Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #11

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JayFriend said:
So what was the motive for the murders? I still feel that it's to do with the pharma business. Barry was always in litigation over patents. Today the exploitation of cannabis and patenting its medical applications is a big deal, worth billions. I'm willing to bet Barry had something in the works. Here is an interesting article.

Big Pharma Patents Cannabis Cancer Treatment
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Thats a good thought, but as far as I can tell Barry had given up control of the day to day operations of the company, I don't think he'd have anything to do with ongoing litigation would he?
 
rickcross said:
Thats a good thought, but as far as I can tell Barry had given up control of the day to day operations of the company, I don't think he'd have anything to do with ongoing litigation would he?
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Barry was no longer CEO, but Apotex was and is a private company. I don’t doubt that he was still, in every sense, the controlling mind.

The Sherman family was likely the beneficial owners of 80 per cent of the company, perhaps much more. It represented the majority if Barry and Honey Sherman’s wealth. Barry was by all accounts a workaholic; he was returning to the office after the meeting with the architect.

Empire builders like Sherman only turn over control when they are bought out. I would suspect the CEO did not have the same powers as he would in a public company, and very much felt Barry’s presence on a regular basis.
 
MistyWaters said:
It’s never wise to close your mind to what you do not know. Someone going back and forth as was described leads to the impression of someone who’s impatiently waiting for another person to exit the house. Can you confirm the car did not return later, after 10:16am?

29 minutes inside Barry and Honey Sherman’s home: Who was the visitor?
“At 9:45 a.m., the man walks back to his car. This time he stays in his car for about 21 minutes, and walks back to the house and enters through the front door at 10:06 a.m. He remains in the house for nine minutes, then emerges and gets into his car and drives slowly west towards Bayview Ave. at 10:16 a.m.”
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I admit I'm not up to date on this case. When it first happened, I thought it may be similar to the Russell and Shirley Dermond case. Then it came out to be a murder suicide and I moved on to another case. Fast forward to today and I came across a similar article to the one you posted and came back to look. I found it has since been changed into a double homicide and it looks like there has been no suspect arrested thus far but the man in the video is interesting.

Anyway, on your link there was another link to an article that helped me get familiar to this case from the beginning to May of 2018. It may have already been posted.

How the investigation into the deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman turned from murder-suicide to double homicide | The Star

Off Topic but I had to click through every thread to get here on #11. We used to just change the number on the link and it would jump forward to a later thread. Is there any way to do that now?
 
watcher9 said:
Off Topic but I had to click through every thread to get here on #11. We used to just change the number on the link and it would jump forward to a later thread. Is there any way to do that now?
Click to expand...
That is a very good point. I'm subscribed to this topic and get email notifications of new posts, but I don't remember getting any telling me when a moderator starts a new thread. When I want to post something other than a reply, I enter "websleuths" in my Firefox URL and it just shows me a bunch of old threads and I have to pick one, which is always closed, and then go to the end and find a link to the next one over and over again until I get to the current one.
 
FromGermany said:
Excerpt, interesting:
During the Star's interviews on Old Colony Rd. over the last two weeks, one other neighbour added an additional piece of information. That six weeks following the Shermans bodies being discovered, a Toronto Police Service detective showed up at his door to ask questions. "His business card said he was from the 'cold case squad'," the man told the Star.
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That sounds odd to me
 
MistyWaters said:
Totally off the wall wild guess - at least two people were involved and the reason the man in the car was there was to pick up the killer, who was still cleaning up inside.
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Well he should have stayed inside to help his buddy clean up...loser! Seriously though, Greenspan's investigation led him to determine that more than one person was involved, maybe more than two. Susan Gomes implied the same by saying they had surveillance video of "peoples" in the area. It is logical to think that it would take more than one person to overcome both victims, kill each one by ligature compression (which requires significant strength) and arrange them hanging by their necks.

When I think of who had a motive (a Big Pharma competitor, a former litigation loser, Kerry Winter, a shady investment partner, a family member, a disgruntled staff member) I remember Dr. Michael Arntfield's comments he made in the Fifth Estate documentary. "It was a very close up, intimate, domineering, rage induced manner of killing someone."

And as BS's good friend noted "To go to their house and murder them, it was personal. Someone they knew killed them".

Greenspan thinks it was done by professionals. His comment may denote an apparent lack of relevant evidence at the house. We know professionals are in and out quickly (a gun shot to the head) so it must have been commissioned by someone who despised one or both of the victims, and either that person was present to watch, or gave specific orders for the horrible method of killing them.

These rage induced murders rule out any normal people or organizations who had a motive IMO. So the question is--who hated Barry and/ or Honey to that emotional extent?
 
casesensitive said:
Well he should have stayed inside to help his buddy clean up...loser! Seriously though, Greenspan's investigation led him to determine that more than one person was involved, maybe more than two. Susan Gomes implied the same by saying they had surveillance video of "peoples" in the area. It is logical to think that it would take more than one person to overcome both victims, kill each one by ligature compression (which requires significant strength) and arrange them hanging by their necks.

When I think of who had a motive (a Big Pharma competitor, a former litigation loser, Kerry Winter, a shady investment partner, a family member, a disgruntled staff member) I remember Dr. Michael Arntfield's comments he made in the Fifth Estate documentary. "It was a very close up, intimate, domineering, rage induced manner of killing someone."

And as BS's good friend noted "To go to their house and murder them, it was personal. Someone they knew killed them".

Greenspan thinks it was done by professionals. His comment may denote an apparent lack of relevant evidence at the house. We know professionals are in and out quickly (a gun shot to the head) so it must have been commissioned by someone who despised one or both of the victims, and either that person was present to watch, or gave specific orders for the horrible method of killing them.

These rage induced murders rule out any normal people or organizations who had a motive IMO. So the question is--who hated Barry and/ or Honey to that emotional extent?
Click to expand...

The method of death may seem intimate or domineering, but that may be because in our culture strangulation and or hanging is somewhat uncommon and is perceived as being very personal.
As I have posted previously, Barry was a real estate investor in a large Toronto condo project that was being developed and funded by expat Iranians, some of whom are suspected of very serious crimes in Iran. I believe that in some countries in the Middle East, hanging is an accepted and “common” form of execution, so much so that public hangings of convicted criminals are conducted and viewed by many members of the public.
My point here is that a killer from that culture would perhaps not consider strangulation to be at all up front and personal, but rather an accepted and commonplace method of execution.
 
ldlager said:
The method of death may seem intimate or domineering, but that may be because in our culture strangulation and or hanging is somewhat uncommon and is perceived as being very personal.
As I have posted previously, Barry was a real estate investor in a large Toronto condo project that was being developed and funded by expat Iranians, some of whom are suspected of very serious crimes in Iran. I believe that in some countries in the Middle East, hanging is an accepted and “common” form of execution, so much so that public hangings of convicted criminals are conducted and viewed by many members of the public.
My point here is that a killer from that culture would perhaps not consider strangulation to be at all up front and personal, but rather an accepted and commonplace method of execution.
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Are you aware of a type of execution conducted when the victims are in a sitting position because I’ve never heard of that. That’s quite different to “hanging” to the standard definition (ie victims are standing on something that’s knocked away, body is off the ground, victim is literally left hanging by the neck).

In addition we don’t yet know if medical forensics have determined if they died by belts attached to the railing or if that was later staged after they were strangled while bound, for example while lying on the floor. If so I’m not so sure Iranians or any foreign assassins would have reason to stage a side-by-side death scene that gives the appearance of a double suicide pact. But if so and indeed it was intended for the Shermans to be hung, iirc there was a spiral staircase in the home.

My theory....I think the killer/s really did believe the Shermans deaths would never be detected to be double homicide, that the staging would outwit medical examiners and police. No investigation, no suspects.
 
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MistyWaters said:
Are you aware of a type of execution conducted when the victims are in a sitting position because I’ve never heard of that. That’s quite different to “hanging” to the standard definition (ie victims are standing on something that’s knocked away, body is off the ground, victim is literally left hanging by the neck).

In addition we don’t yet know if medical forensics have determined if they died by belts attached to the railing or if that was later staged after they were strangled while bound, for example while lying on the floor. If so I’m not so sure Iranians or any foreign assassins would have reason to stage a side-by-side death scene that gives the appearance of a double suicide pact. But if so and indeed it was intended for the Shermans to be hung, iirc there was a spiral staircase in the home.

My theory....I think the killer/s really did believe the Shermans deaths would never be detected to be double homicide, that the staging would outwit medical examiners and police. No investigation, no suspects.
Click to expand...

Yes I am aware of executions in the sitting position, in fact I posted links and pictures in earlier threads to bodies displayed in Middle East killings in exactly the same body positioning as the Sherman’s. It was a few threads ago.
AFAIK, based on what has been reported, the Sherman’s were likely strangled, then hung from the railings. This would make a m/s impossible if it was true.
 
ldlager said:
Yes I am aware of executions in the sitting position, in fact I posted links and pictures in earlier threads to bodies displayed in Middle East killings in exactly the same body positioning as the Sherman’s. It was a few threads ago.
AFAIK, based on what has been reported, the Sherman’s were likely strangled, then hung from the railings. This would make a m/s impossible if it was true.
Click to expand...

Okay sorry, I got confused by the reference to “hanging”.

And I agree it would make m/s impossible. In the way it appears (from the little we know) the bodies were staged side-by-side, so in my opinion the initial appearance is exactly that of a double suicide pact. Much like the manner Robin Williams took his life, although he attached the belt somehow to a closest door instead of a railing iirc. There’s blood associated to Honey to consider but it’s possible she unexpectedly took the opportunity to defend herself and the killer didn’t have a Plan B. JMO
 
Re post.
29 minutes inside Barry and Honey Sherman’s home: Who was the visitor? | The Star
"While Barry and Honey Sherman lay dead in the basement of their Toronto home, a lone man went in and out of their house three times, according to an account of security camera footage seized by Toronto police.

Between 9:11 a.m. and 10:16 a.m. on Dec. 14, 2017, the man walked from a four-door sedan parked in front of the Sherman house on Old Colony Rd., appeared to enter the house through the front door, then came back outside. He did this three times, for a total of 29 minutes inside the Sherman home, before driving off."

A new, hidden clue in Barry and Honey Shermans' vanishing murder case - Macleans.ca
In its reporting on the bid to knock down the house, CTV stumbled upon what could be that very thing—a previously unreported, potentially key piece of evidence. In canvassing the neighbourhood for reaction, a reporter interviewed a woman who chose not to appear on camera or make her name public. She revealed that she handed over surveillance video to police that showed a car sitting in the Shermans’ driveway on Dec. 14, a day before the bodies were found and a day after the couple was last reported seen alive. In it, a man was seen “sometimes sitting in his car for up to 15 minutes, then going inside” the house.
29 minutes inside Barry and Honey Sherman’s home: Who was the visitor?
"Six weeks after police obtained a copy of the homeowners' video, a police detective from the homicide squad made an appointment to speak to the homeowners and came to their house on Jan. 25, 2018. The detective brought with her two photos, one showing a couple walking a dog and the other a lone woman. These photos (pictured with this story) were shown to the homeowners with no explanation, except that they were taken from other security cameras in the area.

The homeowners did not recognize the individual in either photo, but they did remark that on Monday, Dec. 11, in the early evening hours, they had noticed a man and a women they did not recognize walking on the street. The homeowners videotape from the Monday, which was turned over to police and private detectives, apparently does show a man and a women (woman is wearing a long coat and the man is tall) entering the Sherman home at 8:20 p.m. that Monday. The homeowners could not say if this was a different couple than the couple in the photo shown by the detective."
 
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watcher9 said:
I admit I'm not up to date on this case. When it first happened, I thought it may be similar to the Russell and Shirley Dermond case. Then it came out to be a murder suicide and I moved on to another case. Fast forward to today and I came across a similar article to the one you posted and came back to look. I found it has since been changed into a double homicide and it looks like there has been no suspect arrested thus far but the man in the video is interesting.

Anyway, on your link there was another link to an article that helped me get familiar to this case from the beginning to May of 2018. It may have already been posted.

How the investigation into the deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman turned from murder-suicide to double homicide | The Star

Off Topic but I had to click through every thread to get here on #11. We used to just change the number on the link and it would jump forward to a later thread. Is there any way to do that now?
Click to expand...

If you’re interesting in catching up on the case, Bloomberg published a fairly comprehensive article a few months ago. If you’re interested this link will take you there.
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
 
I have posted before about the inexplicable 45 minute delay by those at the crime scene in contacting police after the bodies were discovered. Now the Toronto star article indicates that the bodies were discovered around 10 am, but first responders didn’t arrive until 11.45 am, about an hour and 45 minutes later. I’m pretty sure that first responders arrived as quickly as possible after they were contacted. So I have to wonder again, what happened during that extended time? Who accessed the crime scene? What possible rationale would anyone have for not calling police for such a long time? Why wait for a realtor in Florida to tell you to call the police, and who did that realtor call?
I’m sorry, I know others here have tried to defend or explain the delay, but with this new information This whole case is really really starting to smell. Imo
 
ldlager said:
I have posted before about the inexplicable 45 minute delay by those at the crime scene in contacting police after the bodies were discovered. Now the Toronto star article indicates that the bodies were discovered around 10 am, but first responders didn’t arrive until 11.45 am, about an hour and 45 minutes later. I’m pretty sure that first responders arrived as quickly as possible after they were contacted. So I have to wonder again, what happened during that extended time? Who accessed the crime scene? What possible rationale would anyone have for not calling police for such a long time? Why wait for a realtor in Florida to tell you to call the police, and who did that realtor call?
I’m sorry, I know others here have tried to defend or explain the delay, but with this new information This whole case is really really starting to smell. Imo
Click to expand...

It was the same reporter, Kevin Donovan who originally stated that the bodies were discovered "shortly after 11am". I suspect the 10am time is a misprint.

How the investigation into the deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman turned from murder-suicide to double homicide | The Star
 
deugirtni said:
Sometimes I fear we give too much credit to TPS.
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.

I agree , and many times wanted to post the same thing ..... police are never as good as we think they are ..... they are simply fellow humans in a career with varying degrees of success ranging from reasonably good to outright blunders.

ONE (rare) example of excellence was how the Hamilton police handled the Timothy Bosma case. Top marks for them

Another hero of mine was the off duty lady police officer who noticed an out of place vehicle parked in a field ..... she mentioned that later to investigators looking for Jessica Lloyd .... they matched the tire tracks and footprints to Russel Williams and were able to convict him of two murders.

Unfortunately we have terrible examples such as the Winnipeg Police force who have had 5 members charged with drunk driving in 2017 .... and those were only the ones who got caught.

Winnipeg police officer acquitted of impaired charge after being found asleep in running car | CBC News
 
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