MA MA - Molly Bish, 16, Warren, 27 Jun 2000

[On The Books]

You are right, the real question is was it a random murderer who surveyed the area or was it a local person who knew her. Warren is a small town, so almost everyone basically knows each other even without being considered friends.

I tend to think the white car man was just a red herring. It could have just been a random fisherman, and this is what led the investigation astray. If someone was planning to kidnap Molly they probably wouldn't park in the parking lot and stare them down the day before. Everything else about the crime was perfectly executed without any mistakes revealing his identity, it doesn't make sense that he would reveal his identity and car the day before. On the other hand, it could have been the white car man who saw Molly for the first time that morning.

1. I think she was probably killed that day or soon after. Her bones were found with her bathing suit. If she was in a hostage or captivity situation like Elizibeth Smart she probably wouldnt still be wearing the bathing suit when buried. Most people in Warren probably knew Molly, or the Bish family, but it doesn't mean they talked to them or even had to answer questions.

2. Yes if she was held captive it would probably be a basement, or a homemade bunker or an abandoned cabin like they found nearby Whiskey Hill. But I think most likely she was killed soon, maybe even in the woods behind Comins Pond. It would have been really difficult to transport and hide her without being seen. She was probably killed, put into some kind of bag and buried later that day. I think its possible that Whiskey hill was the second burial site, thats why it took 3 years to find her remains.

3. The parks commissioner was nearby painting a fence nearby with Mr. Tatro, who had a son who went to school with Molly and testified at the Grand Jury. I think the commissioner saw John Bish at the store in the morning before they realized Molly was missing, though not sure. I think if it was the commissioner he would have been caught... its too obvious... but who knows...?

I think it was someone local who was older but knew her on the outside, saw her in town, or at sporting events or something like that. There is also a smaller chance that she randomly crossed paths with a serial killer.

I am still confused by a lot of the information in Molly Bish's case. I always thought Molly Bish was taking over for her brother John at the Commins Pond beach area and that she had been trained previously by him and was now on her 8th day(I think) alone lifeguarding the beach. This is what the television shows made me think.

Until someone can figure out whether Molly Bish was kidnapped by a stranger or by someone who knew her it is going to be very difficult to solve this case. If indeed it was someone that knew Molly Bish I think you can come up with two assumptions that are not set in stone, but that I would work from:

1. Molly Bish was probably not killed during the day. The reason I think that is because if the person knew her, they would have to assume that once she was reported missing the Bish family or police might call to ask if they have seen Molly.

2. If the crime was planned in such a way by someone who knew Molly Bish, they would likely have someplace to put her, whether a small getaway building or a place within their home. The reason I think that is because if the person has a wife or kids it is going to be more difficult to hide the kidnapping victim. So when examining suspects, talking to their wife or kids about where they were between June 27-July 4, 2000(a week) is probably going to be important. But if the person is single that probably is not going to matter.

The parks commissioner is an obvious suspect although in the tv programs I was confused about something. According to the witness that first arrived at the pond, she said she arrived about 20 minutes after Molly's mom had dropped Molly off. So that puts it around 10:20am. Then according to 48 hours program, an hour passed and Molly's boss showed up(11:20 am) and noticed the lifeguard was not there. He waited around and eventually called police using the 2 way radio. This according to the Disappeared program was at 11:44am. Yet later on the in the same Disappeared episode Molly's brother John said he ran into the parks commissioner and he did not mention Molly Bish was missing. The program later says his running into Molly's brother gives him his alibi and they moved on to other suspects. So my question is what time did the parks commissioner run into Molly's brother at the hardware store? Was it after he called police?

If the parks commissioner committed the crime it would have to be a very elaborate plan although there is one other reason a person would use St. Paul's cemetery to access the beach. The reason is they would not want to be seen arriving to work. This way they can kidnap the victim, take them home and put them somewhere, then go back and "arrive" at work to find out the lifeguard is missing while hoping that someone other than themselves has to call police. Everything would have to have been thought out ahead of time, right down to the color of the swimsuit. And as most police officers would tell you, that is television, not real life.

But if it was the parks commissioner why are Molly Bish's sandals on the beach? Couldn't he just coax her close to his car with some excuse? She would trust him. So again it does not make sense.

And everything I wrote above, except for the swimsuit color could have been thought out by a stranger who planned the crime in advance. Maybe Rodney Stanger saw Molly Bish earlier, then set up some place to take her, and put his plan into motion using the cemetery as cover to kidnap Molly?

Was Molly Bish kidnapped by a stranger or by someone she knew? If this were June 2000 the white car theory would be my top choice. I don't know if I think the same thing today although that individual in the white car has not come forward to say they were not involved. So sadly after over 18 1/2 years we are still left trying to answer that same question.

 

[somequestions]

You are right, the real question is was it a random murderer who surveyed the area or was it a local person who knew her. Warren is a small town, so almost everyone basically knows each other even without being considered friends.

I tend to think the white car man was just a red herring. It could have just been a random fisherman, and this is what led the investigation astray. If someone was planning to kidnap Molly they probably wouldn't park in the parking lot and stare them down the day before. Everything else about the crime was perfectly executed without any mistakes revealing his identity, it doesn't make sense that he would reveal his identity and car the day before. On the other hand, it could have been the white car man who saw Molly for the first time that morning.

1. I think she was probably killed that day or soon after. Her bones were found with her bathing suit. If she was in a hostage or captivity situation like Elizibeth Smart she probably wouldnt still be wearing the bathing suit when buried. Most people in Warren probably knew Molly, or the Bish family, but it doesn't mean they talked to them or even had to answer questions.

2. Yes if she was held captive it would probably be a basement, or a homemade bunker or an abandoned cabin like they found nearby Whiskey Hill. But I think most likely she was killed soon, maybe even in the woods behind Comins Pond. It would have been really difficult to transport and hide her without being seen. She was probably killed, put into some kind of bag and buried later that day. I think its possible that Whiskey hill was the second burial site, thats why it took 3 years to find her remains.

3. The parks commissioner was nearby painting a fence nearby with Mr. Tatro, who had a son who went to school with Molly and testified at the Grand Jury. I think the commissioner saw John Bish at the store in the morning before they realized Molly was missing, though not sure. I think if it was the commissioner he would have been caught... its too obvious... but who knows...?

I think it was someone local who was older but knew her on the outside, saw her in town, or at sporting events or something like that. There is also a smaller chance that she randomly crossed paths with a serial killer.

It all comes down to how each individual looks at the evidence in a case. And it comes down to how much information you have in order to make conclusions.

I think you know a lot more about the Molly Bish case than I do. I did not know about the parks commissioner being nearby painting a fence with Mr. Tatro. I guess that would explain him going to the hardware store and would also explain why police seemed to have moved on from him as being a logical suspect early on. It sounds like he has a good alibi and is not a serious suspect.

The reason I thought he might be a suspect was because maybe he wanted Molly Bish to be wearing a red or orange swimsuit so it appears more likely she was abducted by a stranger. So I thought maybe Molly Bish did not choose a swimsuit from the book he brought(source: Disappeared program). And the reason she did not choose a swimsuit from the book was because there were no blue swimsuits in it. But again this is a guess. Maybe she did not like the design of the swimsuits and it has nothing to do with the color.

If the crime scene photos from 48 hours episode are correct and that actually is a picture of the crime scene, then the fact that the sandals are apart and not together could indicate she was interrupted by someone. So maybe someone came up from behind her and incapacitated her somehow then carried her out of the beach area. And that would explain the sandals being left on the beach.

Any type of geographical profiling is a guess based on statistical probability combined with some psychology. This case is not ideal for geographical profiling because you are not dealing with multiple points. I think that if the body was buried on the hillside in a shallow grave(and I think it was), then you have to consider the laziness principle. The laziness principle is that even murderers are lazy. They will bury bodies close to them because they do not want to take the time to travel. What is the difference if the body is a few miles away versus a few hundred miles away if the body is underground and cannot be seen anyway? So from a story I read when the ex-cop and the hunter found the body they went to the Ware, MA police department makes me think that is the closest jurisdiction. So my guess would be the murderer lives in the town of Ware. But again it is just a guess. This person could be some stalker Molly Bish had who lives in Warren and executed the crime using the cemetery as cover. And where her body was found was between Warren and Ware. The body was found in the small section of property jurisdiction, the very eastern side of Palmer that includes Whiskey Hill and is officially a part of the town of Palmer, MA. From a geography perspective I thought that was kind of unique. It was most likely a random spot chosen, but it makes you wonder if the person involved knows about town boundaries, etc.

The Elizabeth Smart case is a great case to use as an example of how you view the evidence. Someone entered the home and kidnapped their daughter. Now, in my opinion, you do not have to be any type of profiler to come up with one assumption that clearly has to be checked out and that assumption is that maybe the person has been inside the home before? So then you have all the family members write down anyone who may have been in their home and start eliminating people. But does this mean that it has to be someone who was in the home before? No. There are other cases where criminals have entered a person's home to commit a crime and they have never been there before.

Even how we view others is based on our interpretation. I see the picture of the boyfriend and the pictures of different hair colors and I see a goth girl. Molly Bish's boyfriend really looked goth to me. And psychology tells us that like people tend to attract to each other. So when I look at Molly Bish I see a goth girl who liked the color blue.

The fact that the white car has not been found does not mean that it is not the person in the white car. It just means that the white car suspect has not been found to either include or eliminate him as a suspect in Molly Bish's case. Molly's boyfriend was a teenager who does not seem like he could pull off this type of crime. Does that mean Molly Bish's boyfriend is NOT the murderer? And you could go on and on for every suspect in this case.

So who murdered Molly Bish? I don't know.

 

[On The Books]

Thats interesting about the color of the bathing suit. Im not saying its not the parks commissioner, its just that he is a real person, still at the job, so its hard to accuse him without real evidence. I was under the impression that they had ordered the orange suit the previous week, but in the meantime while waiting for the shipment she was wearing her own suit.

I would assume they took her hostage first it would have been difficult to carry her all that way. But anything is possible.

Yes, geographical profiling is a good way. The whiskey hill location is accessed on a backroad between warren and ware. The main road to ware would be rt. 9.
That would be in the general direction of someone driving to western mass or springfield. Its a hunting area, with a hunting club nearby, but also a place where people dump trash I guess. I would think that means its someone who knows the area and lives nearby, but far enough away from whiskey hill. so someone who live in ware or warren would be a good guess. Its kind of a "nowhere land" between the two towns, but popular with hunters, and known by people who live there who want a quick way to ware, especially coming from west warren.

Its true that its not always the case the the murderer knows the victim... but I think it would be statistically more likely... especially when you factor in all the secluded localized places in this case, which are not known by outsiders.

Molly wasn't goth, she was more of an athlete type. Her boyfriend, was closer to that profile but also hemp necklaces etc. I wouldn't say goth. Just general small town 90s mtv generation stuff.

It could totally be the white car guy... its just that it seems like it leads to alot of dead ends. If the murderer was so good at hiding his crime why would he reveal himself the day before of the crime? I just want to keep an open mind about it because the investigation up to this point has been totally focused on the guy in the white car and has been unsuccessful.

Do you think this is the result of a serial killer... or just some local psycho?

It all comes down to how each individual looks at the evidence in a case. And it comes down to how much information you have in order to make conclusions.

I think you know a lot more about the Molly Bish case than I do. I did not know about the parks commissioner being nearby painting a fence with Mr. Tatro. I guess that would explain him going to the hardware store and would also explain why police seemed to have moved on from him as being a logical suspect early on. It sounds like he has a good alibi and is not a serious suspect.

The reason I thought he might be a suspect was because maybe he wanted Molly Bish to be wearing a red or orange swimsuit so it appears more likely she was abducted by a stranger. So I thought maybe Molly Bish did not choose a swimsuit from the book he brought(source: Disappeared program). And the reason she did not choose a swimsuit from the book was because there were no blue swimsuits in it. But again this is a guess. Maybe she did not like the design of the swimsuits and it has nothing to do with the color.

If the crime scene photos from 48 hours episode are correct and that actually is a picture of the crime scene, then the fact that the sandals are apart and not together could indicate she was interrupted by someone. So maybe someone came up from behind her and incapacitated her somehow then carried her out of the beach area. And that would explain the sandals being left on the beach.

Any type of geographical profiling is a guess based on statistical probability combined with some psychology. This case is not ideal for geographical profiling because you are not dealing with multiple points. I think that if the body was buried on the hillside in a shallow grave(and I think it was), then you have to consider the laziness principle. The laziness principle is that even murderers are lazy. They will bury bodies close to them because they do not want to take the time to travel. What is the difference if the body is a few miles away versus a few hundred miles away if the body is underground and cannot be seen anyway? So from a story I read when the ex-cop and the hunter found the body they went to the Ware, MA police department makes me think that is the closest jurisdiction. So my guess would be the murderer lives in the town of Ware. But again it is just a guess. This person could be some stalker Molly Bish had who lives in Warren and executed the crime using the cemetery as cover. And where her body was found was between Warren and Ware. The body was found in the small section of property jurisdiction, the very eastern side of Palmer that includes Whiskey Hill and is officially a part of the town of Palmer, MA. From a geography perspective I thought that was kind of unique. It was most likely a random spot chosen, but it makes you wonder if the person involved knows about town boundaries, etc.

The Elizabeth Smart case is a great case to use as an example of how you view the evidence. Someone entered the home and kidnapped their daughter. Now, in my opinion, you do not have to be any type of profiler to come up with one assumption that clearly has to be checked out and that assumption is that maybe the person has been inside the home before? So then you have all the family members write down anyone who may have been in their home and start eliminating people. But does this mean that it has to be someone who was in the home before? No. There are other cases where criminals have entered a person's home to commit a crime and they have never been there before.

Even how we view others is based on our interpretation. I see the picture of the boyfriend and the pictures of different hair colors and I see a goth girl. Molly Bish's boyfriend really looked goth to me. And psychology tells us that like people tend to attract to each other. So when I look at Molly Bish I see a goth girl who liked the color blue.

The fact that the white car has not been found does not mean that it is not the person in the white car. It just means that the white car suspect has not been found to either include or eliminate him as a suspect in Molly Bish's case. Molly's boyfriend was a teenager who does not seem like he could pull off this type of crime. Does that mean Molly Bish's boyfriend is NOT the murderer? And you could go on and on for every suspect in this case.

So who murdered Molly Bish? I don't know.

 

[somequestions]

Thats interesting about the color of the bathing suit. Im not saying its not the parks commissioner, its just that he is a real person, still at the job, so its hard to accuse him without real evidence. I was under the impression that they had ordered the orange suit the previous week, but in the meantime while waiting for the shipment she was wearing her own suit.

I would assume they took her hostage first it would have been difficult to carry her all that way. But anything is possible.

Yes, geographical profiling is a good way. The whiskey hill location is accessed on a backroad between warren and ware. The main road to ware would be rt. 9.
That would be in the general direction of someone driving to western mass or springfield. Its a hunting area, with a hunting club nearby, but also a place where people dump trash I guess. I would think that means its someone who knows the area and lives nearby, but far enough away from whiskey hill. so someone who live in ware or warren would be a good guess. Its kind of a "nowhere land" between the two towns, but popular with hunters, and known by people who live there who want a quick way to ware, especially coming from west warren.

Its true that its not always the case the the murderer knows the victim... but I think it would be statistically more likely... especially when you factor in all the secluded localized places in this case, which are not known by outsiders.

Molly wasn't goth, she was more of an athlete type. Her boyfriend, was closer to that profile but also hemp necklaces etc. I wouldn't say goth. Just general small town 90s mtv generation stuff.

It could totally be the white car guy... its just that it seems like it leads to alot of dead ends. If the murderer was so good at hiding his crime why would he reveal himself the day before of the crime? I just want to keep an open mind about it because the investigation up to this point has been totally focused on the guy in the white car and has been unsuccessful.

Do you think this is the result of a serial killer... or just some local psycho?

My impression of Molly Bish is based on a guess and by how people appeared to me during high school. If they wore lots of earrings and had wallets with a big chain, different colored hair they appeared goth to me. I was not goth so I cannot explain the culture. As for Molly Bish's favorite color, maybe it was some other color, but I thought it was blue. Family and friends would probably know a lot more about Molly Bish.

In an interview with a young reporter named Robert Way, part 2, when discussing finding Molly's body on Whiskey Hill in Palmer, MA, Mrs. Bish said that she was quite sure they had found Molly's body because of the swimsuit. The reason is that her and Molly had gone shopping for the swimsuit so she knew the style and color of swimsuit was unique to Molly. As for your statement about Molly Bish ordering an orange swimsuit that had not come in on time I did not know that. So maybe they needed this blue one until the orange one arrived?

I think you are a bit confused by what I wrote about my opinion of Molly Bish not being killed during the day. I only meant that, in my opinion, the killer, if it was someone known to the family, would want to wait until police and everyone else had settled in for that night. I think Molly Bish was killed the night of June 27, 2000. So in terms of investigation, asking suspects what they were doing the night of June 27, 2000 is just as important in terms of alibi as what they were doing during the period of time Molly Bish was kidnapped.

My geographical "profile" is a guess. And geographical profiling would not have helped this case since Molly Bish was a missing person for 3 years.

If the parks commissioner has an alibi, then he must not have killed Molly Bish. I suspect many people in the case. Who was the sand truck driver? What is his alibi? It is hard to not become emotional or emotionally attached to an idea about a case, but I agree you have to keep an open mind. I did not want it to appear I was accusing the parks commissioner. I was just discussing yet another theory of another suspect. If I were a detective, I would just see it as doing my job.

So to answer your last question, I think the answer is neither. Murderers can be anyone. They can be teachers, doctors, lawyers, police officers, priests, truck drivers, or any profession or type of person you can imagine. They can be your next door neighbor or your co-worker you talk to all the time at work.

Everyone is a suspect.

 

[somequestions]

I think what makes Molly Bish's case so sad is that there is very little you can do to eliminate suspects. Her body was found on the side of Whiskey Hill in Palmer, MA and may have been buried. There is a cemetery next to Commins Pond where she was kidnapped so maybe it was a cemetery worker that kidnapped and murdered her.

The parks commissioner certainly must have known the area around Commins Pond and would know Molly Bish's schedule so maybe he did it?

The boyfriend had a cut on his upper lip that he gave different explanations for to others. So maybe he did it?

For all anyone knows it could be someone from California who used to live or visit Warren, MA who kidnapped Molly Bish. And that is how they know the area. So maybe that person did it? Or the mystery white car guy who somehow is not local and does not show up when police search for 125 white cars in the area. Maybe the white car guy did it?

I actually came up with another theory based on the boyfriend having possibly killed Molly Bish. When they were searching for Molly Bish on the day she was kidnapped the boyfriend did not want to participate in the searches(source: Disappeared program). So I think maybe the reason he did not want to participate in the searches is because maybe he thought the scent dogs being used would hone in on him since in an abduction you would expect that maybe the victim's scent might rub off on the suspect. I do not know how scent dogs work so maybe I am wrong. I figure a teenager probably would not know either.

I came up with a personal story to describe how coming to conclusions can be difficult:

I was living in an apartment complex and I had an older female neighbor across from my apartment who lived with her two small dogs. I knew this because I casually observed her taking the two dogs in her car one day. The apartment was not on the ground floor and there was only one way in and out through the front door of the apartment. She and I were the only ones on the floor. One Friday morning I see that she had some packages delivered and they were put right in front of her door.

By Sunday morning the packages were still in front of the door and I could hear the dogs wimpering inside her apartment. So I asked myself how could she have taken the dogs out to go to the bathroom if the packages have not moved from in front of her door and her car is still sitting there in the parking lot too?

By Sunday night(nearly 2 1/2 days later) the packages were still in front of her apartment door and I could barely hear the dogs sound(I figured from weakness). I struggled with whether or not I should call the police to perform a wellness check. I told myself at the bare minimum I should knock on the door to see if she was there so I do not look foolish calling police. So after I took out the garbage I came back into the apartment complex and as I got to the top of the steps I saw that the packages were gone. And almost immediately after I noticed that the door opened. The woman left her apartment and walked down the steps. I felt so foolish that if she had waited literally another minute I was going to knock on her door to see if she was there and then if she did not answer the door call the police. Now I do not worry if I see the same type of scenario. I do not want to be the neighbor guy that cries wolf. I try not to overthink things now.

The point is simple. What you think(in this case, me thinking the neighbor lady was dead and her dogs were suffering inside) does not matter if you do not have any sort of real proof to back it up.

I got interested in this case because I saw it on television and I used to be a twice certified lifeguard in the early 2000's. As for Molly Bish's case, I am all out of theories.

 

[jaejae]

I will give this case a bump again. Here is Molly's sister in a recent You Tube video post:

 

[SAMS]

IMO Stanger is the strongest suspect in this case, he is an (eerily) close match to the drawing/description of the smoking man in the white car, lived in the area 20 years, avid hunter/fisherman (which fits the FBI profile of the killer) etc; perhaps he was driving his brothers white car (that fit the description of the car MB saw the day before) while he was scouting out Molly at the Pond. What do we know about his brother? Do we know of his current whereabouts or if he stayed behind in the area or moved with his brother to Florida? A mother's intuition is a serious thing, her gut told her to hang out with her daughter that day and the guy gave her the creeps....so very sad that he could possibly be the one that killed her. I wonder if the first aid kits were re-stocked after use, or? Could be Molly was checking the inventory of her kit when she was blind-sided by her attacker.....just a thought...MOO

 

[jaejae]

IMO Stanger is the strongest suspect in this case, he is an (eerily) close match to the drawing/description of the smoking man in the white car, lived in the area 20 years, avid hunter/fisherman (which fits the FBI profile of the killer) etc; perhaps he was driving his brothers white car (that fit the description of the car MB saw the day before) while he was scouting out Molly at the Pond. What do we know about his brother? Do we know of his current whereabouts or if he stayed behind in the area or moved with his brother to Florida? A mother's intuition is a serious thing, her gut told her to hang out with her daughter that day and the guy gave her the creeps....so very sad that he could possibly be the one that killed her. I wonder if the first aid kits were re-stocked after use, or? Could be Molly was checking the inventory of her kit when she was blind-sided by her attacker.....just a thought...MOO

My suspect is Ralph Jackson who I know is the Connecticut River Valley Killer but I agree he does not look that much like the suspect sketch.

 

[jaejae]

My suspect is Ralph Jackson who I know is the Connecticut River Valley Killer but I agree he does not look that much like the suspect sketch.

Jackson is also my suspect in the murder of Holly whose surname I admit I cannot spell offhand.

 

[jaejae]

Jackson is also my suspect in the murder of Holly whose surname I admit I cannot spell offhand.

Saying that Holly's murder upsets me and the letter between the two.

 

[somequestions]

The Molly Bish case is sad because of time.

Almost 3 years passed between when she went missing and when her remains were found. The suspect could be anyone who is associated in some way with Commins Pond or St. Paul Cemetery.

All anyone can do is engage in wild guessing and speculation because none of what is publicly known leads down any sort of path. Most of my previous posts about Molly Bish's case are just wild speculation. I think the suspect is someone who is connected to the land and locations in Molly Bish's case but again, that describes a lot of people.

At the end of the Downtown video posted above, her sister said that Molly was abducted in only 8 minutes. That is even more amazing when you consider Molly Bish's stuff was set up on the beach. So if this case is ever solved it is probably going to be because someone does not have a complete alibi for where they were from 10:00 am - 10:20am(approximately when the first mother showed up to Commins Pond beach with her kids).

 

[kstad1018]

IMO Stanger is the strongest suspect in this case, he is an (eerily) close match to the drawing/description of the smoking man in the white car, lived in the area 20 years, avid hunter/fisherman (which fits the FBI profile of the killer) etc; perhaps he was driving his brothers white car (that fit the description of the car MB saw the day before) while he was scouting out Molly at the Pond. What do we know about his brother? Do we know of his current whereabouts or if he stayed behind in the area or moved with his brother to Florida? A mother's intuition is a serious thing, her gut told her to hang out with her daughter that day and the guy gave her the creeps....so very sad that he could possibly be the one that killed her. I wonder if the first aid kits were re-stocked after use, or? Could be Molly was checking the inventory of her kit when she was blind-sided by her attacker.....just a thought...MOO

I agree with that, I do think it is Stanger as well, he is eerily close in resemblamce and the car as well AND he knew the area. There is no DNA in this case right? I know we have been seeing a spike in solved cold cases with the genealogy DNA.

 

[Crazyjster]

You came up with a lot of interesting points...
@somequestions

I remember this case very well, from the first day the news broke and said she was "Missing" (at the time speculating she had run away). I knew that was not the case and this was probably not going to end well...sadly I was right. Due to the nature of my job at the time, I followed this case closely. I actually believe this was a crime of opportunity. Maybe it was the person in the white car reported by her mother and seen in the vicinity the day before? I do not believe it was someone known to her and I believe due to how quickly it happened this person had done this before. I do not think he was "from" Warren but maybe staying there or nearby. I don't think any red herrings were involved...this was done quickly and the person wanted to get lost before getting caught.

I know there has been a POI...now deceased...it is possible the family has more info they can't go public with possibly?

I saw some question regarding the bathing suit color...I am pretty sure I am correct with the color on this (thinking back to lifeguarding) but the bathing suits are basically a uniform...red Speedo bathing suits...I think it was a requirement but maybe not...the towns are in charge and I didn't work in Warren. So it wasn't like she went to go pick out something fashionable...they turn faded orange over time from the sun drying them out. I have not watched any of the TV shows regarding this case or remakes...

 

[SAMS]

I agree with that, I do think it is Stanger as well, he is eerily close in resemblamce and the car as well AND he knew the area. There is no DNA in this case right? I know we have been seeing a spike in solved cold cases with the genealogy DNA.

Can't recall if there was DNA retrieved from the piece of bathing suit or not...

 

[somequestions]

You came up with a lot of interesting points...
@somequestions

I remember this case very well, from the first day the news broke and said she was "Missing" (at the time speculating she had run away). I knew that was not the case and this was probably not going to end well...sadly I was right. Due to the nature of my job at the time, I followed this case closely. I actually believe this was a crime of opportunity. Maybe it was the person in the white car reported by her mother and seen in the vicinity the day before? I do not believe it was someone known to her and I believe due to how quickly it happened this person had done this before. I do not think he was "from" Warren but maybe staying there or nearby. I don't think any red herrings were involved...this was done quickly and the person wanted to get lost before getting caught.

I know there has been a POI...now deceased...it is possible the family has more info they can't go public with possibly?

I saw some question regarding the bathing suit color...I am pretty sure I am correct with the color on this (thinking back to lifeguarding) but the bathing suits are basically a uniform...red Speedo bathing suits...I think it was a requirement but maybe not...the towns are in charge and I didn't work in Warren. So it wasn't like she went to go pick out something fashionable...they turn faded orange over time from the sun drying them out. I have not watched any of the TV shows regarding this case or remakes...

I think the one thing you have to remember with Molly Bish's case is that she was a missing person for almost 3 years. So looking at Molly Bish's case in June 2000 would be different than looking at it in June 2003.

I thought, because I think the body was buried, that she was murdered by someone she knew. I also thought because she did not choose a swimsuit from the park commissioner's book that she wanted to get her own swimsuit because she liked the color blue. Is that why? I don't know. It is a question for her mom.

My suspect in the case has always been a toss-up between someone familiar with the landscape surrounding Commin's Pond, whether that be the parks commissioner or the sand truck driver or a cemetery worker. And there will always be the unknown, especially the white car guy.

I think one of the most interesting aspects of Molly Bish's case is how outsiders like myself look at the case. One assumption I have seen constantly that I have made as well as others is that Molly Bish was kidnapped where her lifeguard stuff was set up. Do we really know this to be a fact? How do we know she was not away from her stuff near the bathroom or some other spot on the beach?

If you look at the case from that perspective then the open first aid kit becomes rather interesting. Again, we assume it was Molly Bish that opened the first aid kit.

According to another poster in a previous post on this page, the parks commissioner was nearby painting a fence with a man named Mr. Tatro. So assuming that Mr. Tatro never saw the parks commissioner leave between 10 - 10:20 am, the irony is that it seems like the parks commissioner is the only one who has an airtight alibi for not having been involved in Molly Bish's disappearance. You cannot paint a fence and kidnap someone at the same time.

Time is the important aspect of Molly Bish's case. If her case has taught me, or hopefully missing person's investigators something, it is that you should always take the approach that something bad may have happened even if it did not. And always check out every story no matter how true it seems. You never know. Time matters. Or else the paint dries.

 

[SAMS]

I think the one thing you have to remember with Molly Bish's case is that she was a missing person for almost 3 years. So looking at Molly Bish's case in June 2000 would be different than looking at it in June 2003.

I thought, because I think the body was buried, that she was murdered by someone she knew. I also thought because she did not choose a swimsuit from the park commissioner's book that she wanted to get her own swimsuit because she liked the color blue. Is that why? I don't know. It is a question for her mom.

My suspect in the case has always been a toss-up between someone familiar with the landscape surrounding Commin's Pond, whether that be the parks commissioner or the sand truck driver or a cemetery worker. And there will always be the unknown, especially the white car guy.

I think one of the most interesting aspects of Molly Bish's case is how outsiders like myself look at the case. One assumption I have seen constantly that I have made as well as others is that Molly Bish was kidnapped where her lifeguard stuff was set up. Do we really know this to be a fact? How do we know she was not away from her stuff near the bathroom or some other spot on the beach?

If you look at the case from that perspective then the open first aid kit becomes rather interesting. Again, we assume it was Molly Bish that opened the first aid kit.

According to another poster in a previous post on this page, the parks commissioner was nearby painting a fence with a man named Mr. Tatro. So assuming that Mr. Tatro never saw the parks commissioner leave between 10 - 10:20 am, the irony is that it seems like the parks commissioner is the only one who has an airtight alibi for not having been involved in Molly Bish's disappearance. You cannot paint a fence and kidnap someone at the same time.

Time is the important aspect of Molly Bish's case. If her case has taught me, or hopefully missing person's investigators something, it is that you should always take the approach that something bad may have happened even if it did not. And always check out every story no matter how true it seems. You never know. Time matters. Or else the paint dries.

Great post. And point. How do we know she was “attacked” at her guard spot? She could have been anywhere at the pond.

 

[Crazyjster]

Very true she could have been anywhere...but at that time of day, although there were people "around' it is essentially empty. I was guarding probably 10 years earlier and you went on duty (before people really showed up) you would get situated...make sure you had your stuff, water, things you might need ...so if she opwope the first-aid kit just to check it...(it sho6 h6 been stocked already but maybe she needed something) or it was a rouse who knows? And who knows if it was tested for prints but it's doubtful anyone elses but hers would be on it?

What would be inereintere now is if they could get DNA off of anything tecoverd in 2003 or if everything was too destroyed from being out in the elements for 3 years since testing has come a lot more precise?

 

[somequestions]

Very true she could have been anywhere...but at that time of day, although there were people "around' it is essentially empty. I was guarding probably 10 years earlier and you went on duty (before people really showed up) you would get situated...make sure you had your stuff, water, things you might need ...so if she opwope the first-aid kit just to check it...(it sho6 h6 been stocked already but maybe she needed something) or it was a rouse who knows? And who knows if it was tested for prints but it's doubtful anyone elses but hers would be on it?

What would be inereintere now is if they could get DNA off of anything tecoverd in 2003 or if everything was too destroyed from being out in the elements for 3 years since testing has come a lot more precise?

It is always interesting to hear from others who have actually lifeguarded in the area. So you think Molly Bish opened the first aid kit? It really was not the first aid kit that I found interesting as much as it was that all of her stuff around the first aid kit seemed to be undisturbed. 48 hours has the crime scene photo. I think that may be the crime scene photo but I cannot be sure.

I don't know who murdered Molly Bish. Suspects that are obvious like the people that were out at Commins Pond that day tend to be easier to theorize about. But I agree that accusing anyone without proof is wrong. Obvious suspects would have been checked out thoroughly by police. Did the parks commissioner smell like paint? Did the sand truck driver leave the area after dropping the sand? Did the garbage man stop by to pick up the trash? Do all the cemetery workers have alibis? I have a lot of questions. We do not have the same information as police. So the answers to a lot of my questions are I don't know.

 

[somequestions]

I wanted to clarify something about my previous post about why I think the open first aid kit is important.

Back, I don't know how many years ago, I emailed Molly Bish's mother to ask about an important fact in the case. I wondered why if Molly Bish had been wearing a whistle why she did not use it while she was being abducted. I think I referred to the Haunting Evidence episode about the case. Her mother wrote back and said that Molly Bish had never put on the whistle, that one of the mothers who had gone out to the beach went into Molly's bookbag and took out the whistle to use it. I think she wrote that the Unsolved Mysteries segment about the case explained this point. I still have not seen this Unsolved Mysteries segment. I know that on the show Disappeared the private investigator said "the whistle was wound around the chair", but maybe he is referring to after the mother at the beach took it out of Molly's bag?

Getting back to the point about the open first aid kit, on the episode of 48 hours the woman who first arrived at the beach said that Molly's bookbag was on the bench.

So I could not understand why someone would open the first aid kit to do inventory before they were fully set-up with their lifeguard area? It made it seem like Molly Bish set up her chair, then was walking back and forth from the bench to her chair. Maybe she was interrupted?

I know this is focusing on a small point since someone could have faked an injury and Molly may have had to tend to that person immediately, but I really think Molly Bish was abducted while she was setting up her stuff.

 

[Crazyjster]

I wanted to clarify something about my previous post about why I think the open first aid kit is important.

Back, I don't know how many years ago, I emailed Molly Bish's mother to ask about an important fact in the case. I wondered why if Molly Bish had been wearing a whistle why she did not use it while she was being abducted. I think I referred to the Haunting Evidence episode about the case. Her mother wrote back and said that Molly Bish had never put on the whistle, that one of the mothers who had gone out to the beach went into Molly's bookbag and took out the whistle to use it. I think she wrote that the Unsolved Mysteries segment about the case explained this point. I still have not seen this Unsolved Mysteries segment. I know that on the show Disappeared the private investigator said "the whistle was wound around the chair", but maybe he is referring to after the mother at the beach took it out of Molly's bag?

Getting back to the point about the open first aid kit, on the episode of 48 hours the woman who first arrived at the beach said that Molly's bookbag was on the bench.

So I could not understand why someone would open the first aid kit to do inventory before they were fully set-up with their lifeguard area? It made it seem like Molly Bish set up her chair, then was walking back and forth from the bench to her chair. Maybe she was interrupted?

I know this is focusing on a small point since someone could have faked an injury and Molly may have had to tend to that person immediately, but I really think Molly Bish was abducted while she was setting up her stuff.