Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #13 *ARREST*

[Sammie1970]

We don't don't know what they have. We do know they are in a position to take more time because he's safely locked on remand for unrelated crimes. Why would they rush into charges and trials if they knew they had time to delve more deeply into the Libby case?

So I don't agree they have no proof.

I completely agree, they could even have proof to charge him now but why do that when he is already locked up for the time being when they can get a cast iron verdict with more.

 

[Cherwell]

I'm going to play devil's advocate on the "he must have known where Wellesley Avenue is" argument.
I don't agree that people necessarily know exactly where a given residential street is, even if they've been there before. I certainly didn't, when I lived in a city. The main through roads, yes, but not the warrens of roads, closes, crescents etc in the hinterland. I didn't even know all the streets behind my home (which was on a main road) except the ones that led to a particular pub, and even then I might not remember every street name. I think it would be quite natural to look at something like Google maps to check, and I prefer to do that rather than rely on someone directing me.

 

[Kolumbo]

I suspect she went to the park consensually, expecting to be able to take a pee. Who knows where they parked, I suspect not in the car park itself if it was locked, so maybe just outside the gates or further down the street. At this point there was no reason for her to suspect any foul play, otherwise there'd have been a commotion closer to the residential area and someone would likely have been alerted and a visible sighting noted from one of the houses.

She probably wondered so far into the park herself, or maybe with his assistance. Perhaps, at a stretch, he had effected to wait for her on the bench that CSI people went to early in the investigation.

And at some point, either during or after she relieved herself, he struck.

Whether he went full on frenzied rapist or broke out into his normal ritual acts, she knew she was in trouble and freaked out. She screamed and tried to flee so he silenced her as quickly as he could. Maybe he beat her unconscious/dead, or more likely strangled her.

He knew the body would be quickly discovered with probable DNA if left out in the open. He couldn't risk taking the body back to his car to dump it elsewhere for the same reason, plus the risk of being sighted out in the open. So instead he dragged and plopped her into the river and hoped the currents would work their magic, or at least make it look like a drowning, and potentially wash away surface traces of his DNA, assuming he hadn't had his way with her.

I think it was probably as simple as that.

 

[Sammie1970]

Just going to ask but I haven’t been lol. If you are called up on jury duty and read this thread would you have to tell them and I guess it would exclude you?

 

[Smccat]

I do agree with what you say too but I’m just keeping the focus on him in particular. I could maybe understand it if it wasnt on his charge sheet as a location and not in what would seem to be his area of interest etc. Also if he was on he other side of town but it was practically around the corner.
If he chose to masturbate on Wellesley it must have been impulsive and not planned if he could not recall where it was

I'm going to play devil's advocate on the "he must have known where Wellesley Avenue is" argument.
I don't agree that people necessarily know exactly where a given residential street is, even if they've been there before. I certainly didn't, when I lived in a city. The main through roads, yes, but not the warrens of roads, closes, crescents etc in the hinterland. I didn't even know all the streets behind my home (which was on a main road) except the ones that led to a particular pub, and even then I might not remember every street name. I think it would be quite natural to look at something like Google maps to check, and I prefer to do that rather than rely on someone directing me.

what

 

[Vermont24]

I have spent the majority of my adult life in and around the University of Hull, first as a student and later an employee. By far my favourite aspect of my last role there was meeting students to discuss their courses, and how they were working towards their aspirations for the future. Their optimism was a source of strength and energy for me.

My late-20s were blighted by severe depression. I lost my job and my home, but not once did I cry for myself. Not even when I was at my very lowest. I didn't cry for years - not until Libby had been missing for almost 2 weeks and a vigil was held for her at a local church.

I had the opportunity to bounce back and find my life again. Libby never will, and that is unspeakably sad. In her moving words, Libby's friend Amelia reassured those that didn't know Libby personally of their right to cry for her. We can all mourn her. I cry for the obvious kindness in her heart, the relationships she had with others and the warmth she brought to their lives, and her boundless potential never to be realised. I cry for those she has left behind, who must now face life without the benefit of her presence.

Some of my friends cannot understand why I have shown such an interest in these events if it upsets me. I can't reconcile that attitude, and am reminded of a quote from one of my favourite sociologists:

A society which considers itself to be just, has ceased to be so

We cannot afford the luxury of being wilfully myopic. We shouldn't look away just because something is bad or scares us. This is no different. Injustice needs to be looked square in the eye. That night seems to have been an awful confluence of circumstances. Whilst the blame falls nowhere but on those who were ultimately responsible, there were so many junctures where things could have been done differently.​

We simply have to be more aware of one another, and treat each other with care and a considered compassion.

 

[lilmissd33]

I completely agree, they could even have proof to charge him now but why do that when he already locked up for the time being when they can get a cast iron verdict with more.

I have a suspicion it's also a tactical move to unsettle his over confidence if he is second guessing day in day out what they have or haven't did they find this will they etc etc it becomes harder to fit your story around every possibility and until he is charged he is not any more entitled to see what they have than we are, and his ego and needs to control the situation will undo him, or I'd guess the police believe the person who is capable of the crime obviously won't make up tales .... and he is there of his own free will in a way he chose to refuse bail application so why would an innocent man chose to stay he would want to get out away from criminals and the looks he must get and fight to show his innocence. So LE will not look a gift horse in the mouth and carry on meticulously building a case with the knowledge he can't hurt anyone else so urgency will help the rush and chances of mistakes.

 

[lilmissd33]

Just going to ask but I haven’t been lol. If you are called up on jury duty and read this thread would you have to tell them and I guess it would exclude you?

Yes knowledge of the circumstances of the case

 

[Legally Bland]

Just going to ask but I haven’t been lol. If you are called up on jury duty and read this thread would you have to tell them and I guess it would exclude you?

I'm not positive, but from what I remember we were just read the defendant and witness list and asked if we knew any of them. They were pretty low profile cases though, so it could be different with a case with lots of media coverage.

 

[lilmissd33]

That night seems to have been an awful confluence of circumstances. Whilst the blame falls nowhere but on those who were ultimately responsible, there were so many junctures where things could have been done differently.​

We simply have to be more aware of one another, and treat each other with care and a considered compassion.

There should only be one person who when questions choices they made is left with the guilty conscious ... we need to accept the injustices have happened and justify the innocent and exclude the guilty from society for the greater good, learn from each other our differences and similarities.our belief systems are ours to keep but it must not infringe another's rights to live a happy life in any way, there is always going to be good bad happy sad light and darkness and whilst we can't change this we accept darkness because it doesn't stop the light it shows it's shine. I have to believe that justice will be done more so than ever in cases like this, and I believe her life has made a difference, and that's a hell of an achievement it is awful but not every victim leaves such a legacy her spirit made the difference not the guilty man's actions. Shine bright as always Libby

 

[Cherwell]

I do agree with what you say too but I’m just keeping the focus on him in particular. I could maybe understand it if it wasnt on his charge sheet as a location and not in what would seem to be his area of interest etc. Also if he was on he other side of town but it was practically around the corner.
If he chose to masturbate on Wellesley it must have been impulsive and not planned if he could not recall where it was

No, you've missed one of the points I made which was that one might not pay attention to the name of a street. Like my example of walking to the pub - I knew the route but didn't consciously note the names of the streets en route.

All I'm saying is that I don't think putting an address into satnav or phone (if he did) is an odd thing to do.

 

[Vermont24]

If if's and buts where wine and nuts we would all have a very merry Christmas....

Sorry, but I'm not happy with the flippancy of that. Intended or not.

 

[Mollie123]

I have spent the majority of my adult life in and around the University of Hull, first as a student and later an employee. By far my favourite aspect of my last role there was meeting students to discuss their courses, and how they were working towards their aspirations for the future. Their optimism was a source of strength and energy for me.

My late-20s were blighted by severe depression. I lost my job and my home, but not once did I cry for myself. Not even when I was at my very lowest. I didn't cry for years - not until Libby had been missing for almost 2 weeks and a vigil was held for her at a local church.

I had the opportunity to bounce back and find my life again. Libby never will, and that is unspeakably sad. In her moving words, Libby's friend Amelia reassured those that didn't know Libby personally of their right to cry for her. We can all mourn her. I cry for the obvious kindness in her heart, the relationships she had with others and the warmth she brought to their lives, and her boundless potential never to be realised. I cry for those she has left behind, who must now face life without the benefit of her presence.

Some of my friends cannot understand why I have shown such an interest in these events if it upsets me. I can't reconcile that attitude, and am reminded of a quote from one of my favourite sociologists:

A society which considers itself to be just, has ceased to be so
​

We cannot afford the luxury of being wilfully myopic. We shouldn't look away just because something is bad or scares us. This is no different. Injustice needs to be looked square in the eye. That night seems to have been an awful confluence of circumstances. Whilst the blame falls nowhere but on those who were ultimately responsible, there were so many junctures where things could have been done differently.​

We simply have to be more aware of one another, and treat each other with care and a considered compassion.

Again, this broke me. I can empathise with a lot of what you have shared. Thank you for sharing.
I will carry this beautiful young lady in my heart for the rest of my life.
Again, the only blame lies with the one responsible for taking her away from her loved ones.
I cannot move through my days or nights at the moment without this overwhelming sadness and anger and loss. And that's me, unconnected, never knew her.. for her family and friends, this must be unbearable.
We have to hope beyond hope she gets justice.
Thank you again Vermont.xx

 

[Smccat]

No, you've missed one of the points I made which was that one might not pay attention to the name of a street. Like my example of walking to the pub - I knew the route but didn't consciously note the names of the streets en route.

I get you

 

[Plod]

How about we give the police the respect they deserve and not get into this 'there's no proof' conversation?

And I guess they are maybe waiting for full results of post mortem including any toxicology or follow up tests which can take a few days to obtain. Plus there may be other reasons why they haven’t responded yet.

Vermont, myself and many others keep saying we don’t know what evidence the police have - we’ve only seen a small segment of cctv evidence.

 

[TheCasual]

Will PR been notified by the discovery of Libby's body?

Or would he have seen things in the media?

 

[Plod]

Will PR been notified by the discovery of Libby's body?

Or would he have seen things in the media?

Media I guess. And I’m sure some of his fellow Inmates might just tell him too...

 

[Cherwell]

Vermont, myself and many others keep saying we don’t know what evidence the police have - we’ve only seen a small segment of cctv evidence.

We've seen nothing official at all as far as I can remember, apart from the CCTV of the four potential witnesses. Plus the odd snippet thrown our way like mentioning that the taxi driver and Greybeard had been traced and are not suspects.
All we have to go on is inferences drawn from observing the visible police searches, and a (very) few media interviews with witnesses, eg the lads who saw her taxi arrive at the house.

 

[lilmissd33]

Sorry, but I'm not happy with the flippancy of that. Intended or not.

Sorry I meant it in reference to him not any victim if we use ifs and buts we see the good or the bad in the world as such, he will get his share of the justice never let doubts stop the it's and buts and accept the gift of memories and a chance to enjot a sunrise. Nwe can't change choices made or I'm sure we all would in such circumstances especially, all we can do is know it was with a good heart and don't take any guilt that all belongs to him on board, never question your belief in yourself, and I've changed it again I'm sorry, thanks for telling me.

 

[Oulton]

I suspect she went to the park consensually, expecting to be able to take a pee. Who knows where they parked, I suspect not in the car park itself if it was locked, so maybe just outside the gates or further down the street. At this point there was no reason for her to suspect any foul play, otherwise there'd have been a commotion closer to the residential area and someone would likely have been alerted and a visible sighting noted from one of the houses.

She probably wondered so far into the park herself, or maybe with his assistance. Perhaps, at a stretch, he had effected to wait for her on the bench that CSI people went to early in the investigation.

And at some point, either during or after she relieved herself, he struck.

Whether he went full on frenzied rapist or broke out into his normal ritual acts, she knew she was in trouble and freaked out. She screamed and tried to flee so he silenced her as quickly as he could. Maybe he beat her unconscious/dead, or more likely strangled her.

He knew the body would be quickly discovered with probable DNA if left out in the open. He couldn't risk taking the body back to his car to dump it elsewhere for the same reason, plus the risk of being sighted out in the open. So instead he dragged and plopped her into the river and hoped the currents would work their magic, or at least make it look like a drowning, and potentially wash away surface traces of his DNA, assuming he hadn't had his way with her.

I think it was probably as simple as that.

She could have used his toilet though, or a pub toilet. Why the park? There are more options than that very risky one.

 

[Plod]

We've seen nothing official at all as far as I can remember, apart from the CCTV of the four potential witnesses. Plus the odd snippet thrown our way like mentioning that the taxi driver and Greybeard had been traced and are not suspects.
All we have to go on is inferences drawn from observing the visible police searches, and a (very) few media interviews with witnesses, eg the lads who saw her taxi arrive at the house.

Yes I was referring to the cctv of four people. All else can only be guessed from what we’ve seen.