GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #71

[AgeofAquaruis]

Absolutely agree that he strangled or got her in a chokehold while she was asleep . He may have 'spooned ' her and THEN manouvered himself on top of her from behind, but he is far too cowardly to pick a fight with her and do it face to face.

I think that's exactly how he did it. Trapped her under the blankets,so she had no way of fighting.
Like Hell He found God and is telling the truth.

 

[boomburger]

I too believe she was strangled whilst she was still asleep. From what I've read about Chris, he would do anything and everything to avoid confrontations, so I doubt that he woke his wife up to talk about separation, as that sounds like the beginning of a huge confrontation to me!

 

[Yellow Rose]

I think the majority of us are in agreement that he strangled her while she was sleeping. Pinned her down to decrease the chances of her making an exit somehow.

 

[nanwv]

I too believe she was strangled whilst she was still asleep. From what I've read about Chris, he would do anything and everything to avoid confrontations, so I doubt that he woke his wife up to talk about separation, as that sounds like the beginning of a huge confrontation to me!

Without hardcore proof, I will never believe CW said anything about the plans he had for his new life, much less in the middle of the night.

Cowards are Cowards. Liars are Liars.

Whatever is easiest for the coward. CW never had any conversation with SW. He did a cowardly sneak attack and killed her.

I continue to have a hard time believing the kids were alive at the oil field.

 

[Synergizer Bunny]

...dmaybe that was why SW was wanting the Vivent system fixed. Cw might have disabled parts so he could come and go.

Chris could have gone to their online account and changed it so the notifications didn't go to her phone or computer. It's easy to do with our system.

He could have feigned ignorance and said that he didn't do anything to the account.

 

[Only4Justice]

There's been a lot of conversation in recent pages about the NK/CW dynamics. Having been through an intense affair, perhaps I can add a little perspective.

One thing that both parties experienced in my affair was deeply conflicted feelings. On the one hand, as good people, we wanted to do the right thing despite all the wrong feelings going on. On the other hand, there was an undeniable force that seemed to bring us together. It sets up tremendous emotional churn. There are different ways to respond to those feelings, such as trying to stay apart, coaching the other party on how to make things better in their marriage, etc. etc. The attempts may be well intentioned and sincere, even as the heart swoons and the affair blazes on. It may not make sense from an objective perspective, and it is very hard (actually impossible) to reconcile the two forces. A choice must be made.

Another characteristic I would say is the temptation to lie to serve the interests of the affair. There certainly is a huge amount of deception with one's spouse(s) to account for time away from the marriage, spiriting secret funds to spend on the affair, apparent loss of interest in the home life, physical and emotional distancing, etc. The lying can also extend to the love interest. This may include portraying one's spouse or marital relationship negatively to help justify the affair, misrepresenting intentions, and so on. One nasty thing about affairs is that they can turn otherwise honest people into liars.

A third characteristic is how obsessive one can get thinking about the love interest. I'm not normally an obsessive guy, but when one's heart is singing, when life now has vibrant color rarely seen, and when you feel poetry all around you, it is hard not to think constantly about the person who is enabling these amazing feelings. And of course there is the sex, which doesn't need explanation.

When I heard some of NK's interview, some what she described resonated with me as likely truthful. For example, coaching CW on his home life and relationship. I don't see that necessarily as NK trying to come off as blameless; I could easily see her expressing conflicted feelings and trying to 'do the right thing' with CW even as she fostered the affair. I would guess there are probably few women in affairs who like the thought of breaking up a family, especially with young children in the picture. I'm not defending NK, just pointing out that some of her apparent inconsistent behavior may actually have been genuine and not uncommon to people in affairs.

With CW, my hypothesis is that combining the incredibly powerful feelings that come with an intense affair, a psychopathic lack of empathy and moral obligation, and lack of emotional and general intelligence, and you have a recipe for disaster. I do believe that NK unleashed new self-awareness in CW, and that is does take a certain chemistry with the love interest to catalyze this (it was likely more than just about sex). Unfortunately, the self-awareness was narcissistic; and as a formally awkward guy who was marginally attractive, CW felt an over-compensated sense of power and potency. It probably was very difficult to contemplate walking away from NK and all she represented to him, and I have no doubt he obsessed mightily over her. But while most men may seek divorce as the only way to preserve the new relationship, the psycho in CW actually thought murdering his family was a way out. From my experience, I can relate to much of what occurred between NK and CW leading up to that horrible night. But Chris stupidly boxed himself in with lies to his love interest (he clearly was NOT very smart), and, in a flash of incredible cruelty and short-sightedness, wrapped his hands around Shan'ann's neck that night.

Chris made his choice.

I'm in the camp that CW is psychopathic and had contemplated murder as one of his options before that night. The evidence suggests he may have even targeted that night. But he may have limited his thinking to a more abstract level, because he clearly was not much of planner. Beyond the idiocy of boxing himself in so badly with NK, and beyond the moral horror of murder, the utterly unfathomable stupidity of his thinking that he had any chance in hell of actually getting away with it is impossible for me to comprehend.

And that 45 minute drive to the oil field. The time he had to think. Those babies...

Good God what a monster.

Most excellent post! Thank you.

 

[opalonyx]

I have my own personal feelings about NK but in all honestly the lingering feelings about her go beyond that. She seemed much more adept at lying than CW. Both in interviews and the way she knew how to hide things.

The Rzuceks alluded to feeling like she was a great factor in this while they were on Dr. Phil. NUA said in an interview with a YouTuber that she wonders if NK was involved somehow and was granted a plea deal in exchange for information. So I feel like its more than just being disliked for being a mistress.

Sure, police cleared her but they don't catch everything, even if they are brilliant. They didn't catch the shadows in the surveillance; a YouTuber did. Soon after the YouTuber posted his theory, investigators went to Wisconsin to question CW.

It's wrong to say with certainty that NK was involved with the crime. But I don't think its wrong to analyze the info and still wonder about her.

Eta: of course now I can't find the NUA phone interview on Youtube anymore so if that was a hoax then my apologies.

 

[molly1255]

Chris could have gone to their online account and changed it so the notifications didn't go to her phone or computer. It's easy to do with our system.

He could have feigned ignorance and said that he didn't do anything to the account.

My guess is he didn't have the passwords. He didn't even have the password to their bank account. He let Shanann handle everything and he was perfectly ok with that. It sure made his life a lot easier not to have to deal with any real details of adult life, JMO.

 

[eve9059]

I have my own personal feelings about NK but in all honestly the lingering feelings about her go beyond that. She seemed much more adept at lying than CW. Both in interviews and the way she knew how to hide things.

The Rzuceks alluded to feeling like she was a great factor in this while they were on Dr. Phil. NUA said in an interview with a YouTuber that she wonders if NK was involved somehow and was granted a plea deal in exchange for information. So I feel like its more than just being disliked for being a mistress.

Sure, police cleared her but they don't catch everything, even if they are brilliant. They didn't catch the shadows in the surveillance; a YouTuber did. Soon after the YouTuber posted his theory, investigators went to Wisconsin to question CW.

It's wrong to say with certainty that NK was involved with the crime. But I don't think its wrong to analyze the info and still wonder about her.

Ok-I’m not attacking you personally. It’s the thousands upon thousands of people that believe several of the things you said that are patently false.
1. Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think secret plea deals are legal nor would they apply here because there was no trial.
She gave them no information to help them, they specifically said she hindered them.
2.Family annihilators tend to have a profile. Chris doesn’t fit it perfectly but he fits a lot and what that doesn’t include is a team of killers killing people let alone children. Why would she google “can cops trace text messages” on August 14th if she was involved? To me that’s obvious fear of being found out for being immoral but not a killer and it explains most of her behavior.
3. They weren’t going to WI because of the “shadows.” Do you think a YouTuber “caught” what the FBI didn’t, preparing for what they thought would be one of the most high profile cases in recent years? Do you think they don’t have the best possible equipment and resources and didn’t watch that video enhanced repeatedly?
4. They were obviously going there primarily to profile him. That’s why they talked about his thoughts and feelings and family dynamics. They saw the bodies and I believe Tammy when she said “that’s what we struggle with, seeing the videos of you with your kids and then...” they aren’t manipulating him solely by saying you’re “unique”-they mean that because he actually is. He has many traits of a psychopath and many of an annihilator and many that are characteristic of neither. Secondarily they may want to get more about NK.
5. They don’t believe in the “shadows.” Notice that, repeatedly, they say “now is there any reason you wouldn’t want to tell us that they were already dead?” “Are you sure that’s what happened?” They do not believe him and as they said about the video, “it’s hard to see.” Because it is. Shadows guy also claimed NK was in the truck. C’mon. The DA doesnt believe it either. I’ve seen many people being encouraged to contact Weld County about shadows. Rourke wants no more shadow emails from people who think they know more than the FBI. The Rzuceks also seem comforted somehow that Chris has found God and is telling the truth. Maybe he’s letting him have that instead of saying “no they were already dead we know he’d planned it for days.” Bella’s injuries could not have happened that way. It was “sharp downward force”.

Not yelling at you specifically I’m just trying to say LE may have their reasons for publicly saying “yep shadows, credible!” other than them believing it. CW is claiming second degree-he plead to first degree murder for all 3 “for a reason”.

 

[kittycat3]

No one can tell me this guy was completely normal or a great guy and then just snapped one minute and killed his whole family. It doesn't happen that way. He was a nut before and it was covered over.

But that’s just it TeaTime! Nobody can say this guy had any history of violence, no reports of angry outbursts at work or elsewhere, no evidence of drug or alcohol abuse or other reckless behavior - The only questionable behavior reported started with his affair and the trouble in his marriage. And obviously the family issues reported with parents boycott of wedding and nutgate.

Friends and coworkers all were shocked.

This is why this case is so alarming and scary!!!

 

[Seenit]

Mother Watts always cleaning up after him. Payed his traffic ticket. The 'Perfect Teen Ager' didn't even know about it. It's like like like he never ever even dared looked sideways at her.
Then she was Hellbent on pinning the blame on Shannan.
Makes one wonder what other skeletons are in the closet.
MOO

Exactly! I suspect many.

 

[NuttMegg]

SBM
CW is claiming second degree-he plead to first degree murder for all 3 “for a reason”.

That isn't what he told the court, and not what he was sentenced for. He claimed he was guilty of first degree murder, separately for each one, one by one, no reason given.

IIRC He told his folks that he plead guilty "for a reason". He also pretty much told them to buzz off before the plea deal, not allowing calls with them that whole period from his arrest to his plea deal. CW admitted that his defense team asked him "about 100 times" if he wanted to accept the plea deal.

He also shocked his family to the core with the confession, once again making fools of them as they vehemently and publicly blamed Shan'ann for murdering her own babies. He admitted to the world that he brutally killed them all, murdered children right at the oil tanks, then threw them into the crude oil before they would have had time to even cool off (IMO). After an hour of driving time when he could have let them live.

In what way is "CW claiming 2nd degree murder"? When did he claim that?

 

[molly1255]

[

But that’s just it TeaTime! Nobody can say this guy had any history of violence, no reports of angry outbursts at work or elsewhere, no evidence of drug or alcohol abuse or other reckless behavior - The only questionable behavior reported started with his affair and the trouble in his marriage. And obviously the family issues reported with parents boycott of wedding and nutgate.

Friends and coworkers all were shocked.

This is why this case is so alarming and scary!!!

It is alarming and it's very scary that someone who appears to be normal would do what CW did. It's also scary that we've had some similar cases with men who were married, appeared to be doing well, were employed, had no criminal history, and no history of documented domestic violence.

Off the top of my head we have Scott Peterson, Chris Coleman and Charles Stuart. JMO, there is some definite weirdness in the family of origins there. I believe they all devalued their wives without their wives seeming to realize how badly they had been devalued by their husbands, if they realized it at all.

There is a mistress in there. I'm not sure if it was ever proven Stuart actually had a mistress, but he was, at a minimum, trying to make it happen with a young co-worker and he bought her jewelry after the murder.

Looks to me like these guys secured a new source of supply that they idealized before they discarded by murder.

It's freaking scary. JMO

 

[ElleJaycee]

[

It is alarming and it's very scary that someone who appears to be normal would do what CW did. It's also scary that we've had some similar cases with men who were married, appeared to be doing well, were employed, had no criminal history, and no history of documented domestic violence.

Off the top of my head we have Scott Peterson, Chris Coleman and Charles Stuart. JMO, there is some definite weirdness in the family of origins there. I believe they all devalued their wives without their wives seeming to realize how badly they had been devalued by their husbands, if they realized it at all.

There is a mistress in there. I'm not sure if it was ever proven Stuart actually had a mistress, but he was, at a minimum, trying to make it happen with a young co-worker and he bought her jewelry after the murder.

Looks to me like these guys secured a new source of supply that they idealized before they discarded by murder.

It's freaking scary. JMO

Scott Peterson also had an overbearing, dominant mother. He too was treated as the golden boy who could do no wrong. I think that's where the similarities end.

The differences between Scott and CW are this:

Scott had warning signs that Laci was aware of. He had cheated on her in the past with her knowledge. Apparently she forgave him for that.
He even went so far as to invite one of his mistresses to his college graduation knowing that Laci would also be in attendance.

He had explicitly stated that he did not want kids and that he was "hoping for infertility". CW persuaded SW to have a third baby.
Scott was already telling Amber that Laci was dead and that he was widowed.
He told Laci that he did not want to feel Laci's stomach whenever Baby Connor was kicking.
Besides the affair and the overbearing mother/son worship, CW and SP are two different animals but evil nonetheless. I feel like SP is less socially awkward than Chris. By all accounts Scott was popular with his peers in school contrasted with Chris who kept to himself. Chris is definitely the more covert of the two.

 

[molly1255]

Scott Peterson also had an overbearing, dominant mother. He too was treated as the golden boy who could do no wrong. I think that's where the similarities end.

The differences between Scott and CW are this:

Scott had warning signs that Laci was aware of. He had cheated on her in the past with her knowledge. Apparently she forgave him for that.
He even went so far as to invite one of his mistresses to his college graduation knowing that Laci would also be in attendance.

He had explicitly stated that he did not want kids and that he was "hoping for infertility". CW persuaded SW to have a third baby.
Scott was already telling Amber that Laci was dead and that he was widowed.
He told Laci that he did not want to feel Laci's stomach whenever Baby Connor was kicking.
Besides the affair and the overbearing mother/son worship, CW and SP are two different animals but evil nonetheless. I feel like SP is less socially awkward than Chris. By all accounts Scott was popular with his peers in school contrasted with Chris who kept to himself. Chris is definitely the more covert of the two.

Outside of some similar demographics, what appears to be some similarities in their motives, presence of financial or other stressors, presence of a secret life/mistress, and what appears to be some funky foo issues, no two are really the same.

They all appear to come out of the blue, with no one ever suspecting they were capable of doing what they did. The question I find myself asking is are these guys psychopaths, or is there something different going on with them that differentiates them from other psychopathic murderers, other than we know that they murdered their families?

 

[human]

Scott Peterson had a totally disturbed mother. She kept giving her kids away. The doc told her to keep Scott.

 

[MollyDDD]

Without hardcore proof, I will never believe CW said anything about the plans he had for his new life, much less in the middle of the night.

Cowards are Cowards. Liars are Liars.

Whatever is easiest for the coward. CW never had any conversation with SW. He did a cowardly sneak attack and killed her.

I continue to have a hard time believing the kids were alive at the oil field.

I agree, I think he killed the girls before Shanann even got home.

 

[MollyDDD]

BBM. I think you are spot on. Obsession is a symptom of a personality disorder. CW is a covert, toxic narcissist who lost control of his wife so he moved on to his next prey. He'll be playing the blame game the rest of his life. I just wish the media would stop giving him a platform to play his game.

JMO

I agree, lock him up and throw away the key. Do not give him an ounce of attention. Murderous loser.

 

[Seenit]

My guess is he didn't have the passwords. He didn't even have the password to their bank account. He let Shanann handle everything and he was perfectly ok with that. It sure made his life a lot easier not to have to deal with any real details of adult life, JMO.

I totally respectfully disagree. I was married to a psychopath (didn't know it at the time), but he always spent every cent we had..or did not have...I tried to limit him by being in complete control of our accounts. The more he messed it up, the more I had to Hoover over him, and the more he became angry about it. Just another reason to "hate" me. Meanwhile he never cared that he was taking money away from our mortgage budget or groceries. He just tried to hide it better and always resented me for acting "like his mom".

 

[Seenit]

Scott Peterson also had an overbearing, dominant mother. He too was treated as the golden boy who could do no wrong. I think that's where the similarities end.

The differences between Scott and CW are this:

Scott had warning signs that Laci was aware of. He had cheated on her in the past with her knowledge. Apparently she forgave him for that.
He even went so far as to invite one of his mistresses to his college graduation knowing that Laci would also be in attendance.

He had explicitly stated that he did not want kids and that he was "hoping for infertility". CW persuaded SW to have a third baby.
Scott was already telling Amber that Laci was dead and that he was widowed.
He told Laci that he did not want to feel Laci's stomach whenever Baby Connor was kicking.
Besides the affair and the overbearing mother/son worship, CW and SP are two different animals but evil nonetheless. I feel like SP is less socially awkward than Chris. By all accounts Scott was popular with his peers in school contrasted with Chris who kept to himself. Chris is definitely the more covert of the two.

I never knew that about SP. I didn't follow that case as in depth. But it is a case that has profoundly changed my outlook on life.