Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #11

[Tighthead]

But who does that aside from the villains in the old Batman TV show? The murders were not efficient by any standard and I struggle to find any sort of comparable crimes.

That’s why I’m struggling to accept the sophisticated hitmen angle. Inefficient is a good descriptor.

I think the Shermans may have known their killer(s). Access may have been gained by a knock on the door.

It reminds me a little of the JBR case; the evidence doesn’t cleanly all fit one theory, and if/when the truth is revealed everyone would be a little surprised.

 

[rickcross]

That’s why I’m struggling to accept the sophisticated hitmen angle. Inefficient is a good descriptor.

I think the Shermans may have known their killer(s). Access may have been gained by a knock on the door.

It reminds me a little of the JBR case; the evidence doesn’t cleanly all fit one theory, and if/when the truth is revealed everyone would be a little surprised.

If someone knocked on the door, one would think that that pesky security camera would have caught them, but the neighbour said nothing about that.

The reason I think a sophisticated hitman fits the profile is because the scene appears to be void of any evidence they were there. No evidence of them arriving or leaving. No evidence of forced entry. If a sophisticated killer was meticulous, it could be done. Some random acquaintance, who is committing his first murder, likely wouldn't have the wherewithal to leave no evidence of his presence. MOO.

 

[ldlager]

Is that what you believe?

No, I believe they were murdered

 

[ldlager]

Why would someone filled with massive abilities such as Russians do such a crime? They could have easily fixed a car to careen off into an accident.

They could have givien Honey some kind of drug to have an illness that killer her.

If they wanted to send a message, they could have killed them and sent a message to intended people that they would be next.

No need for the drama

It is very possible that the motivation of the murderers was to punish one of them by making him/her watch the murder of the other, and then subsequently kill the other person.
Anonymous killing via a bullet or poison wouldn't produce the hurt that someone wanted to inflict on them immediately before their death.

 

[Tighthead]

It is very possible that the motivation of the murderers was to punish one of them by making him/her watch the murder of the other, and then subsequently kill the other person.
Anonymous killing via a bullet or poison wouldn't produce the hurt that someone wanted to inflict on them immediately before their death.

That’s a little movie villainish though. I’m not saying it’s not possible, but it reminds me of Austin Powers where the son keeps saying just shoot him.

 

[Tighthead]

If someone knocked on the door, one would think that that pesky security camera would have caught them, but the neighbour said nothing about that.

The reason I think a sophisticated hitman fits the profile is because the scene appears to be void of any evidence they were there. No evidence of them arriving or leaving. No evidence of forced entry. If a sophisticated killer was meticulous, it could be done. Some random acquaintance, who is committing his first murder, likely wouldn't have the wherewithal to leave no evidence of his presence. MOO.

Many security cameras don’t provide quality images, especially at night.

We really don’t know what evidence there is/isn’t. Only that it is not sufficient for an arrest. To say there is no evidence seems presumptuous.

 

[deugirtni]

It seems the killer(s) may have been smart enough *not* to park in the driveway (I've never killed anyone, but even I wouldn't park in the driveway if I was about to murder someone?), nor enter via the front door? So it's possible, as mentioned earlier, that he/they could have accessed any of the other 8 entry points, perhaps not in the neighbor's camera view, and/or could have entered in the dark, which the neighbor's camera may not have been able to catch. Apparently the moon on the night of December 13th, 2017 only provided 15% illumination: Moon Phase for December 13, 2017

 

[rickcross]

It seems the killer(s) may have been smart enough *not* to park in the driveway (I've never killed anyone, but even I wouldn't park in the driveway if I was about to murder someone?), nor enter via the front door? So it's possible, as mentioned earlier, that he/they could have accessed any of the other 8 entry points, perhaps not in the neighbor's camera view, and/or could have entered in the dark, which the neighbor's camera may not have been able to catch. Apparently the moon on the night of December 13th, 2017 only provided 15% illumination: Moon Phase for December 13, 2017

I'd really like to know how many of those entry points are keyed entries? I know that the houses I've lived in only have key access through the front door. You can lock the back doors but you can only unlock them from the inside. Early on police stated that there was no forced entry, leading them to believe this was a murder suicide, so I'd assume that all entrances were locked, therefore they made that conclusion. I also believe that is why the lockbox came under so much scrutiny. But good point about the camera. There could very well be unidentifiable footage. I'm reminded of the Dellen Millard footage at the Bobcat dealership.

 

[deugirtni]

At the press conference announcing the 10M reward, Greenspan alluded to the premise that if TPS had bothered to actually examine all of the 9 points of entry, they would have determined how the killer(s) gained access. When TPS told media on the day the bodies were found, that there was no evidence of forced entry, it was mere hours after the discovery, and therefore unlikely they would have had time by then to do their due diligence in examining all of the 9 entry points... it seems they were making that statement based on what was plainly before their eyes at first glance. jmo.
If you look at the home's floorplans, you can look at the points where the doors open to the outside.

 

[ldlager]

At the press conference announcing the 10M reward, Greenspan alluded to the premise that if TPS had bothered to actually examine all of the 9 points of entry, they would have determined how the killer(s) gained access. When TPS told media on the day the bodies were found, that there was no evidence of forced entry, it was mere hours after the discovery, and therefore unlikely they would have had time by then to do their due diligence in examining all of the 9 entry points... it seems they were making that statement based on what was plainly before their eyes at first glance. jmo.
If you look at the home's floorplans, you can look at the points where the doors open to the outside.

My sense of what greenspan was referring to was that I believe that experts can determine if a lock has been tampered with or picked at some point, even though it appears fine. LE probably did not perform a close enough examination to determine that had occurred. I believe that the PI team did that examination, and discovered a possible entry point that LE missed.

 

[ldlager]

That’s a little movie villainish though. I’m not saying it’s not possible, but it reminds me of Austin Powers where the son keeps saying just shoot him.

If one doesn’t believe my theory that they were made t9 be punished by watching the other one die, then logically That only leaves one possibility- they were both targeted and both meant to be killed. Otherwise, just kill Barry, or just kill honey individually. If they were both targeted, then something they shared together (which really wasn’t too much from what I have read) got them both killed.

She wasn’t involved in Apotex. He wasn’t overly involved in her charitable work it seems. What did they share that got them both killed?

 

[Arnie M]

If you have a copy of that list you mentioned, I’d be interested in reading it.

Hi Lex ..... I was not able to find my list from last year .... darn !!! .... it was pretty good ..... all I did was use logic to compile all the reasons a "professional" would never ever risk undertaking a double murder in a setting like that.

I was prompted to make the list after reading this quote from the Wall Street Journal ..... "The Greenspan team came to believe the crime scene had been staged , and was likely the work of hired professionals"

A professional killer would do something fast and quick , and if indeed he was contracted to do it in the home and "leave a message" (the staging) he failed completely because to this day nobody knows what the heck the message is

A professional killer would have to spend a lot of time getting to know the home and habits of the Shermans .... not easy to do without being an obvious stalker .... not to mention possible security cameras all over the place.

Some folks here think a killer may have posed as a prospective real estate customer and could have toured the home , and got a chance to see the layout and check for security systems . Trouble is that would require the killer to expose himself to real estate agents , witnesses , security video footage , standard real estate background checks to see if he could purchase (afford) the house , etc etc .... a huge amount of exposure.

Speaking of cameras (The Wall Street Journal article) said ...... "The Sherman home wasn't gated , but security cameras pointed outside" ..... Now if that is true the police would be all over it , and maybe they have , but did not find anything linked to an outside stranger coming to the home.

But that is all beside the point , because there is absolutely no way a professional killer would expose himself to all that risk of being caught or identified.

There are a lot more logical reasons it is unlikely to be the work of a professional killer ..... Everybody please feel free to add to this list

 

[human]

My neighbor has inexpensive cameras. Blink. I do not kmow how they work, but the picture quality is great.

Hie burglar was at 2:00 AM. No light but the burglar was lit up.

I imagine billionaires have better cameras. My neighbor’s burglar was wearing a total head covering.

 

[Arnie M]

What about an ‘inside killer’. Someone close to the Shermans. .

Yes Lex .... the suing cousins come to mind of course. (At this point I do not think KW was involved)

However , something keeps lurking in the back of my mind ..... that it could be someone local or an "inside killer" with a grudge ....... and here is the bizarre thought I keep having ....... Some of the original contractors were sued for $2 million after the house was built ..... some guys can hold a grudge for a long time ...... now if they see the house up for sale and maybe Sherman described as a great design and well built (the opposite of what Sherman said in the lawsuit) it could trigger a response

No logic was used in this post.
hehe

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes Lex .... the suing cousins come to mind of course. (At this point I do not think KW was involved)

However , something keeps lurking in the back of my mind ..... that it could be someone local or an "inside killer" with a grudge ....... and here is the bizarre thought I keep having ....... Some of the original contractors were sued for $2 million after the house was built ..... some guys can hold a grudge for a long time ...... now if they see the house up for sale and maybe Sherman described as a great design and well built (the opposite of what Sherman said in the lawsuit) it could trigger a response

No logic was used in this post.
hehe

Just to point out your comment “some guys can hold a grudge for a long time”.....definately does not exclude Kerry Winter.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Just to point out your comment “some guys can hold a grudge for a long time”.....definately does not exclude Kerry Winter.

If his only involvement is his grudge, maybe it’s time to let it go.

He has bills to pay.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Yes Lex .... the suing cousins come to mind of course. (At this point I do not think KW was involved)

However , something keeps lurking in the back of my mind ..... that it could be someone local or an "inside killer" with a grudge ....... and here is the bizarre thought I keep having ....... Some of the original contractors were sued for $2 million after the house was built ..... some guys can hold a grudge for a long time ...... now if they see the house up for sale and maybe Sherman described as a great design and well built (the opposite of what Sherman said in the lawsuit) it could trigger a response

No logic was used in this post.
hehe

I think it’s someone young, strong and lacks empathy. Millard/Smich type.

A younger generation of someone on the losing end of a Sherman court battle.

 

[rickcross]

If one doesn’t believe my theory that they were made t9 be punished by watching the other one die, then logically That only leaves one possibility- they were both targeted and both meant to be killed. Otherwise, just kill Barry, or just kill honey individually. If they were both targeted, then something they shared together (which really wasn’t too much from what I have read) got them both killed.

She wasn’t involved in Apotex. He wasn’t overly involved in her charitable work it seems. What did they share that got them both killed?

I get what you are saying about making one of them watch, but once Honey is dead, why not just shoot Barry in the head?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Yes Lex .... the suing cousins come to mind of course. (At this point I do not think KW was involved)

However , something keeps lurking in the back of my mind ..... that it could be someone local or an "inside killer" with a grudge ....... and here is the bizarre thought I keep having ....... Some of the original contractors were sued for $2 million after the house was built ..... some guys can hold a grudge for a long time ...... now if they see the house up for sale and maybe Sherman described as a great design and well built (the opposite of what Sherman said in the lawsuit) it could trigger a response

No logic was used in this post.
hehe

bbm
This! Worth now x millions. The grudge would even include both of the Shermans and not only one of them. IMO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

If one doesn’t believe my theory that they were made t9 be punished by watching the other one die, then logically That only leaves one possibility- they were both targeted and both meant to be killed. Otherwise, just kill Barry, or just kill honey individually. If they were both targeted, then something they shared together (which really wasn’t too much from what I have read) got them both killed.

She wasn’t involved in Apotex. He wasn’t overly involved in her charitable work it seems. What did they share that got them both killed?

bbm
Their 3 (of four) children, born by surrogate mother/s.