GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #12

[TJtennispro]

I appreciate the link. I’m not speculating about the location I’ve been told by people on the lake the actual day the body was recovered. Sadly I’m one of a few people that posts about this that visits the lake semi regularly. Unfortunately that just means a few times a year.

I can’t wait for May. I’ll havd a Go Pro on my head and someone will tell me I’m on the wrong lake based on a picture. Now that would be something.

All the back and forth about where Shirley's body was found . . . I found these details in older news articles:
near Wallace Dam in Lake Oconee
near the Long Shoals boat ramp on the Greene County Line
hung up in the tree line
in 46 feet of water
in a wide bend above the Wallace Dam
some five miles from her home

Evidence elusive, but theories narrow in Eatonton murder investigation
Updated May 17, 2014
But the discovery of Shirley Dermond’s body Friday near Wallace Dam in Lake Oconee — 11 days after her 88-year-old husband’s decapitated body was found in the garage of the couple’s home inside Reynolds Plantation — has brought some clarity to investigators desperate for leads.

“Now we know whoever did this came by boat,” Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution Saturday.

Shirley Dermond’s body was discovered Friday by two fishermen near the Long Shoals boat ramp on the Greene County Line. The 87-year-old mother of three and grandmother of nine was hung up in the tree line, though it seems apparent she wasn’t meant to be found, unlike her husband.

New details as mystery reigns in year-old Dermond lake murders
UPDATED MAY 03, 2015 02:17 PM
Sills said Shirley Dermond was struck more than once and was dead when she was dropped in the lake. Her body was found floating by fishermen on May 16.

Weighed down by a pair of 30-pound concrete blocks, her corpse bloated and surfaced facedown in 46 feet of water. By boat, the spot lies some five miles from her home, in a wide bend above the Wallace Dam.

“I still think they came by car, but there is no question whatsoever that Mrs. Dermond’s body was, in my opinion, disposed of by boat,” Sills said. “They could have come by boat.”

 

[Valiant]

In WS podcast, I think it was #1. The 911 call is played of the fisherman who discovered SD body says, not verbatim... We were going out fishing leaving Long Shoals ramp heading toward the Dam and saw what looks like a body near Rock Island, off to the left, caught up in a tree.....So is rock island that peninsula that jets out with the large boulders I see in pictures that people are jumping off of into the water??? Or is Rock Island some local name for one of those tiny little islands seen on maps of Lake Oconee not far from Dam?? Anyone locally know what "Rock Island" is?

There is a Rock Island Point subdivision (non-gated I think) and Rock Island Drive in the general area.

 

[FinePrint]

There is a Rock Island Point subdivision (non-gated I think) and Rock Island Drive in the general area.

Yes, that I did see as well but do you think that is what the fisherman is referring to in his description of the area "rock island". Confusing, that is why I ask...

 

[kirkassoc]

Makes sense

But after they realized they had to behead him due to DNA in his mouth from biting the perp or from a bullet lodging in the skull (which could have easily pointed investigators in the direction of someone close to the family if they owned that kind of gun...arent there paper trails for gun purchases? better safe than sorry? ) but then they couldnt haul him off too with all that blood everywhere,

But the best thing would have been to haul them both off, then no one has a clue what happened to them

Or why not just leave them both, even if extortion, once one of them is killed, the game is over I suppose......

They ran the risk of leaving DNA evidence even further when they started the gruesome task, I dont know how they got out of there without leaving bloody shoe prints somewhere.........but guessing they went back through the kitchen to screen porch when they left, where the friends entered and the garage closes from inside

BBM. Is it possible they took one of the garage door openers from one of the vehicles and left via of the garage, closing it as they left? SS said there were a couple of things they were not releasing to the public. Of course, I would imagine if they did take the garage door opener, it's somewhere in the lake. Not likely, IMO, but none of this crime makes any kind of sense.

 

[FinePrint]

BBM. Is it possible they took one of the garage door openers from one of the vehicles and left via of the garage, closing it as they left? SS said there were a couple of things they were not releasing to the public. Of course, I would imagine if they did take the garage door opener, it's somewhere in the lake. Not likely, IMO, but none of this crime makes any kind of sense.

Oh, that is an excellent thought/point!!

 

[MJPeony]

What have been the working theories on why SD and RD bodies were separated? (I've only been following this for a couple of months).

The bodies being found in separate locations is very interesting to me. And I think quite significant to figuring out who did this.

Not only 'why were SD and RD separated', but 'why was RD left in the house when he could have been dumped into the water just like SD'?

The only reasons I can think of for separation is that SD was either kept alive for a while/days at a different location on purpose, or that SD had some major incriminating clues on her body which needed to be erased, hence the disposal by water.

Still doesn't answer why RD was left in the house to be found. Why not put him in the water as well. Makes no sense to me as to why he was obviously left for discovery.


JMO.

(eta clarify bodies separated, not that they were separated or divorced!)

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

BBM. Is it possible they took one of the garage door openers from one of the vehicles and left via of the garage, closing it as they left? SS said there were a couple of things they were not releasing to the public. Of course, I would imagine if they did take the garage door opener, it's somewhere in the lake. Not likely, IMO, but none of this crime makes any kind of sense.

Your right they could have, although nothing was missing........BUT, what did they miss? Did anyone notice or LOOK for the openers? We jsut dont know,

Also came on here real quick to say there there WAS NO SOOT OR GUN SHOT RESIDUE found on Russell Dermond according to the AUTOPSY CORONER
REPORT.........

Forgive me if I stated it was, recently, but re reading some things and SS had stated there was a very small amt early on or it was in the podcast by PH

ALSO gray hairs were found in BOTH RD hands

 

[Valiant]

BBM. Is it possible they took one of the garage door openers from one of the vehicles and left via of the garage, closing it as they left? SS said there were a couple of things they were not releasing to the public. Of course, I would imagine if they did take the garage door opener, it's somewhere in the lake. Not likely, IMO, but none of this crime makes any kind of sense.

There may not have been garage door openers in their vehicles. Both could have had the integrated Homelink openers, if they programmed and used them.

But without an opener, it's very, very hard to exit out the garage door while it is closing.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

There may not have been garage door openers in their vehicles. Both could have had the integrated Homelink openers, if they programmed and used them.

But without an opener, it's very, very hard to exit out the garage door while it is closing.

openers though it would have worked. I guess we odnt know how old their system was, they owned the home since what? 99 03? BUilt after 99 but may have upgraded later on.

Easiest thing would have been for a bloody person to go out the garage while someone else exited the house and screen porch how they likely entered

I cant believe there was NO BLOODY prints ANYWHERE....not even a toe?

Well maybe there was, HAD TO BE, and since SS is withholding, allegedly, then maybe that is something kept from public

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

There may not have been garage door openers in their vehicles. Both could have had the integrated Homelink openers, if they programmed and used them.

But without an opener, it's very, very hard to exit out the garage door while it is closing.

I step over the laser light, which is the safety device to prevent a garage door from shutting on objects, every day to exit my garage while the door is closing. It's not difficult.

 

[Valiant]

I step over the laser light, which is the safety device to prevent a garage door from shutting on objects, every day to exit my garage while the door is closing. It's not difficult.

it's hard for me, I'm tall, the bean is set high on my current garage, and the garage door isn't that high so there's not much room for error.

 

[Valiant]

Yes, that I did see as well but do you think that is what the fisherman is referring to in his description of the area "rock island". Confusing, that is why I ask...

I think you'd have to ask them if they meant the road, the subdivision, or some other landmark.
My assumption would be they meant the subdivision since it would be the largest thing with that name.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

````````

Your right they could have, although nothing was missing........BUT, what did they miss? Did anyone notice or LOOK for the openers? We jsut dont know,

Also came on here real quick to say there there WAS NO SOOT OR GUN SHOT RESIDUE found on Russell Dermond according to the AUTOPSY CORONER
REPORT.........

Forgive me if I stated it was, recently, but re reading some things and SS had stated there was a very small amt early on or it was in the podcast by PH

ALSO gray hairs were found in BOTH RD hands

If he was shot through a pillow or blanket, there might not be gun shot residue on his body.

 

[deugirtni]

.... ALSO gray hairs were found in BOTH RD hands

RSBM

The hair in RD's hands was said to be (by SS) SD's hair, even though:

RD's autopsy report says:
"What appeared to be gray hairs were collected from both of his hands and his shirt."

SD's autopsy report says:
"The majority of the scalp hair has slipped off due to decompositional change. The remaining hair appears light brown-blonde and up to approximately 4 inches."

 

[deugirtni]

.... Also came on here real quick to say there there WAS NO SOOT OR GUN SHOT RESIDUE found on Russell Dermond according to the AUTOPSY CORONER
REPORT.........

Forgive me if I stated it was, recently, but re reading some things and SS had stated there was a very small amt early on or it was in the podcast by PH....

RSBM

Wouldn't the clothing have been sent instead to the forensic testing lab though, as opposed to being examined and reported on by the ME, after he removed her clothing? Would he have necessarily made mention of GSR on RD's shirt, when he knew that it would be tested conclusively one way or another, by the lab?

 

[deugirtni]

BBM. Is it possible they took one of the garage door openers from one of the vehicles and left via of the garage, closing it as they left? SS said there were a couple of things they were not releasing to the public. Of course, I would imagine if they did take the garage door opener, it's somewhere in the lake. Not likely, IMO, but none of this crime makes any kind of sense.

From this long list of features/amenities, there is no mention of an auto garage door opener.. doesn't mean that one did not exist, but one might presume it would be listed if one did in fact exist? They listed such basic things as 'dishwasher', garbage disposal', and 'ceiling fan', so I would personally expect garage door opener to appear on the list too. jmo.

Septic, C - Electric,
Hardwood,
2 Car Garage,
Golf, Mixed, Well, Golf Course, None,
Stucco,
Asphalt Shingle Roof,
Forced Air,
Country Club,
Aquatic Activities,
Boating,
Cul-de-sac,
Outdoor Activities,
Gardens,
Gated,
Dock,
2 Fireplaces,
Granite Countertops,
Brick,
11-20 Years Old,
Security System,
Lakefront,
Waterfront,
Resort,
Clubhouse,
2 - 1 Acre,
C,
Underground Lawn Sprinkler,
Wall to Wall Carpet,
Dishwasher,
Microwave,
Refrigerator,
Guard Gated,
Attached Garage,
Lake,
Tub and Shower,
Walk-in Closet,
Area Hiking,
Second Home,
Garbage Disposal,
Community Living,
Ceiling Fan(s),
Vaulted Ceilings,
Beam -Ceilings,
Biking,
Access Type - Road,
Tennis,
Area Pool,
Area Tennis,
Eat-in Kitchen,
Billiards Room,
Enclosed Porch,
C,
Lanai,
Association Fee,
Lake on Lot,
Lake & Stream,
Ceramic,
Cathedral Ceilings,
Stereo System,
Area Hunting,
Fishing,
Lake,
Wet Bar,
Screened Porch,
Private Road,
Walk-out,
Wooded,
Multi-Zone Heat,
PropertySubType: Single Family Detached,
PropertyType: Residential,
QC Approved Listing
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/147-Carolyn-Dr-Eatonton-GA-31024/110310631_zpid/

On the other hand, it IS listed on this other online listing:
"Parking Attached, Auto Garage Door"
147 Carolyn Dr, Eatonton, GA 31024 MLS# 07369803 - Movoto.com

One thing is for sure.. I sure as hay would NOT be listing: "Security, Neighborhood Association, Gated Community" as a feature when listing this particular home!!

 

[FinePrint]

There has been a lot of going back and fourth about the location SD body was found. This may be long winded. I will try to keep it as short as possible. Here I am laying out why I have been asking for any information available, from anyone, not just one person as it is assumed, on this thread.

I believe that one of the biggest questions about this case is, did the killer(s) arrive or depart by boat. I think that you cannot move forward with this case until that question is answered.

I’ve heard over and over again that the killer had to have a boat to dump SD body in the water…So is that a fact or not. There is contradicting information put out there.

In my professional day job, I compare and contrast information all day long to conclude what is fact. I try to have at least 2 sources to verify all information. <modsnip snarky> I do not interrupt information through emotion but rather fact. Also, I have a long background in boating, jet skies and scuba diving.

1- If we can come to the conclusion that SD body could have only been dumped by boat than that rules out persons who do not have access to a boat

2- If we rule that SD body could have been dumped in the lake without the use of a boat, well that really opens up the pool of persons who could have committed this crime.

A member on this thread provided a map showing placement of where local people that were on Lake Oconee the day say SD body was discovered. It is an arrow shaped peninsula on the east side about ¾ north of the Dam. WS member also commented that this placement also coincides with photos released by MSM of responding/emergency vehicles parked in that area. However, I have actually identified the MSM photos of responding vehicles just north of the arrow shaped peninsula to the small peninsula just north of it with the small dock.

I asked the WS member to clarify if the X marked on his map was the exact location near the shore and the reply was yes within a few feet give or take.... <modsnip Alert on post>. I have spent endless hours with Topo Maps and a depth map provided by another WS member of Lake Oconee investigating this exact spot.

If this location is the correct, it would not take a rocket scientist to figure out if responding/emergency vehicles were able to pull up to the area where SD body was discovered, what would stop me or anyone else from driving up into that area and dumping her body from shore? Without a boat?

-Even in 6 feet of water her body would have stayed submerged with the 60 pounds of blocks until gases developed and increased the bodies buoyancy, negating the cement blocks.

-Her body would not have been found until the point the gases accumulated unless SS scoured ever foot of Lake Oconee’s shoreline or a fisherman would have snagged into her body while fishing.

On the other hand, SS has said continuously that SD body was found in 47 feet of water and I’ve also heard him say 60 feet of water caught up in a tree top that is under water (There is standing timber in Lake Oconee per maps). He also said that the experts he consulted said her body could not have moved more than 100 yards from where she was dumped. If this scenario is true:

-Her body could have not been found close to shore because in the lake, from the Dam north for about 2 miles, the distance from the channel (deep water) to the east shore is approximately 800 to 900 feet. That exceeds 100 yards or 300 feet greatly.

My questions about the location where SD body was discovered are not to annoy anyone but to pursue facts to conclude if the killer(s) actually needed a boat to pull off this crime or not. Once this question can be answered with some sense of certainty then it is easier to move on to other aspects of this case. JMO and all of that!!

 

[TJtennispro]

I can find out what Rock Island is in a map with one text/phone call. I’ll do that for the Dermonds. <modsnip unnecessary comments>

Yes, that I did see as well but do you think that is what the fisherman is referring to in his description of the area "rock island". Confusing, that is why I ask...

 

[FinePrint]

I can find out what Rock Island is in a map with one text/phone call. I’ll do that for the Dermonds. I believe that most people in the thread know I have nothing but good intentions. I’ve learned in life you can’t please everyone.

Never asked you to please me. Can you point out where I have ever been anything but respectful and polite? If you feel I asked inappropriate questions that bother you then you have the option of just ignoring the question. I don't think I was asking something so horrific by asking for clarification so I would correctly interrupt what you were describing.

 

[wildebeest]

What have been the working theories on why SD and RD bodies were separated? (I've only been following this for a couple of months).

The bodies being found in separate locations is very interesting to me. And I think quite significant to figuring out who did this.

Not only 'why were SD and RD separated', but 'why was RD left in the house when he could have been dumped into the water just like SD'?

The only reasons I can think of for separation is that SD was either kept alive for a while/days at a different location on purpose, or that SD had some major incriminating clues on her body which needed to be erased, hence the disposal by water.

Still doesn't answer why RD was left in the house to be found. Why not put him in the water as well. Makes no sense to me as to why he was obviously left for discovery.


JMO.

(eta clarify bodies separated, not that they were separated or divorced!)

I’m glad you brought this up. Why not leave Mrs. D in the garage, as well? Think of the chance they took, loading her into a boat and going out on the lake. Many things could have gone wrong, or people could have seen them. Another puzzling thought...