New Zealand - Christchurch Mosque shooting, dead & injured reported, 15 March 2019

[human]

1. it is the first time i posted this video

2. It is relevant because the killer name checked owens

3. other posters keep strawmanning this. No one is saying she "inspired the massacre". Rather wingnuts will co-opt careless hitler talk.

Thanks for the info. Her own words

 

[RubyHill]

Thought NZ was it’s own country.

If I move from one state to another I have to change addy/drivers license, can’t just move anonymously.

Living in NZ for 2 years seems he would be a NZ residence.

Our Countries have what is called the Trans Tasman agreement,it is not odd for Australians and New Zealanders to spend time in each Country.

 

[RubyHill]

I put the link where it says you have to pay back the legal aid.

That depends on how much money or property you have.

 

[otto]

You and the shooter seem to be the only one taking her comments out of context.

The only issue with the Owens woman is that when she learned that her name was mentioned in a ridiculous statement from a mass murderer, she replied with LOL. She should have focused on the victims rather than herself.

 

[otto]

Perhaps that’s an oversimplified take. That said ... Yes, the NZ shooter’s far right extremist ideology was also anti-ethnic and anti-Islamic.

In the context of the NZ shooting, the victims are also immigrants and refugees.

They are from Jordan, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Syria, Palestine, United Arab Emirates, Jakarta, Telangana, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Somalia, Jordan, etc.

It’s well documented that the shooter is a white nationalist, and that his beliefs are also anti-Islam, anti-immigrant, and anti-multiculturalist.

I don't think his ramblings - his documentation - deserve any attention. He murdered praying people in a religious building. The victims are primarily Caucasian. He's obviously a very stupid man if he thinks that murdering Caucasians furthers his incoherent 74 page ramblings.

 

[otto]

I suspect prosecution will run a stripped down trial - I think we have already seen signs of that with only one representative murder charge to date

IMO they are going to hit him with 50 murders and likely ask for consecutive sentences, but have the bare minimum of evidence

After all, they have him on video doing a lot of murders so a skeleton crew of witnesses will be sufficient.

We heard that he murdered someone prior to killing the praying people, and he did murder a woman who was lying on the street asking for help. Those two murders can very likely be separated from the massacre. He also shot someone through his car window as he was driving away. That's perhaps a 3rd non-massacre murder.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Mass murderers, shooters, etc often sit on the psychopathy, socipathy or narcissism spectrum. It's in the same as those with Borderline Personality Disorder also tend to have 'mother issues'. It's been speculated that 80% of men in prison in the US for hard crimes, have Borderline Personality Disorder (sorry, can't validate the statistic, just remember it).

Personally I would think the rate would be even higher. Humans are social animals, we're hard-wired to act within social boundaries.

 

[Cryptic]

“One core of fascism that hasn’t changed is this creation of a sense of emergency around whiteness,” Ben-Ghiat says. “If we don’t understand that racism was embedded in fascism from the start, we are getting an incomplete picture.”

Though he means well, Ben-Ghiat appears to be confusing fascism for nazism.

Fascism is centered around the idea that a single national culture / national identity needs to be promoted in a society. Though the one national culture can very closely linked to a "race", that race does not need to be "white".

For example, neither of the two main original fascists (Mussollini(sp) and Franco) were dogmatically racist. This does not mean they were hugely tolerant, just that they were not racists. Likewise fascist like regimes have periodically popped up in Lebanon (Phalangist), Syria (Assad), Egypt (Nasser), Kenya (Jomoh Kenyatta(sp) ), and Zimbabwe (Mugabe).

All of the above regimes, in addition to some fascist friendly Greek rulers, featured alot of National Identity hype, ideas of only one national culture, the concept of a strong leader, and the suppression of other forms of cultural identity. For some, the promoted culture was European. For others, it was Middle Eastern, and for still others the promoted culture / identity was African.

 

[human]

Though he means well, Ben-Ghiat appears to be confusing fascism for nazism.

Fascism is centered around the idea that a single national culture / national identity needs to be promoted in a society. Though the one national culture can very closely linked to a "race", that race does not need to be "white".

For example, neither of the two main original fascists (Mussollini(sp) and Franco) were dogmatically racist. This does not mean they were hugely tolerant, just that they were not racists. Likewise fascist like regimes have periodically popped up in Lebanon (Phalangist), Syria (Assad), Egypt (Nasser), Kenya (Jomoh Kenyatta(sp) ), and Zimbabwe (Mugabe).

All of the above regimes, in addition to Spain, Italy and some fascist friendly Greek rulers, featured alot of National Identity hype, one national culture ideas, and the suppression of other forms of cultural identity. For some, the promoted culture was European. For others, it was Middle Eastern, and for still others the promoted culture / identity was African.

Most of those are Aryan.

And the African ones are not fascist

 

[glamourkitty1922]

The fallout for kiwis looks to be twin track. I think despite Jacinda's rhetoric that this won't change us, in reality there will be far reaching consequences.

Gordon Campbell on what effective changes to our gun law and to the SIS, would look like – werewolf

Gordon Campbell on what effective changes to our gun law and to the SIS, would look like

Already, the government has signalled that its response to the Christchurch mosque shootings will proceed on two main fronts (a) changes to the gun laws (b) changes to the current surveillance behaviours of the Police and the SIS. So… what would a programme of action look like in those two areas, given that the aim must be to protect the innocent via new measures that do the least possible harm to the existing rights of the law-abiding? All of us surely, have a stake in searching for a consensus on how to proceed.​

That just sounds so repressive.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

The video has been classed as ‘objectionable’ material so I guess it’s the same now as sharing something like child *advertiser censored*. Seems fair to me, share a gruesome video of innocent people being slaughtered.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

It's just that it's such a violation of free speech, however, New Zealand doesn't have such rights and freedoms. Everything can be restricted by the gov't, even the press.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

That depends on how much money or property you have.

The original post was someone wanting to know why he would be allowed to defend himself. I can see someone defending themselves so that the wife and kids don't have to struggle to pay back the costs.

 

[Woodland]

What I find so tragic is I was walking round central Christchurch before the shooting and really marvelling at how it had changed and become so multi-kulti with so few problems. I only go back every few years so the changes jump out.

As a boy in the mid 80s, my high school year of 250 had exactly 3 kids who weren't white. My goodness how that has changed. But not just immigration, NZ really oriented itself as a global trader, with big focus on Asia. Christchurch has evolved out of sight from the boring place it was in the 80s. Before the quakes it was a major tourist destination - only just rebuilding now

Yes there have been troubles, but actually the main one has been the foreign ownership of housing - especially in auckland.

Going back I was struck once more by just how friendly and laid back everyone is compared to say London

That is part of what makes this so horrific - because it was done to us - and not by one of us.

So like many kiwis I struggled as to how the hell to explain all this to my young kids as I kept them away from TV and the newspapers so as not to terrify them.

There are no words, but just a sense of pride in how everyday kiwis have reacted.

I have decided to make this my last post about the Christchurch attacks

Kia kaha

New Zealanders have represented their country very well here imo - others are representing their country as well. Looking forward to your posts at time of trial.

 

[Cryptic]

Most of those are Aryan.

And the African ones are not fascist

"Aryans" dont exist.

As for the African leaders not being fascist, here is some information about Jomo Kenyata:
Jomo Kenyatta - Wikipedia

You will see that he referred to himself as "The Father of the Country" (strong leader hype). Expelled whites and Indians from Kenya (one national culture / identity), and had a romanticized view of Kenya's pre colonial past (historical greatness hype), and was also "dictatorial" and "authoritarian".

Sure, he dabbled in Communism and even studied in the USSR. But.... politics is really circular- not linear left / center/ right. The line between "socialist" and "fascist" can get very blurry. In short, Kenyatta was a fascist. The fact that he was African does not change that. Ditto for Mugabe.

Again, fascism promotes culture and national identity, not race per se. Jomoh Kenyatta expelled whites and Indians from Kenya not because of their race per se, but because of their "foreign" cultural and national identity. Sure, the two things were closely linked, but Kenyatta was not a dogmatic racist.

 

[opalonyx]

It's just that it's such a violation of free speech, however, New Zealand doesn't have such rights and freedoms. Everything can be restricted by the gov't, even the press.

In the US, either.

The distribution of a video depicting murders does not fall under free speech in any capacity. There are exceptions to what the press can publish and distribute legally in the US.

"Exceptions have been made for speech that violates the legal rights of others, or because of compelling governmental interests. Examples of these categories include incitement, true threats, and fighting words."

United States free speech exceptions - Wikipedia

Many murder cases involved in discussion on this site have instances of judges sealing certain documents, testimony, evidence or crime scene photos from public consumption. People can also be arrested for leaking files that are part of a police investigation. The public is not legally entitled to access to every form of media, especially if it's of a sensitive nature. An example might be the crime scene photos of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting.

 

[human]

"Aryans" dont exist.

As for the African leaders not being fascist, here is some information about Jomo Kenyata:
Jomo Kenyatta - Wikipedia

You will see that he referred to himself as "The Father of the Country" (strong leader hype). Expelled whites and Indians from Kenya (one national culture / identity), and had a romanticized view of Kenya's pre colonial past (historical greatness hype), and was also "dictatorial" and "authoritarian".

Sure, he dabbled in Communism and even studied in the USSR. But.... politics is really circular- not linear left / center/ right. The line between "socialist" and "fascist" can get very blurry. In short, Kenyatta was a fascist. The fact that he was African does not change that. Ditto for Mugabe.

Again, fascism promotes culture and national identity, not race per se. Jomoh Kenyatta expelled whites and Indians from Kenya not because of their race per se, but because of their "foreign" cultural and national identity. Sure, the two things were closely linked, but Kenyatta was not a dogmatic racist.

I don’t know. I found lots of imfo on Aryan .

 

[JudgeJudi]

At this time the accused has no access to television, radio or newspapers while being held in segregation and has no approved visitors.

He has been moved to the country's only specialist maximum security prison in Auckland and will spend 19 to 20 hours a day in a cell.

It is not known whether he will be flown back to Christchurch for this next court appearance next month or appear via audio visual link.

A former prison inmate and current Canterbury University criminologist said the accused would have a large target on his back in prison. He said the majority of the prison population was non-white and the accused would not be able to find any white supremacists to band together with. It was possible he could spend the rest of his life in segregation, and at least the next five to 10 years in "effective" solitary confinement.

Accused gunman in Christchurch terror attacks denied newspaper, television and radio access

 

[CSIDreamer]

The original post was someone wanting to know why he would be allowed to defend himself. I can see someone defending themselves so that the wife and kids don't have to struggle to pay back the costs.

I'm assuming the NZ criminal trial structure is the same as the US? He can do a lot of grandstanding drama during his opening and closing statements as well.

 

[cobalt sky]

A former prison inmate and current Canterbury University criminologist said the accused would have a large target on his back in prison. He said the majority of the prison population was non-white and the accused would not be able to find any white supremacists to band together with.

RSBM, BBM.

NZ Population Ethnicity from Wiki:
In the 2013 census, 74.0% of New Zealand residents identified ethnically as European, and 14.9% as Māori. Other major ethnic groups include Asian(11.8%) and Pacific peoples (7.4%), two-thirds of whom live in the Auckland Region.[3][n 3] The population has become more diverse in recent decades: in 1961, the census reported that the population of New Zealand was 92% European and 7% Māori, with Asian and Pacific minorities sharing the remaining 1%.[253]

Source for above:
New Zealand - Wikipedia

NZ Prison Facts - Ethnicity of Prisoners - 2018: (from pie chart)
Maori (NZ Indigenous): 50%
European: 31.3%
Pacific: 11.6%
Other (including Asian): 4.4%
Unknown: 2.7%

Source for above:
Corrections Department NZ - Prison facts and statistics - March 2018

So it looks like he actually would have a good amount of whites to pal around with in prison, though it might depend on how he is classified as to how and who he would be exposed to when it comes to other inmates. I'm not sure what prison culture is like in NZ, if there are ethnic gangs etc that stick together no matter what. My guess is they desperately want to keep him away from the other prisoners especially whites for fear that he will try to radicalize them. IMO.

 

[cobalt sky]

The fallout for kiwis looks to be twin track. I think despite Jacinda's rhetoric that this won't change us, in reality there will be far reaching consequences.

Gordon Campbell on what effective changes to our gun law and to the SIS, would look like – werewolf

Gordon Campbell on what effective changes to our gun law and to the SIS, would look like

Already, the government has signalled that its response to the Christchurch mosque shootings will proceed on two main fronts (a) changes to the gun laws (b) changes to the current surveillance behaviours of the Police and the SIS. So… what would a programme of action look like in those two areas, given that the aim must be to protect the innocent via new measures that do the least possible harm to the existing rights of the law-abiding? All of us surely, have a stake in searching for a consensus on how to proceed.​

Bold and red by me.

But these consequences are being ushered in by her, not the shooter. I 100% respect NZ leaders, and how they run their country is their business. But I really think that there has been somewhat of a knee-jerk reaction, decisions being announced during times of high emotion when all of the facts weren't yet in and the investigation wasn't yet complete. There even were politicians having to walk back on statements made way too early without first taking the time to sort out the situation. There was no need to make gun control such a center topic in the immediate aftermath of the tragedy. The reaction was similar to the Parkland shooting aftermath in Florida here in the US (I know the US is not NZ but please let this one slide as I'm just trying to use for comparison). It's hard for me not to wonder if this tragedy is being used to further political agendas, especially since I have seen it before in my own country. All IMO.

BTW I'm seeing reports on other social media that New Zealanders are already being blocked from several websites.