet, and probably won't until there is a trial.

Nothing, IMO, is a sure thing until it's a sure thing. Unless his defense team are total morons and incompetent (and I kind of hope they are), they are going to pull out everything and inspect it from every angle and come up with every facet of every argument.

I hope we are not all freaked out by what they try.

Exactly. I see your post was modified so I have no idea what I did not see. Everything is just an opinion for the most part from all of us. There has been no trial, just a preliminary.

I respect yours about the personal remarks with KK. Even though I have made fun of her hair and such, I understand entirely your opinion about it. I also hope you believe I would never do that to anyone but a perp. It may make me look like the type that would as such remarks do make people look like that, but I would not, I am completely the opposite. Except for murdering perps (and a few other types of perps). My point, however, is that opinions do vary and I respect yours. :)

Someone said Colorado has great public defenders so I would expect a great defense based on that remark... I would rather he not have one but that is not the way it works.

ETA: Fixed type and added sentence.
 
Exactly. I see your post was modified so I have no idea what I did not see. Everything is just an opinion for the most part from all of us. There has been no trial, just a preliminary.

I respect yours about the personal remarks with KK. Even though I have made fun of her hair and such, I understand entirely your opinion about it. I also hope you believe I would never do that to anyone but a perp. It may make me look like the type that would as such remarks do make people look like that, but I would not, I am completely the opposite. Except for murdering perps (and a few other types of perps). My point, however, is that opinions do vary and I respect yours. :)

Someone said Colorado has great public defenders so I would expect a great defense based on that remark... I would rather he not have one but that is not the way it works.

ETA: Fixed type and added sentence.

I only modify my posts for two reasons; typos/poor wording/clarification and ETA, and I usually remember to put "ETA", but don't hold me to that...not infallible! LOL
 
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I couldn't disagree more. The posters here are respectful of others 99% of the time <hey we can all have a bad day lol> and the rules here at WS prevent wild speculation and unfounded SM rumors and sleuthing of individuals not named persons of interest for which I am thankful for.

There are tons of unmoderated true crime FB and SM pages that allow reckless speculation, rumors and innuendo, but I find that culture counter productive and unfair to the victims of these crimes and their families and often to LE as well.
JMO
 
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I respectfully disagree.

I think many posters here are confident in their beliefs due to the large amount of evidence that has been presented by LE.

They are also highly intelligent, have followed forensics and criminal trials, and have developed a knack for sorting out the wheat from the chaff, and employing common sense.

Their sources/views are usually backed by the forensic evidence presented.

They do take risks and they sleuth what the mods say can be sleuthed. So it is done within the rules of this forum and presented with hard facts and logic.

I would say that they are usually accurate, and they certainly contribute a lot to this forum in terms of time and intelligence, not to mention assisting LE and reporters who read this forum since its one of the best on the web.

I do not include myself in the category of the highly intelligent posters here, but I do read and follow what they have to say and they're usually spot on.

This is just my opinion.

I think its doing them a vast injustice by invalidating what they add and the logical views they present to us.

For those who find it boring I suppose there are other conspiracy forums that may be more interesting but usually just try to get clicks for money.

IMHO.

This.....all of this!!! I give you 1 thousand pieces of cheese and 1 like also
 
I respectfully disagree.

I think many posters here are confident in their beliefs due to the large amount of evidence that has been presented by LE.

They are also highly intelligent, have followed forensics and criminal trials, and have developed a knack for sorting out the wheat from the chaff, and employing common sense.

Their sources/views are usually backed by the forensic evidence presented.

They do take risks and they sleuth what the mods say can be sleuthed. So it is done within the rules of this forum and presented with hard facts and logic.

I would say that they are usually accurate, and they certainly contribute a lot to this forum in terms of time and intelligence, not to mention assisting LE and reporters who read this forum since its one of the best on the web.

I do not include myself in the category of the highly intelligent posters here, but I do read and follow what they have to say and they're usually spot on.

This is just my opinion.

I think its doing them a vast injustice by invalidating what they add and the logical views they present to us.

For those who find it boring I suppose there are other conspiracy forums that may be more interesting but they usually just try to get clicks for money.

IMHO.
I suppose you are right thank you
 
I couldn't disagree more. The posters here are respectful of others 99% of the time <hey we can all have a bad day lol> and the rules here at WS prevent wild speculation and unfounded SM rumors and sleuthing of individuals not named persons of interest for which I am thankful for.

There are tons of unmoderated true crime FB and SM pages that allow reckless speculation, rumors and innuendo, but I find that culture counter productive and unfair to the victims of these crimes and their families and often to LE as well.
JMO
Yes you are correct thank you
 
Yeah, Ive burned tons of dead trees and tree limbs and its much harder than people realize to burn things completely down to nothing. One thing that is hard to explain is you typically have to stir the items in the fire and the problem you run into is if you have a very large hot fire then its hard to get yourself near enough to the fire to stir it because its so hot as you try to get close. So you end up using a long metal spiked rake or something to rush in real quick to stir the stuff and then rush out to get away from the heat.

Another thing that convinces me there was no body being burned in the tote is the way KK conveniently says she didnt look in the tote.
So she is trying to tell us that after driving hundreds of miles back and forth for 3 failed attempts at murdering KB, that she would not at least run over to quickly pick up the lid of the tote to take a quick peek at KB's body. That is total BS to me. So once I get convinced she is lying about that then I start to think of other things she may have lied about.

And she can get away with that lie that she thought the body was in the tote being burned. Its her word against his and he is not going to admit to anything so if PF dumped her body down a mine shaft then KK gets to help him out a little bit while still coming across as cooperating with LE.

Unless LE finds KB's burnt remains in the landfill, I am not convinced they burned the body. I think they or just PF did something else with it.

All JMO of course.

the way KK tells the story, she never touched the tote
 
I respectfully disagree.

I think many posters here are confident in their beliefs due to the large amount of evidence that has been presented by LE.

They are also highly intelligent, have followed forensics and criminal trials, and have developed a knack for sorting out the wheat from the chaff, and employing common sense.

Their sources/views are usually backed by the forensic evidence presented.

They do take risks and they sleuth what the mods say can be sleuthed. So it is done within the rules of this forum and presented with hard facts and logic.

I would say that they are usually accurate, and they certainly contribute a lot to this forum in terms of time and intelligence, not to mention assisting LE and reporters who read this forum since its one of the best on the web.

I do not include myself in the category of the highly intelligent posters here, but I do read and follow what they have to say and they're usually spot on.

This is just my opinion.

I think its doing them a vast injustice by invalidating what they add and the logical views they present to us.

For those who find it boring I suppose there are other conspiracy forums that may be more interesting but they usually just try to get clicks for money.

IMHO.
Well nwmouse, you are definitely a part of this intelligent community too and your thoughtful posts are appreciated and right on point. :)
 
Folks please get back to the details of the case instead of talking about other members and their opinions. Moreover, this is the final warning to stay on topic. Take the information about the Closs case over to the Closs thread.
 
The Ranchette is 7-8 miles south of the town of Florissant, not sure anyone delivers that far. :)

prob not a delivery situation, but most ppl get pizza at the same place (their favorite) and maybe even get the same kind, so it would be interesting to see if there was an order by the Fs on this particular night. maybe no one remembers this late in the game, but frequently after a crime such as this, ppl think back and say"I saw that guy in Walmart" or "I saw that guy at the barber's the day before" or "I sold PF gas" or whatever.
 

KK is supposedly intelligent and posters have pointed out how many steps she took to trade cars, keep her prints, etc. out of the condo, but she never mentions verifying anything PF said about KB or about the baby- no personal observations, no reading Facebook, no checking on anything, no talking to other rodeo folk.

(probably unclear but this post was in response to the Q do we WSs believe that KK really thought baby K was in any danger from KB, as alleged by PF in KK's narrative)
 
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she is supposedly intelligent and posters have pointed out how many steps she took to trade cars, keep her prints, etc. out of the condo, but she never mentions verifying anything PF said about KB or about the baby- no personal observations, no reading Facebook, no checking on anything, no talking to other rodeo folk.
I don't know if we have been privy to all the information she provided in her plea deal. I bet there will be more to come out during the trial.

I believe KK will most certainly be the Defense's Strategy to try and create reasonable doubt. As another poster pointed out upthread, they're not going to be incompetent or moronic, they will be working just as hard to get PF off as DA May and Company will be to putting him away.

After the Casey Anthony case I learned never to say never.....but I do believe PF will be found guilty based on what we know even at this point.
 
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