Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #13 *ARREST*

[CoverMeCagney]

Just in case people were wondering why they used the word homicide, I Wiki'd to see what the difference is in English law.

HOMICIDE:
English law contains homicide offences – those acts involving the death of another person. The death must be causally linked to the actions of the defendant. There are two general types of homicide, murder and manslaughter.

MURDER:
Murder is an offence under the common law of England and Wales. It is considered the most serious form of homicide, in which one person kills another with the intention to cause either death or serious injury unlawfully.

VOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER:
If the intention to murder is present but there are certain types of mitigating factors – loss of control, diminished responsibility, or pursuance of a suicide pact – then this is voluntary manslaughter.

INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER:
Involves the causing of the death of another person without intent to kill or intention to commit grievous bodily harm. It may be "constructive" or "unlawful act" manslaughter, or caused by gross negligence, where the defendant has broken a duty of care over the victim, where that breach has led to the death.

 

[Pisces42]

I thought journalists were supposed to be good at English? The comprehension skills shown would seem to disprove that. Nowhere does the statement remotely suggest that Libby was killed before entering the water. Det Supt Smalley basically said it was a missing persons enquiry but now they have located Libby, they are investigating what happened to her/how she came to be where she was found and that this might POTENTIALLY turn into a murder investigation.

This sensationalist/need to provide sound bites that ignore or twist all nuance really grinds my gears!!!

Truly unbelievable, isn't it! I've written a complaint to Metro, advising them to rethink their choice of words. You're spot on about the inaccurate reporting - I was so outraged by the headline that I didn't manage to read the full story. Shoddy af.

 

[JosieJo]

That's probably lazy reporting to be fair.

Was just think that myself after posting

I'm trying not to read too much into the police statement itself ..could it only be a case of "potential homicide" rather than abduction because of finding her body?

 

[JosieJo]

Just in case people were wondering why they used the word homicide, I Wiki'd to see what the difference is in English law.

HOMICIDE:
English law contains homicide offences – those acts involving the death of another person. The death must be causally linked to the actions of the defendant. There are two general types of homicide, murder and manslaughter.

MURDER:
Murder is an offence under the common law of England and Wales. It is considered the most serious form of homicide, in which one person kills another with the intention to cause either death or serious injury unlawfully.

VOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER:
If the intention to murder is present but there are certain types of mitigating factors – loss of control, diminished responsibility, or pursuance of a suicide pact – then this is voluntary manslaughter.

INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER:
Involves the causing of the death of another person without intent to kill or intention to commit grievous bodily harm. It may be "constructive" or "unlawful act" manslaughter, or caused by gross negligence, where the defendant has broken a duty of care over the victim, where that breach has led to the death.

Thanks was wondering why homicide

 

[JosieJo]

So if they are using Homicide at the min presumably no obvious signs of Murder during the PM yet

 

[ms_x_to_the_m]

Link for people just joining;

Formal identification released of body recovered from Humber | Humberside Police

I'm sad that she's been found dead.
I really was hoping she was just somewhere
I am happy the family has her back.

RIP Libby

 

[lilmissd33]

Homicide is an umbrella term that includes murder, so they are just covering all their bases, keeping everything close to their chests

 

[jessie]

deleted

 

[Armchair_Defective]

Does anyone know how they will question P.R. now? Is it like in the films and TV where they give them details of the body being found and then see if they crack. Or is that completely unrealistic? I think you'd have to be a very unusual type of person to keep your cool.

 

[jessie]

IMO, I can't see why it would stop the trial once it has been committed to the Crown court. I would think it would be prejudicial to PR's trial to do so. I could be wrong, but I can't see any satisfactory grounds for withdrawing prosecution of that case now. **All an educated guess**

IF - and of course only IF - PR was charged with a more serious crime (murder possibly?) would it not be tangible to just develop the more subsequent crime and add these current charges to that?

 

[Joolz1975]

Does anyone know how they will question P.R. now? Is it like in the films and TV where they give them details of the body being found and then see if they crack. Or is that completely unrealistic? I think you'd have to be a very unusual type of person to keep your cool.

I'm not sure they will question him anytime soon.

If they couldn't make an abduction charge stick how are they going to make a murder charge stick??

Unless they have more evidence that ties him to Libbys death. I mean they obviously have some strong evidence to keep him under investigation but will it be enough?

Especially if her cause of death turns out to be inconclusive.

I don't feel like they will waste another 96 hours on a possible no comment interview unless they can 100% prove he was responsible.

 

[Plod]

This might be a stupid question - sorry if it is, but could P be called to the coroners inquest as a witness if he is indeed confirmed as being in CCTV along with Libby or admitting to an encounter that night?

No that’s not what the coroner’s court is for - it’s to establish who the dead person is and how he/she died ie murder, suicide etc. It doesn’t go into the case in any depth. Mainly for the release of death certificate so a funeral take place and if the dead person has any property/money, the relatives can start dealing with that.

The Crown court trial is for the actual trial of the suspect.

 

[Plod]

Just in case people were wondering why they used the word homicide, I Wiki'd to see what the difference is in English law.

HOMICIDE:
English law contains homicide offences – those acts involving the death of another person. The death must be causally linked to the actions of the defendant. There are two general types of homicide, murder and manslaughter.

MURDER:
Murder is an offence under the common law of England and Wales. It is considered the most serious form of homicide, in which one person kills another with the intention to cause either death or serious injury unlawfully.

VOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER:
If the intention to murder is present but there are certain types of mitigating factors – loss of control, diminished responsibility, or pursuance of a suicide pact – then this is voluntary manslaughter.

INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER:
Involves the causing of the death of another person without intent to kill or intention to commit grievous bodily harm. It may be "constructive" or "unlawful act" manslaughter, or caused by gross negligence, where the defendant has broken a duty of care over the victim, where that breach has led to the death.

I was going to raise this too. They don’t come outright and say murder? Homicide strikes me as an American term.

 

[Cherwell]

If they couldn't make an abduction charge stick how are they going to make a murder charge stick?

But as he's in custody anyway and not going anywhere soon, how hard did they try with the abduction charge?
Could be that they do have more, and were just biding their time until Libby was found.

 

[Newthoughts]

I’ve always thought that the person getting into the passenger side is either yanked back towards someone, before getting in, or it has the illusion of someone turning back quickly (as you would if you were giving someone a kiss for example).

It’s like their body and legs are pulled away from getting in, a second or two passes and then they step in the car.

To me it doesn’t appear that they’re forced in

I can't bring myself to watch that part of the footage but you don't need to force somebody for it to be abduction. Deception also counts. So if he offered her a lift / said he was a taxi or any other deception it is abduction.

 

[swedeheart]

but sexual burglary has a completely different motive than financially motivated burglary. I doubt you need 3 people to steal a few objects and a bit of cash from a house either.

I don't see him having an accomplice or 'friends' with a similar interest, how would you start that convo? 'hi I'm P and I fantasize about women in my street and steal their underwear?' For this and other reasons ( such as police not suspecting anyone else and him never being see with anyone else) I really think the accomplice theory has no legs.
The offending history is all there, watching, stalking, masturbating in full view of people and then entering people's homes.

but you can start that kind of conversation on the internet. then meet up with those kinds of people to further your "like interests." (unfortunately).

 

[CoverMeCagney]

What's happening with him on Monday, is he up on the 12 charges? Might he get released?

I'm wondering if, as long as he's in custody, there is no point re-arresting him and starting the 96 hours ticking if they're still waiting for evidence, they might as well hold off for as long as possible knowing he can't go awol. Which might mean he gets re-arrested after the next court hearing, especially if he gets released on time served or not guilty.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I was going to raise this too. They don’t come outright and say murder? Homicide strikes me as an American term.

That's what I thought initially, we don't hear it that often in the UK! But it's essentially an umbrella term for various degrees of murder and manslaughter so they're hedging their bets / covering their arses. See my post from about an hour or two ago, gives a rundown on the terms.

 

[Armchair_Defective]

but you can start that kind of conversation on the internet. then meet up with those kinds of people to further your "like interests." (unfortunately).

yes possible but I don't think very likely to be honest. How many sexual predators work in teams? Maybe the ones that groom victims over time but not fetish burglars and rapists, if that is what we're dealing with.

 

[Plod]

That's what I thought initially, we don't hear it that often in the UK! But it's essentially an umbrella term for various degrees of murder and manslaughter so they're hedging their bets / covering their arses. See my post from about an hour or two ago, gives a rundown on the terms.

Saw it excellent thank you.