Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #91

[OldLadyBlues]

Hi All,

I’m from Australia, it just so happens I’m in Law enforcement and have experience with the Policing side of Homicides.

I can across this case from a podcast a few weeks ago, since then I’ve followed along to see how it progresses.

I’ve read a lot of responses from contributors on this thread. Fortunately I can clear a few things up, but unfortunately most of the cyber detectives are over analysing.

Remember this, ‘finding’ out who did this crime is half the process. The main process is ensuring a criminal conviction for police.

Therefore, the general public and even the victims families ARE NOT entitled or should be presented with evidence or possible suspects under any circumstances.

All evidence released, including sketches, audio, video, and in this case car siting, is to be done with a specific outcome in mind. e.g produce leads, further evidence, new suspects etc.

I saw people post, “why not release all the audio?”

Well... why, it obviously won’t help produce new leads. And/or the remaining audio evidence could taint jury if released. I understand you want to here and see the evidence, but bluntly, you have no right and all general public are to be treated as possible suspects/witnesses. Remember you aren’t trained investigators.

Finally, I watched the press conference and found it fascinating.

The press conference was directly aimed at speaking to the killer. My guess would be they have a short list of suspects or may even know 98% who it is.

Everything said in that press con was scripted by a FBI Profiler. It is designed to agitate and provoke the killer in to acting differently or saying something to someone that makes them stand out.

I’d also guess they may even have suspects under physical surveillance or recording devices.

Remember again, ITS ALL ABOUT THE CONVICTION. So they may only need some final concrete pieces of evidence.

That would fit in perfectly with the fact it was only 7 weeks ago they had the anniversary press con.

It’s sounds to me like things are very close.

- new audio, need another witness to come forward after recognise.
- new video, same reason as above.
- press con, push killer to say something on phone or start acting erratic, people notice.
- car siting, May need another witness to place killer in car earlier or leaving car. DNA.

My guess is that it was a random event, killer was probably driving past and saw them. Car won’t be registered so that is the reason it can’t be traced back to him and he dumped it. Killers act on impulse, very rare they plan.

Hopefully that helps! Be confident in the police, they are the experts. Let them do their jobs. Time to celebrate will be after the court hearings.

Thanks from Aus!

Thank you for explaining, Matt. While I have knowledge of "the process", I am in no way an expert. I'm just like anyone else who is "arm chairing" it here, but have learned hyper observance over the years. You are totally correct! We have no right to anymore than we have been given in any case. And even though there are those that think we were given nothing with the last press conference, IMHO, we were given a heap of info!
Thank you for taking the time to help us understand.
OldLadyBlues

 

[Blueberry2720]

Another observation:

Nowhere have I heard or read anything about BG possibly having glasses, and neither of the sketches show him wearing glasses. To me, this further supports the "new" theory that he is younger than previously thought. Again, even if someone is familiar with the bridge and has crossed it many times, you better have damn good eyesight to walk it safely. Many people's eyesight gets at least somewhat worse as they age. My guess is someone 40+ would likely wear some type of eyeglasses to correct their vision.

 

[aust amateur slueth]

My take on the wanting to identify the driver of the car is
LE wants to eliminate the driver and or vehicle from the investigation.

It’s one of those loose ends they have to tie up - imagine if they didn’t try to identify the person or eliminate them or the vehicle, in court that would cast doubt on their case.

Can anyone remember if there were any meetings being held in Delphi that day? Maybe someone is on a committee or is part of a group (community or business) in Delphi and had a legitimate reason for being in Delphi that day.

As for the age range 18-40 and that he might look younger than he is, could he be say 50 and look 40 ?

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

What would bring you to this town? Would you stay in a hotel if you are from out of town, or would this person stay with family or friends? I listened to the recording and I am originally from PA. We use the slang "guys" for male or female. He also says "down" like we do. He has a bit of that accent, but IN dialect is similar. I had a MIL that was from IN. He appears to be in or around 25 - 30 in the new drawing, but he dresses like an old man or someone who doesn't care what he puts on. In Google Earth you can turn back the clock, there are images for April 11, 2017. IDK if that helps, but sometimes there is some small thing you can pick out that is different or out of place. I do know it is 2 months after, but you never know what you will see.

He dresses like a transient, imo. Homeless people put on multiple layers of clothing, so their clothing won't be stolen because they have no safe place to store it. They also put on multiple layers of clothing they have just stolen to transport it away from the scene.

Mental ill transients frequently are dressed inappropriately for the current weather. BG was over-dressed that day for the warm weather.

Transients live under bridges and in abandoned buildings both of which were at this site.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Should be easy to identify the perp wandering around if he has a lazy eye, prominent chin, amputed leg and voice box

I agree with the sentiment that the noises heard between 'guys' and 'down the hill' are most probably artefacts from trying to clean up/enhance the audio, plus any ambient noise.

Hearing certain words in noise is a common auditory illusion, and can be considered a form of pareidolia; it's the same reason that people think they can hear hidden meanings in songs played backwards.

• Article - 'Why we hear voices in random noise'

Others being able to hear the same words - after you've told them what words you can hear - is due to the effect of auditory priming. I really recommend watching below for a striking example of the same phenomenon:

• Audio priming - Led Zeppelin's 'Stairway to Heaven'

It's also why audio such as 911 calls are sometimes sent to independent organisations to transcribe and compare, as priming can drastically change what exactly you will hear. The brain is a funny old thing.

HaHa! Don’t forget this voice boxed, lazy-eyed, prominently chinned, one legged guy must also be lefthanded, have a colostomy bag, and be carrying a puppy inside his jacket!

 

[aust amateur slueth]

Another observation:

Nowhere have I heard or read anything about BG possibly having glasses, and neither of the sketches show him wearing glasses. To me, this further supports the "new" theory that he is younger than previously thought. Again, even if someone is familiar with the bridge and has crossed it many times, you better have damn good eyesight to walk it safely. Many people's eyesight gets at least somewhat worse as they age. My guess is someone 40+ would likely wear some type of eyeglasses to correct their vision.

Prescription sunglasses maybe

 

[Trudie]

I agree, it does seem like they are trying to shame him but I wonder how much shame can you evoke from a person who murders 2 young girls for what seems like sport?

All IMO

I’d say zero. He’s probably enjoying the cat-mouse aspect.
Also, IMO, he’s in 20s, per new sketch, his features seem ‘sharp’ to me.

 

[MJPeony]

As I've been pondering many of the excellent insights here on the board, the thing that I've concluded (IMHO) is that the sole purpose of the release of the new sketch is for the public to notice something very specific that is different from the old one. And while that may seem like "duh", it actually drills down to something a little more nuanced. It's more than just "look out for this new image" or "here is a drawing we think is a little more accurate". They want us to notice the differences, rather than try to mentally combine the two and come up with just an overall better image in our minds.

They know that when they released this new face- after the public having the 1st one burned into their minds for 2 years- human nature is to notice what was expressly different.

So I think it's really significant to think about one or two things that jump out to us as different. As many have already been saying, what one or two characteristics do our minds now shift to start looking out for? Those characteristics are the things that LE is actually pointing out.


All MOO.

 

[Mamamerced]

I read in one early article that the girls met by joining a volleyball
team. Many times these school sports have coaches or assistant
coaches who are unpaid or paid a small part-time salary.
I've always been suspicious of male coaches of girls' sports teams.
We've seen our share of hinky activity by these coaches.
I wonder if they've looked closely at school coaches?

There was speculation very early in the case, by locals, that a relative/uncle who was a softball coach was the perp. I never heard any more detail.

 

[Trudie]

FWIW I see no resemblance between the sketches.
Reminds me of a MP case, the first photos of MP look absolutely nothing like she looked at time of disappearance. I could have sat next to her in Starbucks & not known her.

 

[Gumbeaux]

Very good point.

Perhaps BG is actually a fine dresser; or wears sporty cloths, a uniform or other specific attire; or is not known to for outdoor activities....so is unrecognizable in the baggy clothes he is wearing in the video. I once ran into our mail carrier when he was off duty, and he recognized me but I didn't recognize him at all out of uniform and context!

jmo

BBM

Yes, context! That is everything. So often in public, where we know a face without it fully registering.

In the new photo, besides the hair what ONE or two things stands out as PROMINENT to everyone? What would a witness have made a point to detail about his face? I’m curious to know your thoughts.

What stands out to me is the brow line, and that his features in general are centered smallish within a larger face shape.

I mused long ago that the initially issued sketch could have actually been drawn from an image of a suspect. The detail seems beyond what the mind could recollect.

The newly released (2 year old) sketch is an oddity in its rather vanilla presentation. That said, I do see some similarities between the two sketches, possibly an older vs younger presentation.

 

[ab01]

I think this guy will end up being somebody blue collar

I could see him having a drug or alcohol problems as many murderers often do.

I think he will have a job that leaves his day open or some flexibility.

1. 3rd shift factory worker who was out hunting instead of sleeping.

I don’t believe BG is incredibly smart,or some skillful serial killer. He was simply just lucky enough to get out of the area before LE arrived imo.

2.A farmer. They have flexibility in their jobs and generally have freedom to come and go as they please. Especially if they are grain farmers with no livestock. February is usually somewhat slower time of yr for farmers, other than hauling stored grain out. Many farmers if they are married their wives work full time to carry insurance, leaving nobody to answer to at home. Last there are many farmers and farming families around Delphi.

I guess my point is I don’t believe he called off work that day or LE would have surely found that out by now. He’s most definitely local to the area in my mind, and I have thought that from very early on. He is truly hiding in plain sight! Jmo

All moo

 

[Trudie]

There was speculation very early in the case, by locals, that a relative/uncle who was a softball coach was the perp. I never heard any more detail.

Is it possible the family that hastily left had an OH NO moment after being briefed, needing to get away?

 

[Matic]

Been going through the thread this morning and can't help but still believe that the PC was nothing more than a bluff tactic. It upsets me that for 2 years we've burned a sketch into our collective brain that now we're supposed to disregard and look for the guy in the new sketch (oh and it's a sketch they've had for 2 years). A couple more seconds of video and audio is all they gave us.

Oh and don't forget, they are asking for the public's help in locating the driver of a vehicle (but won't even give the public a description of the vehicle). How are we supposed to do anything with this? You know, there is such a thing as withholding TOO much information, and this is it! Yes, I get it, there are disturbing things on the video/audio, but they're not giving us hardly ANYthing to go on.

I don't believe the guy was "in this room now" and I don't believe they know who did this any more than they did on Day One. Sorry. MOO.

I agree.
I think it was a bluff tactic as well to generate something, anything to get this case going again.

The 2nd sketch looks nothing like the 1st.

The age description is "up to 40".
But the voice, to me anyway, is that of a 40+male, smoker, drinker.

They gave us a single new word in the audio. "Guys". Was "guys" edited into the original audio or is it part of the original audio with possibly the girls voices edited out during the scratchy part?

Why didn't they just edit out the scratchy part and put "Guys, down the hill" all together.

The new sketch that came was was said to be done by a state trooper, correct?
Was this person a skilled sketch artist with experience or just someone with a bit of artistic ability?

Could explain why the right eye looks a bit lazy. Was it done on purpose or did the artist just have trouble with his/her proportions due to not being skilled.

Everyone's looking for someone with a lazy right eye when it simply could be a flaw in the sketch.

My opinion is the same as its always been.

No DNA.
No POI.
No suspects.
No new evidence.

The pc was simply to try and generate something....anything. which is more than what they have. Which is....sadly..nothing.

 

[apples12]

I think LE wants everybody to think about the suspect appearing to be young. Even as young as an 18 year old could look.

 

[RedBeard]

Another observation:

Nowhere have I heard or read anything about BG possibly having glasses, and neither of the sketches show him wearing glasses. To me, this further supports the "new" theory that he is younger than previously thought. Again, even if someone is familiar with the bridge and has crossed it many times, you better have damn good eyesight to walk it safely. Many people's eyesight gets at least somewhat worse as they age. My guess is someone 40+ would likely wear some type of eyeglasses to correct their vision.

If you look at my closeups in a few frames he appears to be wearing these type of glasses for a brief second as he turns. Often referred to as safety or work sunglasses. I think it's up for a debate but based on the few frames I am referencing it's a possibility. They appear to be low profile enough to be masked by the shadow.

 

[MJPeony]

Just thinking if the girls did reference a "creepy guy" then I think that removes any thought that they might have known him.

Exactly.

Or perhaps they just didn't recognize him at first.


(ETA original quote)

 

[CSIDreamer]

Hi All,

I’m from Australia, it just so happens I’m in Law enforcement and have experience with the Policing side of Homicides.

I can across this case from a podcast a few weeks ago, since then I’ve followed along to see how it progresses.

I’ve read a lot of responses from contributors on this thread. Fortunately I can clear a few things up, but unfortunately most of the cyber detectives are over analysing.

Remember this, ‘finding’ out who did this crime is half the process. The main process is ensuring a criminal conviction for police.

Therefore, the general public and even the victims families ARE NOT entitled or should be presented with evidence or possible suspects under any circumstances.

All evidence released, including sketches, audio, video, and in this case car siting, is to be done with a specific outcome in mind. e.g produce leads, further evidence, new suspects etc.

I saw people post, “why not release all the audio?”

Well... why, it obviously won’t help produce new leads. And/or the remaining audio evidence could taint jury if released. I understand you want to here and see the evidence, but bluntly, you have no right and all general public are to be treated as possible suspects/witnesses. Remember you aren’t trained investigators.

Finally, I watched the press conference and found it fascinating.

The press conference was directly aimed at speaking to the killer. My guess would be they have a short list of suspects or may even know 98% who it is.

Everything said in that press con was scripted by a FBI Profiler. It is designed to agitate and provoke the killer in to acting differently or saying something to someone that makes them stand out.

I’d also guess they may even have suspects under physical surveillance or recording devices.

Remember again, ITS ALL ABOUT THE CONVICTION. So they may only need some final concrete pieces of evidence.

That would fit in perfectly with the fact it was only 7 weeks ago they had the anniversary press con.

It’s sounds to me like things are very close.

- new audio, need another witness to come forward after recognise.
- new video, same reason as above.
- press con, push killer to say something on phone or start acting erratic, people notice.
- car siting, May need another witness to place killer in car earlier or leaving car. DNA.

My guess is that it was a random event, killer was probably driving past and saw them. Car won’t be registered so that is the reason it can’t be traced back to him and he dumped it. Killers act on impulse, very rare they plan.

Hopefully that helps! Be confident in the police, they are the experts. Let them do their jobs. Time to celebrate will be after the court hearings.

Thanks from Aus!

By the way, welcome. It would be awesome if you get verified as a member of LE.

 

[cody22]

HaHa! Don’t forget this voice boxed, lazy-eyed, prominently chinned, one legged guy must also be lefthanded, have a colostomy bag, and be carrying a puppy inside his jacket!

and eating a cinnamon bun while checking their fitbit.....LOL !.....moo

 

[Inthedetails]

The two sketches are the same guy.

There is no other voice on the audio.

There are no "mannerisms" of BG in the video to observe except for his gait.

BG enjoyed the press conference and watching the ISP Officer sweat.

Details are withheld so there is no wasted time chasing down false confessions and erroneous tips.[/QUOTE

The two sketches are the same guy.

There is no other voice on the audio.

There are no "mannerisms" of BG in the video to observe except for his gait.

BG enjoyed the press conference and watching the ISP Officer sweat.

Details are withheld so there is no wasted time chasing down false confessions and erroneous tips.

I respectfully disagree - I think there are mannerisms to notice. He doesn't walk like I would across the bridge. I would have my hands out and I would look nervous. My husband is outdoorsy, outgoing, and athletic and would not walk like BG at all. He doesn't walk with his hands in his pockets, ever. But my dad did and so does my brother-in-law, both of whom grew up on Midwestern farms.

Jmo

 

[TTF14]

I agree, it does seem like they are trying to shame him but I wonder how much shame can you evoke from a person who murders 2 young girls for what seems like sport?

All IMO

And how exactly does shaming him make him come out of hiding? Seems to me saying "wait til everyone finds out what you've done" would push him further into hiding.