3-28-19 SWAT team with guns drawn raids Arizona home for toddler w/fever

[Breezie]

If the fever went down, why would the parents still need to go to the ER?

When the SWAT team got ahold of the child, was the child still sick?

jmo

KNXV report: SWAT Team called to retrieve sick 2-year-old | Michael Berry | NewsRadio 740 KTRH


Dad’s response

"They said, 'Brooks, you have to come out of your house with your children right now. We have to check on them.' But I said, "I have him in my arms right now. He's doing fine. He temperature is 100 degrees. He's sleeping. Could you please leave us alone?"

They probably knew their son would be taken, then, and might have hoped to sort things out in the morning. Even if the parents had cooperated, and the fever was down, they would probably still take him, just to be cautious.

 

[borndem]

LE might well have taken the child from the home. They are there to protect and to serve, after all, so they needed to make sure that the child is not seriously ill. I don't know what the protocol is for a situation like that, but I would hope that there would be some instructions on how LE should handle such a situation. Their protocol -- if they have one for such a situation, and I certainly think there would be one -- may be to go ahead and take the child to the ER -- what else could they have done? -- just to make sure that all is well with the child.
A tuff one all around.

 

[coffeeandacig]

I really hope this baby didn't receive any brain damage from this fever.

 

[cobalt sky]

SWAT team with guns drawn raids Arizona home for toddler with fever


Questions raised after Chandler police break door to check on feverish toddler

The above reporter did a very good job of covering the perspectives of everyone involved in this incident IMO!

IMO the doctor, DCS, and LE all intervened appropriately and within the scope of their fields of expertise. I think the Judge tried their best to be fair and to facilitate the reunion of the children with first their grandparents, and then their parents. Unfortunately it is the children who will suffer the most, being separated from their parents and each other. But this could have all been avoided if the parents had just followed the doctor's recommendations to go to the emergency room. And later, if they would have just made themselves available to medical staff, DCS, and LE when they were trying to make contact with them. And while the SWAT team breaking down the door seems extreme, again, if the parents had just answered the door.... and if there's any question as to why DCS would want LE/SWAT present, you just never know how far a domestic situation might escalate....from the article:

"Officers said the home was “messy” with clothing piles and concrete floors. In the parent’s room, a shotgun lay next to the bed, according to police records."

The judge said the removal was warranted, citing the mother’s refusal to follow the doctor’s orders. She said records showed the family had a history of domestic violence, noting an incident in which the father punched a wall."

IMO, I think there are more flags we are unaware of.
Due to HIPPA, the police nor medical staff with be able to release all the medical information.

This, 1000%! There is definitely more to the story.

All IMO

 

[katydid23]

If the fever went down, why would the parents still need to go to the ER?

When the SWAT team got ahold of the child, was the child still sick?

jmo

I am thinking that the doctor was not certain about the fever going down and he needed to verify that

There are plenty of parents who misinform doctors about their children’s health issues.

And I think thst there were probably red flags during the doctors visit that erred him on the side of caution.

His priority was the immediate health concern of the young child. He was an advocate for that child. I would never take a child with a fever of 105 and take them home to see if it goes down. That is a dangerous decision, in my opinion

 

[Simply Southern]

The above reporter did a very good job of covering the perspectives of everyone involved in this incident IMO!

IMO the doctor, DCS, and LE all intervened appropriately and within the scope of their fields of expertise. I think the Judge tried their best to be fair and to facilitate the reunion of the children with first their grandparents, and then their parents. Unfortunately it is the children who will suffer the most, being separated from their parents and each other. But this could have all been avoided if the parents had just followed the doctor's recommendations to go to the emergency room. And later, if they would have just made themselves available to medical staff, DCS, and LE when they were trying to make contact with them. And while the SWAT team breaking down the door seems extreme, again, if the parents had just answered the door.... and if there's any question as to why DCS would want LE/SWAT present, you just never know how far a domestic situation might escalate....from the article:

"Officers said the home was “messy” with clothing piles and concrete floors. In the parent’s room, a shotgun lay next to the bed, according to police records."

The judge said the removal was warranted, citing the mother’s refusal to follow the doctor’s orders. She said records showed the family had a history of domestic violence, noting an incident in which the father punched a wall."



This, 1000%! There is definitely more to the story.

All IMO

I knew it !!!! My gut, again!!
Pregnant MOM, bet she's had no prenatal care. Notice, Mom didn't offer to take a drug test!!
No Medicaid why didn't she apply????
Baby Daddy, domestic violence, drug and alcohol testing.
The house was a mess, no medial records, shotgun by bed, one child had vomited in the bed. Refused to open the door or answer phone with Police. But he managed to video the police, WOW, amazing.

They saved this kids life!!!! Kids die frequently from untreated RSV.
Bet, there is more!!!

 

[katydid23]

My guess is they thought he might be kept at the hospital overnight which might cost that much.

I don’t think that is a very realistic assumption that they made.

All kinds of questions arise. Why didn’t they have some kind of medi-cal or low cost coverage for their kids? If they don’t have any money they are eligible for no cost medical care for the kids.

It is irresponsible to deny medical care for an acutely ill child because you fear you cannot pay the huge bill you assume will come from treating them.

 

[Inthedetails]

I am thinking that the doctor was not certain about the fever going down and he needed to verify that

There are plenty of parents who misinform doctors about their children’s health issues.

And I think thst there were probably red flags during the doctors visit that erred him on the side of caution.

His priority was the immediate health concern of the young child. He was an advocate for that child. I would never take a child with a fever of 105 and take them home to see if it goes down. That is a dangerous decision, in my opinion

I understand the doctor's concern. I don't understand a SWAT team in the middle of the night. Surely we can do better than that.

jmo

 

[borndem]

I understand the doctor's concern. I don't understand a SWAT team in the middle of the night. Surely we can do better than that.

jmo

That does seem like overdoing it, but there may be more to the story. Maybe this wasn't LE's first time to this family at this address -- or maybe not -- not guessing or blaming or assuming anything here, please know.
Maybe this procedure was part of protocol if LE thinks or is told that a child is in immediate danger, and the parents do not allow entrance.
Maybe someone who knows more about this type of situation could shed some light on how such a situation is handled in this state or county, or elsewhere.

 

[katydid23]

I understand the doctor's concern. I don't understand a SWAT team in the middle of the night. Surely we can do better than that.

jmo

That is where we are now, sadly enough.

How many police have been shot at when trying to intervene for CPS?

I don’t blame regular officers for giving up after the parents refusals to open the door.

At that point it is protocol to bring in armed and shielded cops. It is the only way to protect the officers because Parentsvwho believe their children are about to be taken are often volatile and unpredictable.

It is unfair to the regular patrol officers to expect them to continue confronting a family that is refusing access to their child. At some point they have to wonder if they will be met with gunfire next time. It happens way too often

 

[Simply Southern]

I understand the doctor's concern. I don't understand a SWAT team in the middle of the night. Surely we can do better than that.

jmo

When anyone refuses to answer the door for police, then talks with them on the phone and REFUSES to open the door, the police move to plan B.
The Baby Daddy a history of domestic violence charges, and we know where that can lead. He had a loaded shotgun by the bed with three kids in the house.
This is NOT their first encounter with police. This easily could have turned into a hostage situation.
This is more than just not vaccinating kids.

They saved this kids life!!! These kids are usually hospitalized, put on oxygen, and IV antibiotics. Pretty serious stuff.

RSV is very serious.
RSV Symptoms, Causes & Risk Factors

• Nasal congestion, runny nose, mild cough, and low-grade fever are the typical initial symptoms of both the mild and of the more severe forms of the disease. He had a fever of 105
• Barking cough, which can be a sign of significant swelling in and around the vocal cords
• Fever, either low grade (less than 101 degrees F) or high (more than 103 degrees F)
• Difficulty breathing with one or more of the following:
  1. Abnormally fast breathing (tachypnea)
  2. "Caving-in" of the chest in between the ribs and under the ribs (chest wall retractions)
  3. "Spreading-out" of the nostrils with every breath (nasal flaring)
• Wheezing (a high-pitched whistling sound as the patient breathes out)
• Difficulty drinking
• Lethargy or irritability
• Bluish color around the mouth, lips, and fingernails (cyanosis)
• Apnea (stopping breathing) is a common symptom of RSV bronchiolitis among very young infants, especially those born prematurely

 

[Breezie]

A couple decided not to take their feverish child to the hospital. Hours later police kicked down their door

Attorneys for the parents claimed DCS was angry at the parents for speaking with the media and as retribution DCS officials were making it more difficult for the family to regain custody of their children. They said the child’s fever had gone down, as evidenced in medical reports.

It was verified that the fever had gone down and the parents were not lying about that.

How often is it necessary to go to the ER with a temp of 100?

 

[Inthedetails]

That is where we are now, sadly enough.

How many police have been shot at when trying to intervene for CPS?

I don’t blame regular officers for giving up after the parents refusals to open the door.

At that point it is protocol to bring in armed and shielded cops. It is the only way to protect the officers because Parentsvwho believe their children are about to be taken are often volatile and unpredictable.

It is unfair to the regular patrol officers to expect them to continue confronting a family that is refusing access to their child. At some point they have to wonder if they will be met with gunfire next time. It happens way too often

Of course I don't want officers shot at. If that was the situation here, I haven't read it yet - it would certainly change my mind.

I just happen to think we as a culture are falling down on the job. We can develop SWAT materials and tactics, but can't manage other techniques that are not violent, impersonal, punitive, expensive, etc. It's not just this situation, but across the board. But, that's a bigger issue than this case, I know.

jmo

 

[katydid23]

Of course I don't want officers shot at. If that was the situation here, I haven't read it yet - it would certainly change my mind.

I just happen to think we as a culture are falling down on the job. We can develop SWAT materials and tactics, but can't manage other techniques that are not violent, impersonal, punitive, expensive, etc. It's not just this situation, but across the board. But, that's a bigger issue than this case, I know.

jmo

It wasn’t the situation here that they were shot at. But the problem is that when you are standing outside the home and the people inside are upset and fear that you might take their children away——you are a vulnerable target

The guy did have a loaded shotgun in his bedroom. It was not a stretch for LE to send in men who are Swatted up for their own safety

 

[Simply Southern]

A couple decided not to take their feverish child to the hospital. Hours later police kicked down their door

Attorneys for the parents claimed DCS was angry at the parents for speaking with the media and as retribution DCS officials were making it more difficult for the family to regain custody of their children. They said the child’s fever had gone down, as evidenced in medical reports.

It was verified that the fever had gone down and the parents were not lying about that.

How often is it necessary to go to the ER with a temp of 100?

Questions raised after Chandler police break door to check on feverish toddler

A DCS investigator, a former police officer, took the stand. She said upon visiting the hospital, doctors found the toddler had RSV, a respiratory virus that can cause serious illness in young children. She said the parents weren’t complying with DCS' request to provide medical records for the children. She said they also weren’t following steps to regain custody of their children.

This is a long, very detailed article which appears to represent more fact.

 

[Breezie]

Questions raised after Chandler police break door to check on feverish toddler

A DCS investigator, a former police officer, took the stand. She said upon visiting the hospital, doctors found the toddler had RSV, a respiratory virus that can cause serious illness in young children. She said the parents weren’t complying with DCS' request to provide medical records for the children. She said they also weren’t following steps to regain custody of their children.

This is a long, very detailed article which appears to represent more fact.

This is the paragraph directly following the that paragraph.

One of the parent’s attorneys asked the DCS investigator to outline specific steps the parents must follow to get their children back. The caseworker said she couldn’t remember any of them.

 

[Vedder]

A couple decided not to take their feverish child to the hospital. Hours later police kicked down their door

It was just before 2 p.m. when the parents walked back into the courtroom.

A DCS investigator, a former police officer, took the stand. She said upon visiting the hospital, doctors found the toddler had RSV, a respiratory virus that can cause serious illness in young children. She said the parents weren’t complying with DCS' request to provide medical records for the children. She said they also weren’t following steps to regain custody of their children.

One of the parent’s attorneys asked the DCS investigator to outline specific steps the parents must follow to get their children back. The caseworker said she couldn’t remember any of them.

 

[Simply Southern]

This is the paragraph directly following the that paragraph.

One of the parent’s attorneys asked the DCS investigator to outline specific steps the parents must follow to get their children back. The caseworker said she couldn’t remember any of them.

Usually, the Investigators for Abuse are a entire separate division. Then it is turned over to the case management team to develop a ICP ( individual care plan), which outlines all the steps, provides support services, transportation, parenting classes, will help apply for Medicaid, and routine follow up. The goal is to reunite with family. Foster care is a huge expense to each state and casemanagers are diligently working to reunited child to a safe environment.

Working in home care with severely ill children and adults, I've seen so much. Parents that wont give medicine, dirty/hungry children, that have the saddest eyes, it breaks my heart. I even had one mom let the situation go so long the kid wound up on life support and Medicaid paid for 24 hour RN services for the rest of his life. I've had parents tell me they can't take it any more and want their kids to die, parents that refuse to take sick kids home from the hospital.I've dealt with drug addicted parents, mental illness, and just plain don't give a dang parents.
It's a cruel work some kids live in, we see it here.

 

[Simply Southern]

A couple decided not to take their feverish child to the hospital. Hours later police kicked down their door

It was just before 2 p.m. when the parents walked back into the courtroom.

A DCS investigator, a former police officer, took the stand. She said upon visiting the hospital, doctors found the toddler had RSV, a respiratory virus that can cause serious illness in young children. She said the parents weren’t complying with DCS' request to provide medical records for the children. She said they also weren’t following steps to regain custody of their children.

One of the parent’s attorneys asked the DCS investigator to outline specific steps the parents must follow to get their children back. The caseworker said she couldn’t remember any of them.

The DCS Investigators, are usually previous LE, that only work with abuse investigations. They are not involved in returning children to the home.
Their is an entirely separate team of casemanagers, usually with degrees in human services, social work, mental health and RNs that develop and work a plan to return to the home. They have "slush funds" that can help pay for housing, furniture, paint, toys, trips to the movies, etc. stuff Medicaid does not cover. Most states spend a great deal of money to return kids, its in the best interest of the children and saves the state about 40k per year in cost per kid. I wonder why the attorney didn't call the casemanager to the stand to answer that question??? Hum....

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I really hope this baby didn't receive any brain damage from this fever.

Me too. That is a very extremely high fever for anyone, but especially a child.

How long had the child had a 105 temp or had been sick?

Once my child's temp continued to rise, I would have immediately sought care then.

We had this happen to one of our daughters when she was four. We rushed her to the hospital, and they packed her in ice back then. We were both scared to death. It took forever for her fever to break. She didnt even remember being taken to the hospital.

Why would they have to come up with $2500 up front? Surely they had walk in clinics that are very reasonable.

If there was a nonprofit hospital close by they wouldnt turn a child away with 105 temp, imo.

A 105 temp can cause brain damage. A parent cant just sit idly by, and do nothing hoping the fever breaks.

That is child neglect, and child edangerment. Imo.

It's obvious when it even reached 103 and climbing the child needed immediate care then, and to know it kept rising is unexplainable as to why no care was sought.

What if it hadn't broken? What a horrible risk to take.

We would probably reading about another dead child or one possibly with brain damage if the sky high fever didn't break.

That's a risk I don't think many parents would want to take with their child's life.

There has to be much more to this story.

Imo