CA CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 Mar 2018 #4

[fridaybaker]

I've gone back and forth on whether or not Devonte was in the vehicle. I guess there's nothing concrete pointing to the fact that he wasn't, and since he hasn't turned up since, I really have to think he isn't alive. I just can't see a reason for anyone to keep him "hidden", although I know some people here have pointed out that he could have been left with "off the grid" types, who may not like LE, "authority", "establishment", etc. (Although the "mothers" sure didn't mind making use of LE with the very public Devonte photos.)

Now, though, I'm sort of on the "Devonte wasn't in the vehicle" wagon. It's such a coincidence that nothing was found -not an item of clothing that was thought to have belonged to him, not a foot, such as Hannah's, nothing. Also, I think Devonte was a very singular member of this "family": He was always the focus, in such a way as he almost seemed like a family pet -the family mascot. Per Jennifer's own admission, she'd never felt connected to anyone the way she had to Devonte. That's incredibly strong language, considered her relationship with Sarah. I think she would have felt utterly betrayed and devastated if she realized that he was at the neighbors talking about the family, revealing problems. It would have been the ultimate betrayal, to me.

A very little other piece of information also sort of points me to this: The fact of the planning, and the cohesion within the group. It wasn't just Jennifer's plan. Sarah went in to buy Benedryl. These things were thought out and researched. That just gives a little more indication to me that carrying out a separate plan for Devonte is a little more likely.

Just some thoughts.

 

[staunchcharacter]

Sorry if this is off-topic at this point, but how many bananas did she buy? TIA.

It is hard to tell from the photo. It just looks like a bunch of at least 4 and likely more:

 

[staunchcharacter]

The kids were taken away from a birth aunt and quickly adopted out. That aunt would have known distinguishing features. She also would have had photos.

The woman is identified as Jennifer's aunt, not the children's biological aunt.

 

[staunchcharacter]

There's no way authorities could be saying this is normal. 82 pounds for a 14-year-old girl at 5'6"?
Look at Markis' weight for his dimensions. And he'd have been pretty much finished growing.

I agree! Every autopsy report for the children found describes their appearance as "well developed, well-nourished." Out of curiosity, I looked into how healthy these heights and weights are and found the following using the BMI child and adolescent calculator on www.cdc.gov:

Markis
Age (at measurement): 19 years 8 months
Sex: boy
Height: 68 inches
Weight: 124 pounds
Based on the height and weight entered, the BMI is 18.9, placing the BMI-for-age at the 4th percentile for boys aged 19 years 8 months. This child is underweight and should be seen by a healthcare provider for further assessment to determine possible causes of underweight.

Hannah ***I don't know where they got these figures from and the weight is clearly incorrect***
Age (at measurement): 16 years 1 month
Sex: girl
Height: 48 inches
Weight: 95 pounds
Based on the height and weight entered, the BMI is 29, placing the BMI-for-age at the 95th percentile for girls aged 16 years 1 month. This child has obesity and may have weight-related health problems. She should be seen by a healthcare provider for further assessment.

Devonte ***This is based off the estimates from the missing poster for Devonte***
Age (at measurement): 16 years 5 months
Sex: boy
Height: 61 inches
Weight: 90 pounds
Based on the height and weight entered, the BMI is 17, placing the BMI-for-age at the 3rd percentile for boys aged 16 years 5 months. This child is underweight and should be seen by a healthcare provider for further assessment to determine possible causes of underweight

Abigail
Age (at measurement): 14 years 3 months
Sex: girl
Height: 66 inches
Weight: 82 pounds
This child or teenager has a BMI that is very far from the healthy weight range. Please check the accuracy of the information you entered. If the age, weight, and height values are correct, the following shows the calculated values for this child.
Based on the height and weight entered, the BMI is 13.2, placing the BMI-for-age at less than the 1st percentile for girls aged 14 years 3 months. This child is underweight and should be seen by a healthcare provider for further assessment to determine possible causes of underweight.

Jeremiah
Age (at measurement): 14 years 1 month
Sex: boy
Height: 66 inches
Weight: 97 pounds
Based on the height and weight entered, the BMI is 15.7, placing the BMI-for-age at the 3rd percentile for boys aged 14 years 1 month. This child is underweight and should be seen by a healthcare provider for further assessment to determine possible causes of underweight.

Ciera
Age (at measurement): 12 years 11 months
Sex: girl
Height: 59 inches
Weight: 73 pounds
Based on the height and weight entered, the BMI is 14.7, placing the BMI-for-age at the 2nd percentile for girls aged 12 years 11 months. This child is underweight and should be seen by a healthcare provider for further assessment to determine possible causes of underweight.

Hardly well-nourished, imo.

 

[staunchcharacter]

<snip>Sarah went in to buy Benedryl. These things were thought out and researched. That just gives a little more indication to me that carrying out a separate plan for Devonte is a little more likely.

I've seen news reports that say Sarah purchased it and news reports that state Jen did. Not sure if there is an official word on that ..

 

[Doghairrules]

Sarah was an inch shorter than Abigail and weighted almost twice as much. I have to say, I've never known anyone who is 5'6" and weighed 82 lbs. Three pounds less and she'd be in the 70 pound range. It's almost unbelievable. And there's Jennifer, at only 5'7", who weighed over 200. If this all doesn't paint a picture, I don't know what does.

I have a cousin who has anorexia. She is 5’2” and weighs 80 lbs soaking wet.

 

[Doghairrules]

I agree! Every autopsy report for the children found describes their appearance as "well developed, well-nourished." Out of curiosity, I looked into how healthy these heights and weights are and found the following using the BMI child and adolescent calculator on www.cdc.gov:

Markis
Age (at measurement): 19 years 8 months
Sex: boy
Height: 68 inches
Weight: 124 pounds
Based on the height and weight entered, the BMI is 18.9, placing the BMI-for-age at the 4th percentile for boys aged 19 years 8 months. This child is underweight and should be seen by a healthcare provider for further assessment to determine possible causes of underweight.

Hannah ***I don't know where they got these figures from and the weight is clearly incorrect***
Age (at measurement): 16 years 1 month
Sex: girl
Height: 48 inches
Weight: 95 pounds
Based on the height and weight entered, the BMI is 29, placing the BMI-for-age at the 95th percentile for girls aged 16 years 1 month. This child has obesity and may have weight-related health problems. She should be seen by a healthcare provider for further assessment.

Devonte ***This is based off the estimates from the missing poster for Devonte***
Age (at measurement): 16 years 5 months
Sex: boy
Height: 61 inches
Weight: 90 pounds
Based on the height and weight entered, the BMI is 17, placing the BMI-for-age at the 3rd percentile for boys aged 16 years 5 months. This child is underweight and should be seen by a healthcare provider for further assessment to determine possible causes of underweight

Abigail
Age (at measurement): 14 years 3 months
Sex: girl
Height: 66 inches
Weight: 82 pounds
This child or teenager has a BMI that is very far from the healthy weight range. Please check the accuracy of the information you entered. If the age, weight, and height values are correct, the following shows the calculated values for this child.
Based on the height and weight entered, the BMI is 13.2, placing the BMI-for-age at less than the 1st percentile for girls aged 14 years 3 months. This child is underweight and should be seen by a healthcare provider for further assessment to determine possible causes of underweight.

Jeremiah
Age (at measurement): 14 years 1 month
Sex: boy
Height: 66 inches
Weight: 97 pounds
Based on the height and weight entered, the BMI is 15.7, placing the BMI-for-age at the 3rd percentile for boys aged 14 years 1 month. This child is underweight and should be seen by a healthcare provider for further assessment to determine possible causes of underweight.

Ciera
Age (at measurement): 12 years 11 months
Sex: girl
Height: 59 inches
Weight: 73 pounds
Based on the height and weight entered, the BMI is 14.7, placing the BMI-for-age at the 2nd percentile for girls aged 12 years 11 months. This child is underweight and should be seen by a healthcare provider for further assessment to determine possible causes of underweight.

Hardly well-nourished, imo.

I wish we could talk to the medical examiner about this. I know they were only establishing the causes of death and who was responsible, but I wish there was an extensive investigation into the lives these previous children led and how the moms got Away with it for so long.

 

[Steelhead]

I've gone back and forth on whether or not Devonte was in the vehicle. I guess there's nothing concrete pointing to the fact that he wasn't, and since he hasn't turned up since, I really have to think he isn't alive. I just can't see a reason for anyone to keep him "hidden", although I know some people here have pointed out that he could have been left with "off the grid" types, who may not like LE, "authority", "establishment", etc. (Although the "mothers" sure didn't mind making use of LE with the very public Devonte photos.)

Now, though, I'm sort of on the "Devonte wasn't in the vehicle" wagon. It's such a coincidence that nothing was found -not an item of clothing that was thought to have belonged to him, not a foot, such as Hannah's, nothing. Also, I think Devonte was a very singular member of this "family": He was always the focus, in such a way as he almost seemed like a family pet -the family mascot. Per Jennifer's own admission, she'd never felt connected to anyone the way she had to Devonte. That's incredibly strong language, considered her relationship with Sarah. I think she would have felt utterly betrayed and devastated if she realized that he was at the neighbors talking about the family, revealing problems. It would have been the ultimate betrayal, to me.

A very little other piece of information also sort of points me to this: The fact of the planning, and the cohesion within the group. It wasn't just Jennifer's plan. Sarah went in to buy Benedryl. These things were thought out and researched. That just gives a little more indication to me that carrying out a separate plan for Devonte is a little more likely.

Just some thoughts.

Good thoughts. Didn't Devonte go to the neighbors the night before to ask for food? I think the neighbor said, in her opinion, he was asking for non-perishable types of food. As if maybe he was going to run away.

Maybe he got away!

 

[staunchcharacter]

I wish we could talk to the medical examiner about this. I know they were only establishing the causes of death and who was responsible, but I wish there was an extensive investigation into the lives these previous children led and how the moms got Away with it for so long.

If only we could have our own Q&A. I think the best outcome is that hopefully this will influence new laws to protect children when parents move to a new state. Unfortunately, we have a very, very long was to go in this country in regards to foster care and CPS.

 

[human]

As far as CPS, parents are some of the ones who stop anything. Children are still seen as possessions.

And foster care is super expensive, hence the idea of keeping families together. I sincerely doubt it is based on much but money.

I was in a group of different people who worked with children in different capacities. The group was led by a lawmaker.

After a very clever presentation, he came up with the family reunification idea. He had zero experience with anything to do with children.But he was a fiscal expert.

When it was all over, I was astounded on how cleverly he twisted everything

 

[Doghairrules]

The Broken Harts podcast did a wrap up episode that dropped today (I think). One thing I missed in the coroners inquest is that they stopped and bought 8 toothbrushes. Also, they said Sarah pretty much googled ways to die the entire day Sunday.

They also talk to a listener who grew up in similar, but less tragic, circumstances. That was interesting as well.

And at the end, I’m still as furious and heartbroken as I was the day I found out about this horrible case.

 

[Breezie]

The Broken Harts podcast did a wrap up episode that dropped today (I think). One thing I missed in the coroners inquest is that they stopped and bought 8 toothbrushes. Also, they said Sarah pretty much googled ways to die the entire day Sunday.

They also talk to a listener who grew up in similar, but less tragic, circumstances. That was interesting as well.

And at the end, I’m still as furious and heartbroken as I was the day I found out about this horrible case.

They scripted and staged a lot of things, in their home, and in their lives. There is no reason that they would have thought that anyone would notice how many toothbrushes they bought and get eight instead of seven. Sadly, if they got eight toothbrushes, it was probably because there were eight people in the car.

 

[Doghairrules]

They scripted and staged a lot of things, in their home, and in their lives. There is no reason that they would have thought that anyone would notice how many toothbrushes they bought and get eight instead of seven. Sadly, if they got eight toothbrushes, it was probably because there were eight people in the car.

I agree. And it’s all just so heartbreaking.

 

[RickshawFan]

I'm thinking they could have killed Devonte when they caught him with food that must have come from somewhere else. Or they could have killed his dog, and that caused him to run away. I don't get it that they left the house because they were afraid of CPS. They'd always been able to get away with it before. No real consequences. I'm thinking they left suddenly because they did something else criminal and assumed LE had caught up with them for that, not scrutinized by child services.
They could very well have done something to Devonte. And the other kids could have witnessed it.
By the way, they complained about the attention they got after Devonte's hug with that police officer in the famous photo. I think he hugged the police officer not because he was giving free hugs, but because he NEEDED a hug. And the tears were from getting a hug for himself.

 

[FrostOwl]

I don't get it that they left the house because they were afraid of CPS. They'd always been able to get away with it before. No real consequences. I'm thinking they left suddenly because they did something else criminal and assumed LE had caught up with them for that, not scrutinized by child services.

Or the adults had realised that they could no longer expect to keep the oldest kids from telling the truth about their situation to the child services, especially when the neighbours told what they had seen.

 

[janewall]

The oldest 'kid' was legally an adult. Jen and Sarah would no longer have been eligible for a subsidy for Markis, and may have been cheating the system on him.

Hannah also was about to age out of the system.

Even with an abusive and isolated childhood, one or both may have been making noises about striking out on their own. Hannah had sought outside help. Devonte was acting out and going behind their backs to confide in outsiders.

Jen and Sarah were all about control. They treated these children as possessions over which they had the absolute right of determination, and they could not face losing those possessions or being betrayed by them. As possessions, the children had no rights of their own. Jen and Sarah thought their very existence belonged to them as parents. The idea of eventual self-determination, independence, normal adulthood was absolutely inconceivable to them.

And they felt it was absolutely their 'right' to end the existence of their possessions if and when they wanted, just as it is the perceived right of healthy, well-adjusted adults to discard or destroy an unwanted or obsolete piece of clothing or furniture.

What a sick combination of narcissism and authoritarian family structure. Social workers and CPS are all well and good, but psychological screening of pre-adoptive parents should be far more stringent than it is, and performed by mental health professionals. I know this would make the process more expensive, more arduous, and more time-consuming for an overburdened system, but it may be the only way to safeguard against such wildly unsuitable 'parents' having helpless children placed with them. Those who have no parenting skills, and no inclination to nurture, protect, or aid the development of any living creature other than themselves should never clear the hurdle of pre-adoptive screening. We need a way to eliminate from consideration anyone who wants toys or accessories, not children.

MOO.

 

[FrostOwl]

Social workers and CPS are all well and good, but psychological screening of pre-adoptive parents should be far more stringent than it is, and performed by mental health professionals. I know this would make the process more expensive, more arduous, and more time-consuming for an overburdened system, but it may be the only way to safeguard against such wildly unsuitable 'parents' having helpless children placed with them. Those who have no parenting skills, and no inclination to nurture, protect, or aid the development of any living creature other than themselves should never clear the hurdle of pre-adoptive screening. We need a way to eliminate from consideration anyone who wants toys or accessories, not children.

MOO.

This sounds very similar to how the adoption process here in Sweden works. It takes time to be approved as adoptive parents, there is an obligatory parental education, the social authorities where they live have to give their permission to adopt, a healthcare examination is done, and so on. It takes usually between 1 - 3 years from the beginning until an adoptive child is home, as most adoptions in Sweden are international. National adoptions are usually only about adopting the children of their partner, these are easier to do.

 

[RickshawFan]

Or the adults had realised that they could no longer expect to keep the oldest kids from telling the truth about their situation to the child services, especially when the neighbours told what they had seen.

They might not have known this, though. Didn't CPS knock, and there was no response? So they left? How would Jen have known what it was about? Did she even have a way to know what agency it was? Suppose it was the gas meter reader....

 

[travelbug]

They might not have known this, though. Didn't CPS knock, and there was no response? So they left? How would Jen have known what it was about? Did she even have a way to know what agency it was? Suppose it was the gas meter reader....

Even though I know it's only wishful thinking, I still keep hoping that Devonte and his dog took off as soon as he received the food from the neighbor. He knew he couldn't hide the food at home and he also verified that CPS was contacted. He may have thought he had done what he could for his brothers and sisters and anticipated his own life was in danger. When CPS knocked they would have rounded up all of the children and realized Devonte was missing. They may have believed he was in their custody and their lifetime of lies had caught up to them. They knew they had to hide and set out without a plan. They may not have expected the story to hit the news as quickly as it did and when they found out they felt they wouldn't be able to "hide" anywhere. They started to plan their final "dramatic" departure.

Yes, I know it's less than 5% likely that happened, but it allows me to hope. And yes, for those who will ask I believe that a new identity would be used to protect Devonte from continuing his life as a public showpiece.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Had thought this early on and havent looked at this case in a while

I Just read the 1 yr article and it dawned on me again......more clearly this time, very clearly...........they killed Devonte (elsewhere/rage or soemthing) had to get rid of the body the reason they left, maybe strangled him, no blood or struggle in the home, unless cleaned up of course...........that's why they later all went over the cliff, rather think she was possibly drunk or medicated and it was an accident than know they murdered that poor child

In her/their mind anyway

still so very sad to me

JUST My opinion of course