Identified! FL - Big Cypress Natl Preserve, Male Hiker, Denim & “Mostly Harmless” July 2018 - Vance Rodriguez #2

[Gardener1850]

My understanding, which might be wrong, is that they can get a judge to approve the search, but only after less intrusive methods have been exhausted. So if the Namus/Codis search comes up empty, that might open up other options.

That makes sense Carbuff. It's so frustrating that DNA takes so long to come back from the University of North Texas. I hope someone sees his photos and recognizes him soon so we don't have to wait on the DNA.

 

[carbuff]

That makes sense Carbuff. It's so frustrating that DNA takes so long to come back from the University of North Texas. I hope someone sees his photos and recognizes him soon so we don't have to wait on the DNA.

Yeah. Now that DNA is proving so useful, everybody is going for it and backlogs are over a year at some labs.

 

[Hatfield]

That is what they seemed to be saying in the podcast, but DNA Doe Project has cases from Florida it is currently working on. They are working on Alachua County John Doe: Alachua Co John Doe - DNA Doe Project Cases And also Julie Doe found near Orlando: Transgender Julie Doe - DNA Doe Project Cases
Perhaps it has to be a cold case of a certain number of years before they would allow it? It really doesn't make sense that they would not be allowed to solve recent cases with DNA too, especially since there is no crime suspected here. They could give someone back to their family sooner rather than later and they wouldn't have to pay for cold storage and cremation. MOO.

Thanks everyone for the latest updates about the DNA.

I agree that it seems real silly if there is any limitations when it comes to just trying to identify a body.

They either want to know who the person is or they dont. And if DNA is the answer with a geneology search then by golly just do it.

Even if it did not pinpoint exactly who it is, it would most likely give enough clues to narrow down who it is and make identifying all the much easier.

 

[amytothekate]

There is a good chance that his DNA would produce, at the very least, a 4C with enough shared DNA to identify a MRCA (most recent common ancestor) from which a family tree could be built using traditional genealogy methods. In fact, this is how I identified my biological father this year! Although, once I saw a picture, we really didn't need the DNA.


I just re-listened to the 2nd episode of Sworn Statement that discussed DNA. They talked about the differences between the traditional crime lab DNA samples taken from a crime scene, which are directly matched to a specific individual, compared to the commercial testing companies doing familial DNA testing, such as Ancestry and 23andMe. The two are completely different tests and cannot be compared. However, unless I completely missed it, they didn't go into why genetic genealogy couldn't be employed yet for this case, legally.

I could have sworn someone explained that they were unable to submit MH's DNA due to the circumstances of his death not being considered a criminal investigation. Does anyone recall if they discuss that in Ep. 1 or 3? Did I just make that up?

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

I could have sworn someone explained that they were unable to submit MH's DNA due to the circumstances of his death not being considered a criminal investigation. Does anyone recall if they discuss that in Ep. 1 or 3? Did I just make that up?

RSBM for focus.

I don’t think you made that up. I remember seeing that in one of the threads on CCSO’s Facebook page. I will try to find it.

So glad you were able to find your bio dad. Beautiful daughter, handsome dad .

 

[amytothekate]

Thank you so much, @inmyhumbleopinion!

Here's a transcription of the relevant part about DNA from Sworn Statement; Episode 2:
• Christine Gill: DNA testing results are pending in this case. Samples were sent from the ME’s office to University of North Texas earlier this year. But, they can take an additional six months to a year to process. A lot of that has to do with the backlog of work at UNT, and criminal cases are given priority. But here’s the thing, even once DNA testing comes back, all we get is a profile. We still need something to match it to. So, unless the hiker has been reported as missing and his DNA is available through a database, the sample won’t match to anything. Of course, there’s another way DNA is being used these days, in genealogy testing. A lot of folks have chimed in on Facebook and online threads about this case, to point out that the GSK case was solved using a genealogy database. So why don’t we just upload the hiker’s DNA into one of those DBs, find his family, and reach out? The answer is we can and we can’t. Here’s Lori Napolitano, she’s Chief of Forensic Services for the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.
• Lori Napolitano: One thing that probably needs to be made clear is there’s two different types of DNA testing - traditional that we’ve done for years and years when someone’s arrested or someone’s missing and we…on a missing person, we can get DNA, let’s say, from family members, or when someone’s arrested, their DNA goes into our CODIS national DB; it’s offenders and MPs. So, that’s the type of DNA testing that the crime lab would do on a suspect sample or on an unidentified deceased person. That is a completely different type of DNA sample or DNA profile than what gets developed for the ancestry type testing. They come from the same person but it’s like a hand and a foot, they’re completely different, you can’t compare them. So, this testing, when we talk about genetic genealogy and GSK, that is a different type of test. That’s the same test that people do on Ancestry and 23andMe, but it’s new to LE for usage in this way.
• CG: Sites like 23andMe and Ancestry have made it a policy not to work with LE in an effort to protect the privacy of its users. So, when you hear about detectives solving cases with genetic genealogy, it’s usually through a third party DB called GEDMATCH.
• LN: The only DB that we have to use is GEDMATCH. Who, after GSK, they had a privacy policy that always told people who uploaded their DNA there that it could be used for other purposes. They publicly announced they would work with LE and now, every day that you log into GEDMATCH, you get a message reminding you that your DNA could be used by LE, and also provides a link to remove it if you don’t like it. But, it is very different than the Ancestry and 23andMe, and what we’ll call “commercial testing” companies. GEDMATCH doesn’t test any DNA, it’s strictly a DB of DNA profiles of people who choose to put their DNA there. They may have tested with Ancestry or tested with 23andMe, and then they get the DNA from the company they tested with, and are able to download it to their computer, and they choose to upload it to GEDMATCH.
• CG: If you aren’t familiar with the GSK case, I’ll summarize: the moniker was given to a serial killer who murdered 12 women and raped more than 45 in the California suburbs between 1976 and 1986. Just last year, detectives who were still working on the case 40 years later uploaded a DNA sample from one of the crime scenes into GEDMATCH. The result provided a common ancestor for the suspect. And using that information, LE was able to build a family tree. From there, they were able to zero in on an individual within the family who was male and who lived in the area of the crimes when they were committed. It’s important to note that even after narrowing things down to one suspect, LE still had to get a DNA sample from that individual to compare to the crime scene samples. This new ability is thrilling for LE, but terrifying for privacy advocates. Keep in mind that the GSK did not upload his own DNA into GEDMATCH, a relative likely uploaded his or her own DNA. So when you agree to a site’s disclosure about how your DNA might be used, you are also making that choice for people you are related to, who might never have spit into a test tube. Ethical debates aside, GEDMATCH is not a one stop shop for unsolved cases.
• LN: So, for this type of genetic genealogy testing, it just generates a lead, it is not the same type of testing we do in the crime lab, where we ID it to a specific person who’s been arrested, for example. That type of testing, traditional DNA testing, that we do in a crime lab - that can lead you directly to single person with a single scientific test. Genetic genealogy gives the investigator another lead, just like a tip off a tip line, just like a video camera where they see cars and they run tag numbers and develop leads that way. So, it’s a lead generator, like a photo lineup might be. If you get a suspect out of a genetic genealogy lead, the LE agency would still have to get a DNA sample from that suspect and send it to the crime lab and get a match to the crime scene sample, just like every other case that is being solved through crime lab DNA.
• CG: Down the road, this type of testing is likely to play a bigger and bigger role in LE. Whether or not it can help us to ID the hiker…
• LN: I think our hope is that we won’t have cases, or as many cases, that ever go cold again. Unidentified deceased persons can hopefully get their ID determined very quickly, families can get answers to the whereabouts, or know what happened, to loved ones quicker with this.
• CG: Okay, so now that you understand what our limitations are in this case when it comes to DBs and DNA, I’ll lay out what detectives did instead to try to ID this hiker.

Sorry for any errors, I only did one quick proof-read!

 

[K9Enzo]

@amytothekate Thank you for posting the transcript!

 

[amytothekate]

@amytothekate Thank you for posting the transcript!

My pleasure - I got a real kick out of listening to it at half-speed so I could keep up typing!

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

There is a good chance that his DNA would produce, at the very least, a 4C with enough shared DNA to identify a MRCA (most recent common ancestor) from which a family tree could be built using traditional genealogy methods. In fact, this is how I identified my biological father this year! Although, once I saw a picture, we really didn't need the DNA.
View attachment 176505

I just re-listened to the 2nd episode of Sworn Statement that discussed DNA. They talked about the differences between the traditional crime lab DNA samples taken from a crime scene, which are directly matched to a specific individual, compared to the commercial testing companies doing familial DNA testing, such as Ancestry and 23andMe. The two are completely different tests and cannot be compared. However, unless I completely missed it, they didn't go into why genetic genealogy couldn't be employed yet for this case, legally.

I could have sworn someone explained that they were unable to submit MH's DNA due to the circumstances of his death not being considered a criminal investigation. Does anyone recall if they discuss that in Ep. 1 or 3? Did I just make that up?

Here is what I found:

Collier County Sheriff's Office
[Comment]
Try loading a raw DNA profile to GEDMatch. It is working for cold cases.
32w
[CCSO]
This is not a criminal case. Thank you.
32w

[Comment]
What about doing a DNA test & check ancestry who he might be related to...
32w
[CCSO]
Federal privacy laws and the policies of the private companies that provide ancestry services prohibit this. Thanks.
32w
[Comment]
Collier County Sheriff's Office If that’s the case how was it used to find out who the Golden state killer was ?
32w
[CCSO]
[T]hrough court warrants. There is no crime here so warrants do not apply.
32w

Collier County Sheriff's Office
[Comment]
Wouldn’t a DNA from a Genealogist narrow the deceit to a specific area or origin of those who could possibly know of him? I seen this done in California, in the case of a serial killer in Sacramento California. Just wondering.
31w
[CCSO]
This is not a crime so we are limited as to accessing dna databases. Thank you.
31w
[Comment]
That’s understood, I was referring to making identification using Genealogy like they done in Sacramento California. Thank you
31w
[CCSO]
that was a criminal case
31w

Collier County Sheriff's Office
[Comment]
Upload his DNA into GEDMatch and Ancestry. I found my husband's birth father with no information. Criminal genealogy is where it is at.
4w
[CCSO]
Episode two talks about this as a possibility.
4w

 

[ilovepierre]

Wow!
A thread #2 for MH!
Not very often do John/Jane Doe’s get multiple threads.
Hopefully this will be the thread where MH gets his name back

 

[turanna25]

I really hope this is the thread that gives our John Doe's name back!

 

[amytothekate]

I'm out of ideas. I started a spreadsheet with high schools in and surrounding Baton Rouge, and have documented which have yearbooks available on Classmates, scanning for lookalikes in MH's age range. While it is most likely a massive waste of time, I think about MH every day, and I suppose scanning yearbooks makes me feel better than doing nothing. I got through many before I started keeping track of those that could be safely excluded, my documented list is 50+, so far.

If anyone has any ideas, please let me know, I'd love to help! I think of MH every day, and no matter who he is and what his life was like, I'd like to see him get his name back and be put to rest. I believe it's most likely to be achieved via familial DNA unless the story and photos reach the right folks to recognize him first.

 

[K9Enzo]

I've thought about elderly parents who are not on-line, so to say, who would not know their son's picture has been circulating. I'm not sure how much tv news this case got (morning shows, etc.). Has anyone reported him missing? It doesn't appear so but I suppose something could fall through the cracks with shared LE sites.

This is probably an absurd statement but maybe he does have a loved one who has seen his info, knows he's now deceased but is following his wishes of remaining anonymous, for whatever reason. I realize that's a huge stretch. But, this is someone who I don't believe lived "off the grid" making it easier for him to remain nameless. I just can't believe someone has not recognized him but he has not even been deceased a year, maybe someone is not worried about him yet and he rarely checked in with family. Just odd.

 

[mountainash]

In the previous thread it was asked if there is anyone following from the Ocala area and whether there is possibility of MH having had contact with the Rainbow Family. I'm on the Southwest corner of the Ocala National Forest. It's commonly believed that the Rainbow Family lives in the Ocala National Forest. In actuality they travel and live off of public lands throughout the country. However, there is typically a Rainbow Gathering the first couple weeks of February here. It's possible there may have been a few stragglers still around in March 2018 when MH was in the area, but determining who those individuals were would be really difficult. It would be worthwhile to share MostlyHarmless's info on the forums at Squat The Planet, though.

 

[Blueberry2720]

MH beard removal and face/age regression using a simple app.

Perhaps someone from his teens through his 20s might recognize a younger version of him.
Or could assist with anyone attempting to locate him in a high school or college yearbook.

Skin color variation on neck is due to tanned skin and lighter skin uncovered when beard removed.

 

[amytothekate]

MH beard removal and face/age regression using a simple app.

Perhaps someone from his teens through his 20s might recognize a younger version of him.
Or could assist with anyone attempting to locate him in a high school or college yearbook.

Skin color variation on neck is due to tanned skin and lighter skin uncovered when beard removed.

This is so cool, thank you so much for sharing! I tried it out on two others. His beard was too much for the app to handle totally removing in the second, but you definitely get the point!

 

[carbuff]

He looks MUCH younger without the beard.

 

[turanna25]

He looks MUCH younger without the beard.

I agree! I always thought he was on the younger side of the age range.

 

[Podengo]

So I have had a little bit of a hard time completely ruling this guy out. The timeline is slightly off as MH would have had to had traveled to CO in August of 2017. The height, hair color and eye color are the same. The fact that no one seems to be missing either at all seems strange to me. I have always thought MH looked a little younger than they said.
This guy, Travis Butler (in Namus as Travis Bulter). The only picture I can find if him looks like a high school pr picture even though he rented a car in 8/17, so I would assume he has a known drivers license.

 

[Gardener1850]

I don't think I've seen this man suggested before. I can't find much about him:

Frankie Dibona Missing since Feb 2017
SC - SC - Franklin 'Frankie' DiBona, Greenville, 18 Feb 2017