CANADA Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough, Ont, 19 June 1990 #2

[Track]

....and further....he also told the investigators something to the effect of....."I have already given you everything you need." The prison interview is on youtube. Chilling to watch, but supports the aforementioned profile.

 

[eyesonly]

Sorry edited message wrong

 

[Snively]

If Bernardo was involved he would have told Corrections Canada long ago to get something he wanted.

Also if you were to move a body after it was buried you're bound to leave some bones behind. Even the police make that mistake and they know what they're doing. No way would it be on a piece of property owned by the family.

But a certain engineering student at the time with a connection to a civil engineering company that had jobs all around the area at the time would have perfect access to a job site where no one would ever notice a freshly dug hole the next day.

 

[Track]

Does anyone know whether LE had any physical evidence from the auto that went with the theory it had been taken to Port Perry area or to Col Danforth park? Specifically, I want to know whether LE noted any clay, or gravel or other material on the tires or body, or inside the auto.

 

[eyesonly]

Does anyone know whether LE had any physical evidence from the auto that went with the theory it had been taken to Port Perry area or to Col Danforth park? Specifically, I want to know whether LE noted any clay, or gravel or other material on the tires or body, or inside the auto.

The answer is, no evidence, to both Port Perry and Col Danforth Park.

 

[eyesonly]

Does anyone know whether LE had any physical evidence from the auto that went with the theory it had been taken to Port Perry area or to Col Danforth park? Specifically, I want to know whether LE noted any clay, or gravel or other material on the tires or body, or inside the auto.

CFS determined sandy, gravely type material on vehicle and wheels was consistent with what the car was found parked on.
ROM (Royal Ontario Museum) determined no useful evidence of flora or fauna to determine any specific place of origin.

 

[Snively]

Regarding nothing but the same material from the scene the car was found on being found, it lends more credence to two people putting a body in the back seat of the car and taking it out and then moving it to a hiding spot rather than driving directly to a location rather than driving off road to the dumping spot.

 

[Track]

Potential places to hide a body in SE Scarborough:
A) in one of the swamps, and they still exist
B) Dump over the Scarb bluffs. Behind & adjacent to PB's high school on Guildwood Pkwy are numerous areas w easy access, by car & then drag, to the cliff edge of the Bluffs
C) The Guild Inn property.
D) Areas around UT Scarb campus including Col Danforth Park
E) The Rouge Park, Pickering. Largest urban greenspace in N.A.
Of these, only the Guild Inn property would lend itself to a search not involving extreme effort. Any current renovations or excavations to it should be supervised by investigators.

 

[Snively]

The swamp areas or something along the Rouge River are definitely a potential area.

Col. Danforth park was extensively searched and the Guild Inn property has probably everyone who is a photography enthusiast crawling all over it the last 25 plus years. The Bluffs are a possibility but have a lot of foot traffic throughout.

Anything is possible but the first two, though searched at the time and visited over the past nearly three decades, would be two of the most likely areas.

 

[eyesonly]

Track said:
""Any current renovations or excavations to it should be supervised by investigators.""

--------- TPS will not spend another second on the case. They had convicted "their" man, and that's the end of it for them, unless they exonerate RB and are forced to reopen the case.
And they will not spend another dime looking for EB.
------- PB, the Scarborough rapist and not EB's brother, is a red herring in my opinion based on research.

 

[Woodland]

Regardless of who did this or how many people involved, shouldn't there be at least one foot/shoe/boot print in the small amount of blood found on the rear floor mat(s)?

Only 1 set of drag marks were found that went into the car, giving the appearance EB was bleeding while being placed in the car. It's not possible imo for anyone to stand outside of the vehicle and place someone in the back seat. A foot would be required inside the vehicle for leverage and the use of the persons knee. And since EB was not in the car, for those that believe she was at some point, she then had to have been taken out. Again, there had to be a foot/shoe/boot print to do this.

Something not where it should be at a crime scene is evidence imo.

 

[Snively]

Regardless of who did this or how many people involved, shouldn't there be at least one foot/shoe/boot print in the small amount of blood found on the rear floor mat(s)?

Only 1 set of drag marks were found that went into the car, giving the appearance EB was bleeding while being placed in the car. It's not possible imo for anyone to stand outside of the vehicle and place someone in the back seat. A foot would be required inside the vehicle for leverage and the use of the persons knee. And since EB was not in the car, for those that believe she was at some point, she then had to have been taken out. Again, there had to be a foot/shoe/boot print to do this.

Something not where it should be at a crime scene is evidence imo.

Putting the body into the car may not show a foot print if the blood was still contained in what she was wrapped in (likely the blanket). If there was a plastic bag or garbage bag wrapped around the wound it would help it even more.

Taking her out someone likely got a hold of the head end and dragged the body out.

Putting a body in by yourself is very, very difficult and likely wasn't done, but the blood wouldn't be there at that point which would likely explain the lack of any mark in the blood. Taking the body out would be easier but I am surprised there wasn't blood found on the back of the seats (that I can remember). Tends to make me think there was a plastic bag over the wound as well and blood leaked out when the body was being dragged out.

But I still don't buy one person did this moving all on their own.

 

[Woodland]

I'll have to disagree Snively -

There were drag marks going into the car - drag marks in what? Blood? Dirt? Idk. The drag mark direction is from the forensic evaluation of the vehicle after it was found. I have lost my book on this case, but this has already been posted on the thread(s).

There were no drag marks exiting the vehicle. If EB was dragged from the vehicle, then without a doubt there had to be drag marks in blood moving outward. But that is missing.

I'll have to stick with a staged scene.

 

[eyesonly]

Fwiw:
The blood expert who testified regarding the movement of a "large bloody object" being dragged into the car, only viewed photographs of the car provided to him and did not inspect the car personally.

 

[Snively]

Fwiw:
The blood expert who testified regarding the movement of a "large bloody object" being dragged into the car, only viewed photographs of the car provided to him and did not inspect the car personally.

The drag mark was apparently a scuff on the door sill so you would even have a hard time deciding whether it was going in or out of the car. Especially from a photo.

Somebody obviously wiped the car down as well, so it seems fair they noticed a blood mark on plastic or the back of a seat and wiped that off but missed a dirt scuff on a plastic door sill.

If the family was part of the disappearance they could have just left the car near any major transportation hub and the assumption would be she just ran away. No, the car left at the body shop was because somebody needed something to transport a body right away and come back to get their car. If the family was involved why would they want to make it look like a murder which would be investigated. Just park the car somewhere around the subway line or something and the assumption would be she just took off and left and bought a train ticket out of town.

The police would hardly look at something like that because she was an adult.

 

[eyesonly]

The drag mark was apparently a scuff on the door sill so you would even have a hard time deciding whether it was going in or out of the car. Especially from a photo.

--------there was also some blood on the passenger door sill which the expert felt showed direction into the car.
But one could read his testimony as combining his view of the photographs with the assumption that a body had been in the car therefore it had to have been dragged in. And he testified that he could not see any clear evidence of the "large bloody object" being "dragged back out"
As you say snively "especially from a photo".
Who knows what evidence he would have been able to conclude had he examined the car personally.

Somebody obviously wiped the car down as well, so it seems fair they noticed a blood mark on plastic or the back of a seat and wiped that off but missed a dirt scuff on a plastic door sill.

-------- I don't see it as "obvious" that somebody wiped down the car. Absolutely possible, but there were several prints inside the vehicle but they were smudged or overlapped too much, (not sure if that's the right description).
Fwiw:
The one CFS identification guy that testified was a work of art. He took the gear shift knob off and carried it resting on his forefinger and middle finger to the glue box for fingerprinting. The only prints on the knob were HIS OWN. Which means he never wore gloves.
There was also a barrette under the driver's seat that was in a photograph in evidence, and the defense lawyer asked about it and this CFS guy says oh he didn't have it on his items list from the car and it must have gotten lost somewhere because he didn't have a record of it.


If the family was part of the disappearance they could have just left the car near any major transportation hub and the assumption would be she just ran away. No, the car left at the body shop was because somebody needed something to transport a body right away and come back to get their car. If the family was involved why would they want to make it look like a murder which would be investigated. Just park the car somewhere around the subway line or something and the assumption would be she just took off and left and bought a train ticket out of town.

----------- I agree that if the family was involved that planting of the blood doesn't really make sense because it brings immediate attention to foul play and a good set of Detectives would start with the family to eliminate them.
Which didn't happen in this case but the family wouldn't have known that.
------- having said that, the scene does not exclude one family member from arguing and accidentally killing EB.
This individual may have panicked and covered it up the best he could that night.
Any other family members that may have suspected something like this happened may not have wanted to specifically know the details but did whatever they could to protect this person and forward any help to LE in putting RB away for the crime.

The police would hardly look at something like that because she was an adult.

 

[Woodland]

Agree that s/he and or all family members might have panicked during a cover-up.

The evidence (both present and absent) is open to interpretation and could use a do-over considering advanced knowledge and technology. And imo, someone should really take ground penetrating radar to where Mrs B was seen digging the night before reporting EB missing. Mrs B's story of all that happened the day EB went missing revolves around her preparing for and digging on her property.

 

[Track]

Question for Eyes Only. You mentioned that in your opinion is PBT (Teal) is a red herring based on research. Can you elaborate on that research? Or is it the BFI factors you have already discussed in this forum?

 

[Track]

Regarding Guild Inn: A fire Dec 25, 2008 destroyed the historic & long derelict "Studio Building" on the Guild Inn grounds. IMO that must have been arson due to the date. No workers would have been present on a holiday. Just a hunch. KHT was a free by then. I have no historic map showing Studio's location. Can anyone help zero in on its location?

 

[eyesonly]

Question for Eyes Only. You mentioned that in your opinion is PBT (Teal) is a red herring based on research. Can you elaborate on that research? Or is it the BFI factors you have already discussed in this forum?

Myself another gentleman have looked very hard at Bernardo but have found absolutely no evidence that he was involved in EB's disappearance or knew her at all besides one possible fleeting hello years before.
Could we be wrong, of course, absolutely. And he is never fully checked off the list so to speak.