Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #17 *Arrest*

[Trooper]

I have always been a bit...well.. more than a bit suspicious about the changing of the accounting in regard to Bella Bleu , wherein the money went to Borce, in the form of a New Company, one director, one shareholder . The debts stayed with Bella Bleu , if I have that right. At the time, it struck me as something outstandingly idiotic in a business sense, considering Borce was an undischarged bankrupt, and still is, I think.

That whole event made me sit up and dribble , froth a bit at the mouth, as , for the life of me, I cannot see Karen consenting to this. On a purely business level, much less a personal one, and it would be a direct smack in the face to her suppliers as well, and there is no evidence at all that Karen was folding the business up..

What I am trying to say, in a roundabout way, is I don't think Karen knew that Borce did this.. It could have been done without her say so, and it is perfectly possible that she found out that night. Some idiotic misstep of Borce , no doubt, as Borce throughout his life seems to have the reverse-Midas touch, everything he does turns to excreta , so no reason to expect this little game to succeed, where nothing else has in his useless life.

And when she found out, which quite probably, she wasn't supposed to, at that time , ( and I cannot work out why this angle wasn't a real pointer to PRE-Murder evidence of intent by Borce ) it seems she would have gone Borce, and he would have to fend her off, quickly and permanently, right there and then.

 

[Trooper]

and , I wonder, when did Sarah find out she was a shareholder in this new company.. before Karen's death? AT Karen's death. ?...

 

[sleepinoz]

and , I wonder, when did Sarah find out she was a shareholder in this new company.. before Karen's death? AT Karen's death. ?...

Probably like most of us - after

 

[Trooper]

Probably like most of us - after

I would like to think so.. the cynic in me has her knowing within a very delicate framework, as she was certainly spending big bucks while Mum was missing and when Mum was found. Borce strikes me as the kind of bloke who could persuade Sarah that he was saving the farm , so to speak, all she had to do was keep quiet and let Borce be what Sarah felt he was expert in , calming Karen down, establishing a holding pattern until Karen could be brought down and around , pouring oil on troubled waters, and in general, running the show.

If, and it's a big IF, if everybody kept their head, even in the face of Antony's public outing of the horror the family was accused of , and IF Sarah kept her head, and just kept her eye on Borce, and IF Aunt Patty could be placated, and IF bloody Vlasko shut his mouth, well.. .. maybe....

 

[sosocurious]

and , I wonder, when did Sarah find out she was a shareholder in this new company.. before Karen's death? AT Karen's death. ?...

Did we ever hear what was in the letter?
There was a letter Karen was worried about, Borce said, but Sarah didn't know what was in it.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...-after-karen-disappeared-20180720-p4zsox.html

 

[JLZ]

I can’t see why the judge find he murdered Karen and overturn the manslaughter plea?

Of course a murderer would say I’m innocent, surely the judge can judge.


Damn that would be a goooood day.

The judge can't lay charges.

 

[Via Marple]

Did we ever hear what was in the letter?
There was a letter Karen was worried about, Borce said, but Sarah didn't know what was in it.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...-after-karen-disappeared-20180720-p4zsox.html

No I don't remember if the police had located which letter at all.

I don't remember if they thought there was any suspicious activity or searches on the laptop either.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Probably like most of us - after

On her 21st birthday, secretly, please not telling mum, because mum will get upset, she doesn't have to know at this time, great "privilege" of adult Sarah and all ....

 

[Via Marple]

I just suddenly wonder if the presence of Karen's phone detected around the route to her disposal site, is really a sign of BR's lack of planning (as argued by his lawyer), or it was a misunderstanding with his helper (as speculated...)

The helper could have taken Karen's phone to plant whatsapp and other 'evidence' in the morning, and then put it back in Karen's pocket, without BR being aware of that, when he then moved her body.

In other words, sloppy teamwork, not panicked reaction.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

And when she found out, which quite probably, she wasn't supposed to, at that time , ( and I cannot work out why this angle wasn't a real pointer to PRE-Murder evidence of intent by Borce ) it seems she would have gone Borce, and he would have to fend her off, quickly and permanently, right there and then.

^^ This!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Only Sarah's word that Mum was in the downstairs study in her pj's when she left for work.

bbm
SR left for Work/Uni at 8:30h.
Karen died between 8:00h and 10:43h.
How could Karen have died before Sarah left the home?

(Links we had already.)

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Yes, that's the way I understood the contemptuous glare. I also thought the policeman arranged for the question to be asked, hence his little smile afterwards.

I didn't understand at the time, why auntie protected him so well and said, it was no time to ask such questions but care for Karen and her disappearing (or similar wording).

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Maybe he opened the new company with intent to make warrant brands bankrupt

He had done so before with other companies and was used to it, IMO. He planned greater things, that's why he had a big interest for his debts not being made public (his ONLY concern, when his wife disappeared). MOO

 

[Edgarb]

My theory is he strangled Karen the previous evening or pushed her down the stairs (possible without leaving obvious injury acc to medical expert in court), SR was present, BR's phone records show he was awake during the night. One of them used her email / whatsapp in the morning (BR would all be familiar with the correspondence) as an alibi she was still alive and to cover SR's knowledge, SR went to work, BR placed Karen's body in the Mercedes, drove to Macedon and when he returned he bleached the ensuite.

Reasons why I believe SR had knowledge -
1. Her body language at the initial press conference - she didn't present as a worried daughter who's beloved mother was missing for several days. She appeared TERRIFIED, didn't make a heartfelt plea to the public as would be expected, crying but no tears, and once BR asked if he killed his wife, her body language became overly self protecting (stooped). She also justified why she was asking her Mum to come home stating because she is an only child. Irrelevant and suspicious given a genuine plea would focus on emotional aspects.
2. SR was the ONLY hostile witness during the Committal Hearing, she lacked emotion even though it was reported she was emotional (she was for approx 10 seconds of approx 40 mins in the witness box). She did not distinctly offer a kind word about her mother (which I expected) nor try to defend her when discussing her parent's relationship. Instead she left that for the following witness who worked with Karen who talked about Karen very fondly.
3. During the Committal Hearing SR changed her previous sworn statement regarding whether there were any of her mother's shoes missing. She stated initially no shoes were missing, but had since realised there was a pair missing.

All IMHO.

The information provided by BR to Vic Police upon the first visit to report Karen missing is extremely important IMHO. He told them Karen would often clean when she was upset, explaining the clean and possibly bleached ensuite and the rings left behind.

IMPORTANT -
- CLEAN ENSUITE
- KAREN'S RINGS

WHY was this important to EXPLAIN to Police at this time? More important information was vital to finding Karen, but this irrelevant and now likely false explanation was offered?

Given now it is highly likely Karen had been murdered in her own home, this was all fabricated to support his version that she had walked out upset and left her rings behind. But she didn't.

BR felt he needed to have an explanation for the clean ensuite, which would not be out of the ordinary for people who like clean homes. WHY? Was Karen left in the bathroom overnight? Was he expecting forensic testing in the home?

The Police's first priority would be to locate a reported missing person alive and well, not focussing on that she had cleaned and left her rings in the ensuite.

SR corroborated in the Committal Hearing that her mother would often clean when she was upset and take off her rings prior.

All IMHO.

 

[Edgarb]

Did we ever hear what was in the letter?
There was a letter Karen was worried about, Borce said, but Sarah didn't know what was in it.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...-after-karen-disappeared-20180720-p4zsox.html

BR said there was a letter that Karen was worried about and that SR didn't know what was in it.

I wouldn't expect any 21 yr old daughter to know what was in a letter addressed to a parent? At 21, they couldn't care less and most parents wouldn't expect her to know. Did anyone here open their parents mail at 21? I didn't. At that age, if it looked like drink cards for a nightclub, maybe, but that never did happen

Why then did BR say that his daughter SR didn't know about "this letter"?

All IMHO.

 

[they'll get you]

The judge can't lay charges.

Dammit

 

[Armchair snoop]

Therefore, why can't the Vic Pol extract from Borce the cost of the search and investigation?

At it's peak , there were 50 or more officers, and a battalion of detectives, inspectors, et al, all assigned and doing overtime on the search for Karen's body and the search for her killer.

The cost of mounting the murder charge must have been no small change either, the hire of similar cars, expert's opinions, forensics, accountants, scientists, Prosecutor's Advisors, psychiatrists, all at top rates, who can forget Constable Hubba of the stand-in Mercedes in his oh so casual jumper?

The taxpayers of Victoria kick in for this stuff, and this is a very flimsy and unsatisfactory return on their money.

I don't think that will be possible Troops, good ole Borces' business skills has left the estate broke. Maybe he can pay it back in the clink. How much do they get paid per day for working in the laundry or punching out number plates?

 

[Via Marple]

The information provided by BR to Vic Police upon the first visit to report Karen missing is extremely important IMHO. He told them Karen would often clean when she was upset, explaining the clean and possibly bleached ensuite and the rings left behind.

IMPORTANT -
- CLEAN ENSUITE
- KAREN'S RINGS

WHY was this important to EXPLAIN to Police at this time? More important information was vital to finding Karen, but this irrelevant and now likely false explanation was offered?

Given now it is highly likely Karen had been murdered in her own home, this was all fabricated to support his version that she had walked out upset and left her rings behind. But she didn't.

BR felt he needed to have an explanation for the clean ensuite, which would not be out of the ordinary for people who like clean homes. WHY? Was Karen left in the bathroom overnight? Was he expecting forensic testing in the home?

The Police's first priority would be to locate a reported missing person alive and well, not focussing on that she had cleaned and left her rings in the ensuite.

SR corroborated in the Committal Hearing that her mother would often clean when she was upset and take off her rings prior.

All IMHO.

Very good point, thanks for reminding!

The only forensics that I can think of, is blood. Since this is Karen's ensuite, it wouldn't be out of ordinary to find her DNA around, like hair, (and other organic matter.)

Blood that looked like she had been harmed, not the feminine type.

She could have been placed there for a while after the fact, or it might actually have happened there. Otherwise the stairs or garage etc would have been squeaky clean too.

Unless Borce was like Macbeth, washing himself incessantly after he killed?

MOO
(Sorry for any Shakespearean inaccuracies)

 

[Via Marple]

‘Police believe a diamond ring may help solve the disappearance and suspected murder of New South Wales mother Roxlyn Bowie 37 years ago.’

‘Detectives did forensic tests on a home in the northern NSW town yesterday and have now lodged an appeal to try to find the ring, which is believed to be Ms Bowie's.

A Current Affair has been told the search included the use of 3D-imaging cameras to map every room of the house.

Forensic police will also move through the premises, using a chemical known as luminol in an attempt to detect any trace of blood.

ACA crime editor Simon Bouda, who has been investigating Ms Bowie’s disappearance, said he had been told luminol could detect human blood even from decades ago.

The diamond ring hasn't been seen since it was bought at a Bankstown pawn shop on June 6, 1984. Police have released a picture of a similar ring in a bid to get public help to track it down.’

View attachment 175193​

Hunt on for diamond ring in Roxlyn Bowie case

BBM

Hmmm... Did investigators for Karen ever used luminol to determine suspicious areas in the home?

 

[sleepinoz]

Very good point, thanks for reminding!

The only forensics that I can think of, is blood. Since this is Karen's ensuite, it wouldn't be out of ordinary to find her DNA around, like hair, (and other organic matter.)

Blood that looked like she had been harmed, not the feminine type.

She could have been placed there for a while after the fact, or it might actually have happened there. Otherwise the stairs or garage etc would have been squeaky clean too.

Unless Borce was like Macbeth, washing himself incessantly after he killed?

MOO
(Sorry for any Shakespearean inaccuracies)

BBM

Hmmm... Did investigators for Karen ever used luminol to determine suspicious areas in the home?

If she was strangled (Hyoid) there would be no blood IMO. Her DNA would be in the ensuite anyway if it was her ensuite.

Luminol wouldn't be effective if she was strangled. But hopefully they tested as it wasn't known how she died at that point in time.