CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #51 *ARREST*

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I'm going to share something that happened when I was a very small child. I've thought several times of sharing on this thread and since we're talking about the body, I'm writing this but it's something I always tried not to think about. There was a fire at a neighbor lady's house and all the men in the community ran to try to get the lady out but the flames had already taken over and they couldn't get to her. My dad was there for several hours until the fire was out. It was during the night and I heard him come home. I heard him tell mom that she was shrunk down to the size of a baby doll. This stuck in my mind and I think this could be the case with Kelsey.
 
Why would he give her the gun back knowing he was gonna kill her?
"Here's your gun back, I'm gonna kill you tomorrow anyway"...
Yep he thinks he is above reproach!
I wish she'd have SHOT HIM!
MOO
 
Why would he give her the gun back knowing he was gonna kill her?
"Here's your gun back, I'm gonna kill you tomorrow anyway"...
Yep he thinks he is above reproach!
I wish she'd have SHOT HIM!
MOO
I believe he gave it back because he wanted it to appear that she had used her own gun to committ suicide. For some reason, the plan changed. JMO
 
I had forgot about the target practice. Makes me think that Patrick suggested this and that would have shown her gun being fired and she would have had lead on her hands from firing the gun to make it look like suicide. She was supposed to have died the night before, in my opinion, but something altered the plan.
SABBM

Something... or someone ??

The list of players who knew he was going to do this is, almost as large as those around him who knew afterwards.
Can't believe those who knew PF wanted her gone, or was planning the deed, said nothing.
And mommy dearest clamping her lips -- points to some level of knowledge or involvement. Imo.
 
The stinking smell would be very noticeable and I think adding wood to it would make it even more noticeable and "heavy." The smoke would be toxic if inhaled. KK is a nurse and she would know that fact.

We also know KK is a liar. I just don't believe PF took the trouble to hide the body in a remote barn only to turn around and burn it in his front yard. He may have burned the tote in his yard but I doubt KB's body was in it.

JMO
Unless PF fesses up with horrid details like CW did, it is hard for us believe a woman with a history of lying, I do have faith LE,CBI, FBI knew enough about a burning body scenario that KK had to describe certain things she smelled and saw that they were convinced they attempted to burn KB body. If more evidence and testimonies come forward to prove that did not happen, then Hannah bar the door ! We will be sleuthing this case longer than two years . I do not know any of the detectives, fire specialists, soil specialists etc. involved in this case personally and assume most of us don't,IMO they didn't jump off the high dive before checking to see if their was water in the pool. I respect your opinion and stay open minded to what might come down the pipe in the future. Geez- most of the WS posters here were not prepared for KK ( how do you prepare for KK?) and what she had to say about the events that took place from November 22-24 2018. Some agree she got off easy, PF is in jail for swinging a baseball so hard to KB's head that it caused teeth to dislodge and fly out of her mouth by the roots, that in itself is unimaginable. I fully expect the DA to have data telling us the force of impact it would take to make that happen plus details that will be hard to read . Until it is known to us that something different happened on Thanksgiving Day 2018 or after, I have to go with the knowledge believed and proven by CBI, LE and the DA as fact and pray they find KB's remains as a double indemnity insurance pay out.
I agree KK has done some dispicable things and is a very sick excuse for a human and has been proven to be a liar. Liar Liar Pants on Fire !
IMO she was polygraphed more than once backwards and forwards to get the plea deal.
I understand any doubts anybody has about PF period.
 
I think the future would have found PF investing in a King-sized tote to hold the Rodeo Queen.

He wasn't going to let her walk around forever with his secrets. MOO
There are no facts thus far to prove he has killed in the past.
Did he have the potential ? H--- Yes ! We do have facts to prove that. I think he would of never stopped. His anger was not be corralled. Obviously KB is not here to tell her story but I think he had most likely abused her physically as well as emotionally. I think he badgered her into putting a gun to head at one point. He is the worse kind of abusers IMO.
 
This has also been worrisome to me, and I reached pretty similiar conclusions as you in regards to her meaning "safe" as in emotionally safe or stable. I am unsure as to whether PF said this or if this is what PF told CB. The deal with the gun went back to New Year's Eve after the baby was born. KB put a gun to her head and threatened to shoot herself. PF took her gun away at that time. This was mentioned by CB so it apparently happened. Remember that PF said that they broke up on New Year's Eve of the previous year. This is my theory, at this point, connecting some of the dots. I think that KB expected that they would get married now that the baby was born. I think that was when PF used the lack of money to delay marrying her and she was devastated and probably ashamed because she had had a baby out of wedlock and now the dad was not marrying her. It appears that they did not fully break up, and had an up and down relationship. I feel this is what put KB in a deep depression. I think she also emotionally started pulling away from him. For some people, when you expect to spend a lifetime with someone and are deeply committed you can't just poof, and walk away. You slowly start to separate emotionally and detach. PF likely sensed this and would tug on her heart strings to pull her back. He wanted control ove whether she stayed or left. I think she was afraid of him and wanted to leave but was also afraid to do so.

I think that Patrick gave the gun back and said she seemed to be in an emotionally good place in order to make sure CB and law enforcement knew that she had a gun. Obviously that gun was missing. This was to set the stage that she went somewhere and committed suicide. He mentioned this in his interview with law enforcement. To both CB and LE, he made sure it sounded like she was stable and good with the breakup...in fact, as though she were the one beaking up. It would have been negligent of him to give the gun back if she were distraught, so he needed to play up what a good place she was in. This could have been believeable that she hiked out somewhere and ended things, but that would have required that it be local and there were those Idaho pings. Idaho could have been believeable, but her vehicles were in the driveway. To have come up with elaborate scenarios and then forgot key points is just so weird.

in what world does your partner worry about you and take your gun from you to protect you from yourself, only to later bludgeon you to death with a baseball bat? does PF have multiple personalities?
 
in what world does your partner worry about you and take your gun from you to protect you from yourself, only to later bludgeon you to death with a baseball bat? does PF have multiple personalities?
Yeah, one is Dumb, the other is Dumber.

It doesn’t seem to make much sense, does it?

To be so worried about someone that you take her gun, then wind up killing her yourself?
 
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Yeah, one is Dumb, the other is Dumber.

It doesn’t seem to make much sense, does it?

To be so worried about someone that you take her gun, then wind up killing her yourself?

BBM:
Disclaimer that the following is speculation only:
That whole story about KB threatening to shoot herself rings false to me, and I'm not sure why. One thing's for sure: PF never worried about KB's wellbeing for one single minute.
So that isn't what that whole gun confiscation was about.

If memory serves, KB and PF were reportedly arguing over "finances" (this part is entirely believable) when KB threatened to shoot herself. It would not surprise me if PF was extremely mentally cruel to KB and manipulated her emotions with comments that implied that either he and/or Baby K would be better off without her around. This may have been PF's first strategy with regard to how to get rid of KB.

Perhaps that fight over money and comments PF made to her during that argument are what provoked her to make such a "threat," and it was more a reflection of her despair r/t his cruelty toward her than any actual desire she had to kill herself. PF seems like the type of person who is constantly playing mind games with others and attempting to manipulate others with his emotional reactions.

Perhaps PF tried but couldn't manipulate KB into pulling the trigger, so he took the gun away from her at that point once he realized that plan didn't work. I think he took the gun to give the impression of being a caring, concerned fiancé who would never harm her.

Yet another brilliant attempt to throw suspicion off himself, even as he was soliciting KK to come bash her head in with a bat.

All of the Above: JMO.
 
I just never got the feeling the baby was in danger either, but of course I don't have any inside information. Certainly LE would have to take it into consideration.

I’ve thought the same....with him knowing the relationship was ending ..(if there really was one the past year knowing what we now know of PF & KK’s relationship/affair...poor KB)... add to that he knew Momma SF would really be the one who took care of Baby K and he probably was counting on no longer having to pay KB the @$700/month he had currently been paying! Sick twisted mind that PF has!

IMO

If he was paying that, it was voluntary right?- no formal legal custody or support determination?
 
True, but it appears he killed Kelsey so he could have custody of the baby in the first place.

It wouldn’t make sense to kill the very person you killed to have.

I could see some murder/suicide scenario in some people, but not in this guy.

Regardless though, it was far safer to remove the baby to be removed from the custody of that side of her family.

he helped KB move to CO - he used to be worried about her too. no real idea what he would do. "making sense" - not one of his talents IMO.
 
BBM:
Disclaimer that the following is speculation only:
That whole story about KB threatening to shoot herself rings false to me, and I'm not sure why. One thing's for sure: PF never worried about KB's wellbeing for one single minute.
So that isn't what that whole gun confiscation was about.

If memory serves, KB and PF were reportedly arguing over "finances" (this part is entirely believable) when KB threatened to shoot herself. It would not surprise me if PF was extremely mentally cruel to KB and manipulated her emotions with comments that implied that either he and/or Baby K would be better off without her around. This may have been PF's first strategy with regard to how to get rid of KB.

Perhaps that fight over money and comments PF made to her during that argument are what provoked her to make such a "threat," and it was more a reflection of her despair r/t his cruelty toward her than any actual desire she had to kill herself. PF seems like the type of person who is constantly playing mind games with others and attempting to manipulate others with his emotional reactions.

Perhaps PF tried but couldn't manipulate KB into pulling the trigger, so he took the gun away from her at that point once he realized that plan didn't work. I think he took the gun to give the impression of being a caring, concerned fiancé who would never harm her.

Yet another brilliant attempt to throw suspicion off himself, even as he was soliciting KK to come bash her head in with a bat.

All of the Above: JMO.

If my memory serves me correctly, KB had admitted to her mother that the gun incident happened. Like you, I think he played head games and probably said very hurtful things to her, possibly ridiculed her. If you look at her Pinterest page you will see many quotes about relationships that make you think that she was in one that was painful and that she was conflicted as to whether to stay or leave. The quotes will show a date that the original posted uploaded the quote, but not when KB posted the quote, so it doesn't help with timelines; however, I felt like reading some of those that PF was putting her through stuff. He did use the incident to portray himself as a caring hero. Reminds me of another incident of duplicity...when he told KB's mom that he loved her daughter after he had savagely beat her to death and burned her body.

I feel like when this goes to trial, friends, coworkers, and her church members will probably come forward with more information about what PF put her through. Although she is quiet, people like her are usually very truthful and candid with a very few people that they trust. She would almost surely had to confide in someone.
 
Yes he was apparently voluntarily giving her money. There was no child support order in place.
Provided that was the truth. Wasn't it his mom that said that? I find that hard to believe especially since he was providing some of the child care. I would believe it more before she went to work for Doss, or like he gave her a check from time to time, but I don't see PF voluntarily doing that. He just doesn't seem like the type. I think Ma F was just trying to make him sound good.
 
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Provided that was the truth. Wasn't it his mom that said that? I find that hard to believe especially since he was providing some of the child care. I would believe it more before she went to work for Doss, or like he gave her a check from time to time, but I don't see PF voluntarily doing that. He just doesn't seem like the type. I like Ma F was just trying to make him sound good.

or maybe PF got $700/mo out of the "kitty" and told SF that he gave it to KB.

the whole 'fear of paying' .. cannot help but contrast that with spouses who are owed heaps of child support and it is just not paid and they get orders and try to enforce them and it is just not paid. contrast that with murder before there is even a legal order in place or any legal filing.
 
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