CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #50 *ARREST*

[sun16]

This is very encouraging.

An 80% recovery rate is absolutely incredible.

I had no idea that many bodies ended up at landfills.

I agree. I read the article and his success rate and thought, wow. If she is there, I think they’ll find her. If she was dumped elsewhere, I have no idea what will happen. Does LE even think there is a possibility she could be elsewhere?

 

[MassGuy]

I agree. I read the article and his success rate and thought, wow. If she is there, I think they’ll find her. If she was dumped elsewhere, I have no idea what will happen. Does LE even think there is a possibility she could be elsewhere?

The fact that they are searching there in the first place, seems to indicate they do believe it’s very probable she is there.

It would be based on more than KK indicating that he mentioned the landfill as being a potential location.

There’s really no way of gauging how confident they are that she is there though.

 

[MyBelle]

Caylee was found dead in 2008. When LE gathered information for the case against Casey, the technology was much different. Not every juror understood how a home computer or even a cellphone worked back then. Today it would be rare to find a person who had never used one of these items personally. I think that LE in the PF case will have enough to put him away.

Enough to put PF away on what charge?

According to the judge in the Anthony case there wasn't enough evidence to prove murder vs. accident from the jury's perspective. He believes it was an accident because there was no evidence Casey was a bad mother or that the child was abused.

In that case the body was found. In the Frazee case, they are still searching for a body.

"The jury did what the jury did and there are various views as to how this evidence could be perceived," he said. Belvin said there was evidence for a first-degree murder conviction, but it depended on perspective.

Looked at through different lenses, he said, the evidence also supported a conviction for second-degree murder or for manslaughter.

Or jurors could have said they didn't know what happened.

"Thus, there's a reasonable doubt. We don't know. We don't know translates to not guilty," he said.


Looked at thttps://www.cnn.com/2017/03/02/us/casey-anthony-judge-hln/index.html

 

[MassGuy]

Enough to put PF away on what charge?

According to the judge in the Anthony case there wasn't enough evidence to prove murder vs. accident from the jury's perspective. He believes it was an accident because there was no evidence Casey was a bad mother or that the child was abused.

In that case the body was found. In the Frazee case, they are still searching for a body.

"The jury did what the jury did and there are various views as to how this evidence could be perceived," he said. Belvin said there was evidence for a first-degree murder conviction, but it depended on perspective.

Looked at through different lenses, he said, the evidence also supported a conviction for second-degree murder or for manslaughter.

Or jurors could have said they didn't know what happened.

"Thus, there's a reasonable doubt. We don't know. We don't know translates to not guilty," he said.


Looked at thttps://www.cnn.com/2017/03/02/us/casey-anthony-judge-hln/index.html

Absolutely, murder 1.

This case in no way resembles the CA case.

Here we have premeditation in regards to the solicitation attempts, and a protracted and diabolical effort to cover up this crime.

KK’s words are evidence of murder, but just as importantly, the blood evidence indicates that as well.

The most telling part though, is his countless lies, fake texts, fake phone calls, and the fact that he spent the better part of two days with Kelsey’s phone.

Not to mention the dog hits, and physical evidence discovered at both the barn, and his ranchette.

Murder, premeditation, motive, means, and opportunity.

All there.

 

[Irmese]

Enough to put PF away on what charge?

According to the judge in the Anthony case there wasn't enough evidence to prove murder vs. accident from the jury's perspective. He believes it was an accident because there was no evidence Casey was a bad mother or that the child was abused.

In that case the body was found. In the Frazee case, they are still searching for a body.

"The jury did what the jury did and there are various views as to how this evidence could be perceived," he said. Belvin said there was evidence for a first-degree murder conviction, but it depended on perspective.

Looked at through different lenses, he said, the evidence also supported a conviction for second-degree murder or for manslaughter.

Or jurors could have said they didn't know what happened.

"Thus, there's a reasonable doubt. We don't know. We don't know translates to not guilty," he said.


Looked at thttps://www.cnn.com/2017/03/02/us/casey-anthony-judge-hln/index.html

Your quote boils down to perspective. Frankly, I felt like the jury did not care at all about the case and just wanted to get the trial over with. And maybe PF will get the same kind of jury. We will see.

 

[susiQ]

Absolutely, murder 1.

This case in no way resembles the CA case.

Here we have premeditation in regards to the solicitation attempts, and a protracted and diabolical effort to cover up this crime.

KK’s words are evidence of murder, but just as importantly, the blood evidence indicates that as well.

The most telling part though, is his countless lies, fake texts, fake phone calls, and the fact that he spent the better part of two days with Kelsey’s phone.

Not to mention the dog hits, and physical evidence discovered at both the barn, and his ranchette.

Murder, premeditation, motive, means, and opportunity.

All there.

Reading the posts of the last day, do you ever get the feeling you're beating your head against a wall, MG?? You are one patient man, I must say

 

[steeltowngirl]

BBM. It's really quite simple. The DA wanted to ask SF about an alleged fire on her property. Open burning of waste (such as plastic) has been illegal in Colorado for years. SF is the owner of the property which is why her attorney told the judge she would invoke the 5th.

JMO

From the preliminary hearing, I bolded the items they were questioning

1:32 p.m.

The state wants to ask Sheila about the phone call on Nov. 22 from Patrick, witnessing the burn, and more. Judge reviewed the case law citations. He says this is not the time & place for Sheila’s testimony.

1:30 p.m.

Court is back in session. Judge says they talked about admitting Sheila Frazee as a witness. She is exercising her right to remain silent at the advisement of counsel.

9:10 a.m.

The defense called Sheila Frazee, Patrick Frazee’s mother, to the stand to testify. She refused and exercised her fifth amendment rights. District Attorney Dan May said Sheila Frazee would know about a defendant showing up to her house on the day Berreth was last seen, however, Judge Scott Sells ruled in favor of Frazee’s refusal to testify.

Live blog: Patrick Frazee appears in court for preliminary hearing

 

[MassGuy]

From the preliminary hearing, I bolded the items they were questioning

1:32 p.m.

The state wants to ask Sheila about the phone call on Nov. 22 from Patrick, witnessing the burn, and more. Judge reviewed the case law citations. He says this is not the time & place for Sheila’s testimony.

1:30 p.m.

Court is back in session. Judge says they talked about admitting Sheila Frazee as a witness. She is exercising her right to remain silent at the advisement of counsel.

9:10 a.m.

The defense called Sheila Frazee, Patrick Frazee’s mother, to the stand to testify. She refused and exercised her fifth amendment rights. District Attorney Dan May said Sheila Frazee would know about a defendant showing up to her house on the day Berreth was last seen, however, Judge Scott Sells ruled in favor of Frazee’s refusal to testify.

Live blog: Patrick Frazee appears in court for preliminary hearing

Yup. PF called two people after the murder, KK and his mommy.

Mommy would be able to tell them what they discussed.

PF attended Thanksgiving dinner at the Frazee ranchette.

Mommy would know what time he showed up, and what his demeanor was.

PF allegedly burned Kelsey’s body in his backyard.

Mommy would be able to testify as to what she saw.

She has tremendous evidentiary value.

 

[ab01]

While I don’t have any adult children that still live with me on our rather large farm property. I do tend to always know who is coming or going. In addition, I can’t ever remember there being any type of burning of things without me seeing or smelling it.

Moo

Eta: although that PF is pretty clever and sneaky....*huge eye roll*

 

[LittleDoe]

Enough to put PF away on what charge?

I know that you are trying to be devils advocate here, however we have all read what we are allowed to read from the SW's. IMO they have left some pages out for their case & protection (of whom, I don't know. Just go with it.) and by what most of us have heard and read, PF will not instantly walk out a free man after this trial.

 

[MassGuy]

While I don’t have any adult children that still live with me on our rather large farm property. I do tend to always know who is coming or going. In addition, I can’t ever remember there being any type of burning of things without me seeing or smelling it.

Moo

Ha! Yes, I believe that most people are aware as to if a guest is present, and the general movements of those who live with them.

The PF residence ain’t the Bill Gates mansion.

 

[GordianKnot]

Yup. PF called two people after the murder, KK and his mommy.

Mommy would be able to tell them what they discussed.

PF attended Thanksgiving dinner at the Frazee ranchette.

Mommy would know what time he showed up, and what his demeanor was.

PF allegedly burned Kelsey’s body in his backyard.

Mommy would be able to testify as to what she saw.

She has tremendous evidentiary value.

Yeah, well, Mumsy apparently didn't teach PF not to play with matches.

Then again, that's probably why she came out to supervise him during the bonfire.

That, and he was outside past his curfew.

JMO.

 

[OldLadyBlues]

Landfill expert weighs in on search for Woodland Park woman Kelsey Berreth

[...]

Retired after 34 years in law enforcement in Texas, Reed assesses landfills for NecroSearch International. The organization is currently looking for the body of Kelsey Berreth, who is believed to have been murdered in her Woodland Park townhome by her fiancé, Patrick Frazee.

Reed developed the technique for searching landfills. “We have a methodical and calculated way to help identify where law enforcement is looking in the cell of the landfill,” he said.

[...]

Landfill searches are complicated. “Most people don’t realize that when you talk about a cell that is 20 feet deep, 100 feet wide and 100 feet long — when you start unpacking that you’re taking down about an 80-story building, straight up,” he said.

Reed does the initial assessment of landfill searches. “We come in and say where we project it is in the cell, and say ‘Here’s how much trash you’re going to have to remove to get to it,’” he said. “’And here’s how long it’s going to take, and here’s your cost factor, and here’s the equipment you’re going to need.’”

[...]

Reed has a track record. “This one is my 51st search and I’ve been successful on 40,” he said. “I’ve done thousands of assessments and if the probability of finding anything is zero, I say it’s not worth the expense.”

The variables for success include lack of log sheets or if a transfer station is not up-to-date.

[...]

Founded in 1988, NecroSearch International is a 501 (3)(9) nonprofit organization. “We’re a combination of scientists and law enforcement,” he said. “The ground tells us where the grave could be — not necessarily how the body decomposed ... .”

While Reed’s expertise is landfills, the 55-member organization includes botanists, archaeologists, anthropologists, geologists, geophysicists, hydrologists, entomologists, in addition to law enforcement. “We have search experience and a drone expert who is also a photographer for National Geographic,” he said.

[...]

Thank you Pommy! BUT.....are we now searching for a BODY?
MOO, MOO

 

[MassGuy]

Thank you Pommy! BUT.....are we now searching for a BODY?
MOO, MOO

Nothing has changed as far as we know.

Body and remains, are being used interchangeably.

The man being interviewed, was discussing his experience searching for bodies at landfills.

No distinction was made as to the condition they were in.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I agree with much of what you said. Unfortunately LE can’t simply force someone to talk during an investigation.

I will say that I think there are many things found at the burn site that are still being tested for traces of human dna. I can only speculate that the accelerant and black balls of plastic were easier and quicker to identify. Moo

I’m sure they are still receiving testing results back on various pieces of evidence. Moo

The more I think about the consumptive testing, I don't think it's DNA. I think it is merely chemical composition of the little plastic balls to prove it is the same plastic that is similar to the composition of the two totes that were found at his house that are similar in description to the ones that KK described, and were found in the same area that KK pointed out to them in the video that we have seen.

That would make sense why it would be totally consumptive in the testing. M o o

 

[steeltowngirl]

I agree. I read the article and his success rate and thought, wow. If she is there, I think they’ll find her. If she was dumped elsewhere, I have no idea what will happen. Does LE even think there is a possibility she could be elsewhere?

Such a great question. They are focused on the landfill. The HLN show mentioned that PF told KK he was taking what was left of the burned tote to a landfill or a river near him. I hadn’t heard anything about a river anywhere else but the HLN show. Caught my attention along with that Lake George text (which we’ve since discussed was just a red herring).

 

[MyBelle]

I know that you are trying to be devils advocate here, however we have all read what we are allowed to read from the SW's. IMO they have left some pages out for their case & protection (of whom, I don't know. Just go with it.) and by what most of us have heard and read, PF will not instantly walk out a free man after this trial.

I never have suggested PF will walk out a free man. But without a body or murder weapon, I think a conviction on first degree murder will be very difficult.

JMO

 

[ab01]

Enough to put PF away on what charge?

According to the judge in the Anthony case there wasn't enough evidence to prove murder vs. accident from the jury's perspective. He believes it was an accident because there was no evidence Casey was a bad mother or that the child was abused.

In that case the body was found. In the Frazee case, they are still searching for a body.

"The jury did what the jury did and there are various views as to how this evidence could be perceived," he said. Belvin said there was evidence for a first-degree murder conviction, but it depended on perspective.

Looked at through different lenses, he said, the evidence also supported a conviction for second-degree murder or for manslaughter.

Or jurors could have said they didn't know what happened.

"Thus, there's a reasonable doubt. We don't know. We don't know translates to not guilty," he said.


Looked at thttps://www.cnn.com/2017/03/02/us/casey-anthony-judge-hln/index.html

What does this even have to do with the Anthony case?

the murder of a child vs the murder of a young mother.

One was murdered by the victims own mother!

Two totally different cases.

So the connection is that in your opinion the two cases are connected bc the jury will have doubt.........

Well, agree to disagree

 

[steeltowngirl]

The PF residence ain’t the Bill Gates mansion.

More like the Bates Motel.

 

[nwmouse]

BBM. It's really quite simple. The DA wanted to ask SF about an alleged fire on her property. Open burning of waste (such as plastic) has been illegal in Colorado for years. SF is the owner of the property which is why her attorney told the judge she would invoke the 5th.

JMO

Are you merely speculating? Or do you have a link to where May States what he intended to ask?

I'm hoping for a reply with the link as well.

Since we haven't received a response from the poster, and I cannot find a link I'm assuming its speculation?

Unless of course the link is provided to specifically state what DA May intended to ask SF.

IMHO and moo.