MA - Lizzie Borden: Axe murders, Fall River, 4 Aug 1892

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Another reason I have thought Lizzie did it is because she and her sister and Alice stayed in the house that after the murders....there is no way in the world I would have stayed in that house that night! I would be scared the killer was going to come back to finish the rest of the people in the house off unless I was the actual murderer.....
 
I used to think that Lizzie did it with or without Bridget's help in covering it up but I've changed my mind. After reading Bridget's testimony of how many times she saw Lizzie at the screen door that morning, I have come to believe that Lizzie had prearranged for someone to kill both her step-mother and father. Even when Lizzie called out to Bridget when Bridget was in the backyard with her bucket about window-washing, Lizzie was once again at the screen door. At that very moment she may have let the killer in when Bridget went for water in the barn because Lizzie locked the screen door. Also she locked the front door which prevented her father from barging in when the first murder was taking place. When Bridget went upstairs to rest instead of going to the fabric sale as suggested by Lizzie then Lizzie had to bring the killer out from his/her hiding place to do the deed and then let him/her out the back door. Then Lizzie called to Bridget. JMO Intrigued to hear others' theories !
 
"A Private Disgrace: Lizzie Borden by Daylight" by Victoria Lincoln....written by a lady who remembered Lizzie from when the author was a young girl living in the neighborhood. She explores the theory that Lizzie had a form of epilepsy that rendered her unaware of what she was doing, and may explain the murders. Fascinating book!
 
I agree with this line of thinking. If memory serves me right (no guarantees), Lizzie's mother suffered from a mental disturbance of some sort and it was also believed that Lizzie may have had migraines that rendered her unable to control her actions. I do believe this could be the case. She purchased prussic acid, is believed to have laced the mutton, hated Abby - things that point to a typical way women kill (via poison). She was acquitted because the men of the jury couldn't think of locking up their "daughter" for murder.
 
I just saw the thread about the lifetime movie and I guess there is going to be a series...

It was pointed out that there was a thread here...

The Fall River Historical Society will reopen on Tuesday, April 7, 2015.

http://lizzieborden.org/

I can't wait to visit once this site is opened back up.
 
A point made over on Casebook recently is that the killer made sure that it would be obvious who died first. That explains the wide time gap between the murders and made it so that Lizzie and her sister got the inheritance rather than Abby's relatives. A damning motive I think. Murdering your parents just because you think you're too good to work for a living is beyond anything anyone but a sociopath could understand.
 
sneezy said:
It is somewhere about this time that John Morse returns to the house for lunch. Seeing the commotion in the yard, street and surrounding the house does he rush in to see what happened? Not right away! He stands in the yard eating a few pears before going in...Why? Did he already know what happened? Why was he so seemingly unconcerned?

One policeman gets the idea of taking pictures to "preserve" the crime scene....some of the very first crime scene photos....

When questioned about his whereabouts at the time of the murders, John Morse gives his statement about visiting relatives on the other side of town and proceeds to give the badge number of the trolly car conductor/driver a MULTIDIGIT number....how many people would notice and REMEMBER SUCH A LONG NUMBER if they didn't have reason to? He then leaves to send a telegram to Emma to get her to come home...

The neighbor/doctor somewhere in here, gives Lizzie drugs, I believe it may have been laudnum to calm her nerves. All of her statements given to police that day were after she was medicated....which may be a legitimate reason for the different versions of her statements as to her whereabouts at the times of the murders.

The bodies of Abby and Andrew were autopsied ON THE DINING ROOM TABLE! Their stomachs were removed and tied off with string and sent off to a professor at either Harvard or Yale to see if their times of death could be determined by the digestion of the stomach contents. The bodies are then removed.

A hatchet is found in an ash bin in the basement with a broken handle. It seems to have been recently broken and cleaned. There is a small amount of blood and hair on the hatchet. It is taken into evidence.

Emma arrives home, John Morse leaves, and Lizzie's friend Alice Russell comes to stay with them IN THE HOUSE!

At the funeral, the medical examiner arrives to REMOVE the HEADS of both Abby and Andrew for further examination. The bodies are then buried without their heads.
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sneezy said:
I really think that there were a lot of factors that contributed to the family dynamic that was "poisoning" to Lizzie's character. I think the fact that her father cut off the gas to the house and made them use oil lamps, sold the horse and carriage, and to me...seemed to dominate the women in the house totally and utterly, I really think this caused Lizzie to repress a lot of feelings.

I am a medium, as in yes, I see dead people, can pick up on energies and the like. I went to the house not long ago...and while I can't back up my theory with actual evidence, I can tell you my impressions of the house. I didn't pick up much actually related to the muder surprisingly enough. The feeling that overwhelmed me, that made me sick to my stomach and gave me a headach was OPRESSION. Total oppression. I did NOT expect that when I got there. I thought the murders/death would "slap" me in the face but they didn't, it was the opression of Andrew/the father. You know when you walk into a room after 2 people have had an arguement and the air feels all thick and even if the people are not talking, you can tell that they had been arguing? That's what the house felt like to me, except it was so much stonger.

I just "feel" that there was more to the Andrew domination of the family than just words. I just have this gut feeling that at some point one, if not both of the girls had been molested in some way or abused. I think in such a society where "marrying" girls were ones that were "pure" that possibly this is why neither Lizzie or Emma ever married. Sort of like they were "tainted". I think this gives great weight to your comment about them being "asexual".

If you look at the layout of the house, the room known now as "Lizzie's room" that opened directly to the Master bedroom, was originally Emma's. I also read that when Emma had the room, the door was not blocked. It was only when Lizzie got older that she traded rooms with Emma, Emma moving into the smaller room and Lizzie taking the larger room that connected with their parents room. It was only after Lizzie took this connecting room that the door was then locked and blocked with a desk. Since Lizzie is generally regarded as the one with the stonger personality, I sincerely believe that she was trying to protect her sister from their father.<snip for brevity>.
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I have always believed that Emma was the one who killed Abbey and Andrew, largely for the reasons you have posted. She tried to raise Lizzy and take care of her and there were 'un-natural' things going on in that house. There was a carriage seen that day out in the street that nobody knew why it was there. I think it was Emma's. She returned to Fairhaven immediately after killing Andrew and Abbey. She supported Lizzie throughout the trial and tried to live with her after the acquittal, but Lizzie's chosen lifestyle was not suitable. In Emma's later life she was known to prowl her home with an axe to insure her safety.
 
The film LIZZIE came out about a week ago; has anyone seen it?
 
STANDREID said:
The film LIZZIE came out about a week ago; has anyone seen it?
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I haven't seen it. The last Lizzie movie I saw was the Christina Ricci thing. I see this one stars Chloe Sevigny and Kristen Stewart. I'm not a fan of Kristen Stewart, but I like Chloe Sevigny. I'll wait for Netflix or whatever. Did you watch it, Stan?
 
Lizzie committed the murders plane and simple. Within hours of the murders she had full control of the crime scene and all evidence. Like others pointed out, if something happened to father, then stepmother would have gotten all the money.
 
flourish said:
I haven't seen it. The last Lizzie movie I saw was the Christina Ricci thing. I see this one stars Chloe Sevigny and Kristen Stewart. I'm not a fan of Kristen Stewart, but I like Chloe Sevigny. I'll wait for Netflix or whatever. Did you watch it, Stan?
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No, I haven't seen it. I was wondering if someone had a
regarding whether it was told from the view that lizzie was guilty, innocent or if they left it unsolved.

The Ricci movie was the last one I saw too. My first Lizzie drama I saw-the 1961 TV teleplay on Armstrong Circle Theater.
 
1961? Wow, I guess I've been arguing about the case for 57 years:thinking:
 
I will be visiting the Lizzie Borden Bed and Breakfast this May. I am taking a road trip from Texas to New York with my parents who are both in their early 70's. My mom has always wanted to see the house where the murders took place and I think I got my morbid love of true crime listening to my mother talk to her friends about Lizzie when I was a young child. My dad isn't so happy about going to the Lizzie Borden B& B so he said if my mom and I spend the night in Lizzie & Emma's room he will just sleep in the suburban that night. He said he isn't scared but I know he is but just doesn't want to admit it. I have wanted to go there for years and finally we have our trip planned and will get there in May. I'm hoping to go visit Lizzie's grave as well.
When it comes to the murders I certainly believe Lizzie was the murderer BUT I believe she had every right to do what she did. Please don't slam me too bad for saying this but I think she killed them because her father was sexually abusing Lizzie and her step mother knew it and did nothing to stop it from happening. I know that murder is wrong but if I would have been in Lizzie's shoes at the time I would have done the exact same thing. Now if I'm wrong about the sexual abuse then I take what I said back but I do believe something was something seriously wrong going on in that house and Lizzie might have felt that murder was the only way to stop the abuse. IMO
 
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