Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #14 *ARREST*

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ChiCubs2016 said:
Have not been here long but the cases I have followed have been similar IMO. LE keeping everything to themselves, which is understandable as they do not want the person responsible to know everything they know but disappointing to us because we want to solve the case.
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It’s all about ensuring a fair trial - they will tell the Defence team what they know prior to trial, but the public don’t find out until the actual trial. The police don’t want evidence being told to the public because it could get him off on a technicality - even if guilty. They are cautious now what the media can release. So they only appeal with what they need help with.
 
yakus1964 said:
The banks of the Humber are quite beach like and very muddy/claggy. Unless he got into a boat and dumped it further out or somehow threw it off the Humber Bridge (he almost certainly would have been seen doing this so highly unlikely) then it would not have ended up in the middle of the estuary near Spurn Head, on its way into the North Sea.

The River Hull actually flows right into the Humber (would you believe it?) so anything floating or being carried by its currents would have ended up being spat into the flow of the Humber rather than just onto the sandy banks, and would have been carried out by the tides.
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Yes, I've said several times that there are actually fewer places than you'd think along the waterfront of Hull with access to deep water that are a) accessible and b) not covered by CCTV c) deserted enough so that no one would notice somebody disposing of a body. I suggested the area around the old St Andrew's Dock and the Lord Line building.

My feeling about LS being put into the River Hull higher up is that I suppose she could have somehow been carried by the current* (such as it is) right down past the TSB and The Deep and out into the estuary, but at other times, I look and I think... no. But then again like I said in a previous post, sometimes the simple explanation is the best.

I'm familiar with Hull, I was born there and lived there or environs (apart from three years at Uni) until I finally moved away in 1980.

*For those unfamiliar, it's not like the Seine in Paris or the Tiber in Rome where you have a large body of relatively swift moving water right in the heart of the city. It does divide the city neatly into East and West Hull, but at low tide sometimes its down to a trickle. Look at this picture of the former Hull trawler Arctic Corsair which is now moored up on the River Hull as a tourist attraction. This is at low tide, and you can see how little water is left - and this is quite a long way down towards the TSB and the confluence with the Humber.
 

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Vermont24 said:
The CCTV footage does start with him outside of the car, at midnight, returning from the direction of the bench - a short distance away, as you know. He's already been in the area for 12 minutes at that point. The bench wouldn't have been visible from inside of the car, so I've got to suspect that he's already spent the majority of his time outside of it, or going back and forth.
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You're right there, but we don't know what he was doing for 12 minutes. I doubt GB would have scared him off, or that GB would have even stopped if he'd seen PR with LS and assumed he was there to help her and not do whatever nefarious business he had planned. We don't even (or do we?) know the exact time that LS arrived on the bench... But it would be too much of a coincidence for PR to just be in the right place at the right time to prey on LS.

My point is why did he keep going back and forth between his car and LS? We don't know how many times he may have done this, how long he spent with LS before and so on. I have too many questions about this.

Skigh said:
Could PR have been watching for the driver of the car parked in front of him to return and drive away before he made his advances to Libby?
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The CCTV of her on the bench would answer all of these questions. It's genuinely reaching the point where I'd pay to see it.
 
Woollybear said:
Yes, I've said several times that there are actually fewer places than you'd think along the waterfront of Hull with access to deep water that are a) accessible and b) not covered by CCTV c) deserted enough so that no one would notice somebody disposing of a body. I suggested the area around the old St Andrew's Dock and the Lord Line building.

My feeling about LS being put into the River Hull higher up is that I suppose she could have somehow been carried by the current* (such as it is) right down past the TSB and The Deep and out into the estuary, but at other times, I look and I think... no. But then again like I said in a previous post, sometimes the simple explanation is the best.

I'm familiar with Hull, I was born there and lived there or environs (apart from three years at Uni) until I finally moved away in 1980.

*For those unfamiliar, it's not like the Seine in Paris or the Tiber in Rome where you have a large body of relatively swift moving water right in the heart of the city. It does divide the city neatly into East and West Hull, but at low tide sometimes its down to a trickle. Look at this picture of the former Hull trawler Arctic Corsair which is now moored up on the River Hull as a tourist attraction. This is at low tide, and you can see how little water is left - and this is quite a long way down towards the TSB and the confluence with the Humber.
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I once saw an animal (long since dead, probably a dog) being carried away at a reasonable speed at the point in the river you've pictured, closest to the Arctic Corsair. That is the muddiest point of the river, as it approaches the Humber.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned so far (I'm blaming myself here) is that the Environment Agency have been doing substantial works on the banks. I'll try and find a schedule or case study etc to give a better idea of timings and so on.
 
yakus1964 said:
I just find it unlikely and strange that he'd go to her, go back to his car for a *advertiser censored*, go back to LS and then get her to come with him. Seems very odd. Which is what I mean by the Greybeard theory, because if he had tried to speak to her whilst GB was there, GB would definitely have noticed him. Surely if GB and PR's paths never crossed he would have only gone once and would have got her back to his car maybe in a similar amount of time.
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He might have ‘passed’ her and said
I’ve got to go and do X, Y or Z.
I’ll pop back in 5/10/15 minutes. If you’re still her I’ll give you a lift.
She then wouldn’t have been surprised to have seen him again and little conversation would have been needed.
 
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Cherwell said:
I don't think we even know this, do we? Unless there's a version I've missed. I thought the sister's account was uncredited, because I thought at the time that it could have been his wife that gave the sister this story.
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I would take anything the sister did or did not say with a massive pinch of salt.

We don't even know if Pawel said anything to his wife or sister (sister could have said it thinking she was helping him by making up a story about him helping a girl).

Also a lot of things could have got lost in translation.

The sisters comments don't even enter my thoughts when thinking about what happened that night as I just don't trust how true or accurate they are.

Just MOO though.
 
ChiCubs2016 said:
Yes even if maybe GB did not see PR but PR saw GB.
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I'm thinking he might have seen GB. If he heard Libby say to GB she was waiting for her friends to come back from the Welly, he could just walk over and say "your friends sent me to come pick up to take you to the Welly". If she was really drunk she might not question that.
 
yakus1964 said:
So if GB wasn't there when PR showed up, why did he keep to-ing and fro-ing?
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To-ing and fro-ing makes it sound like he was repeatedly making the journey between his car and the bench and have no idea if he was. The point was made that he could have had a conversation with LS in the 12 minutes before the public ally seen footage began thereby paving the way for the time he was seen leaving the car and returning with someone to be so short
 
Vermont24 said:
I once saw an animal (long since dead, probably a dog) being carried away at a reasonable speed at the point in the river you've pictured, closest to the Arctic Corsair. That is the muddiest point of the river, as it approaches the Humber.
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That you saw it, and the relative size of dogs to humans, makes me wonder again why no-one saw LS. She would have had to pass under six bridges by my count (7 if you include Scott Street, which is shown as raised on Google Street View - I don't know if that's a permanent state of affairs) Still, I'm not saying it didn't happen. The fact is - we just don't know... anyway, I must get this report finished... work is the curse of the drinking classes!
 
Joolz1975 said:
I would take anything the sister did or did not say with a massive pinch of salt.
We don't even know if Pawel said anything to his wife or sister (sister could have said it thinking she was helping him by making up a story about him helping a girl).
Also a lot of things could have got lost in translation.
The sisters comments don't even enter my thoughts when thinking about what happened that night as I just don't trust how true or accurate they are.
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I couldn't agree more.
 
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