Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #94

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My idea is,
“Guys, there’s a hurt puppy down there”, “where is it?”
“Down the hill under the bridge”.

Just an example of things I can imagine that they would not release to the public and only the killer would know.

MOO

Imo this did not go down as gently. I’m reminded of my friend who was attacked in a mall parking lot in broad daylight. The guy came ruuuuuning at her from all the way across the parking lot like a football player rushing, angry, cursing...I could be wrong but my guess is he was already following them and had scared them and encountered them on the trail before they crossed the bridge. He was coming at them and Libby knew it. That’s why she recorded him, moo.
 
Good morning (well, afternoon) everyone, today's thoughts:

  • I remain unconvinced that it is possible to accurately or definitively diagnose disabilities, mental or physical, from a single step or a sketch. As far as I'm concerned, all related conclusions in regard to this material is speculation, which may provide some kind of comfort in armchair deduction, but is not conclusive enough to say one way or the other.
  • I know there has been a lot of speculation re: Delphi United Methodist Church. I think there is valid reasoning behind it, but I also think people have been very pointed in their discussion about it, and am of the opinion that if you believe you have such targeted information regarding a possible suspect, you are better off contacting police or the sheriff's office than asking for thoughts or opinions here.
  • I no longer think that BG necessarily has children of his own, but I think it very likely that he is deeply tied to his family and the community families in the area. A beloved son, sibling, possibly someone that many families in Delphi have had contact with.
  • I still do not think that he has committed violent crimes either before or since the attacks. I think it was likely a one-off, that he intended to commit the attack when he went to the trail, and that he did not specifically target Abby or Libby prior to this.
  • I continue to think that it is inappropriate and irrelevant to continue to speculate or implicate sex offenders or suspects based on sketch #1.
 
You can't assume the splicing is in order, "guys" could have been from any point in the recording. It's asinine to make any sort of judgement as to the mood behind 4 spliced words of someone unknown.
I agree, there’s no reason to assume the splicing is in order. I also agree that it’s impossible to make judgement of the mood behind the words. But that doesn’t mean I’m not going to “ponder” about his tone. There’s a difference between theorizing and making judgments.
 
Good morning (well, afternoon) everyone, today's thoughts:

  • I remain unconvinced that it is possible to accurately or definitively diagnose disabilities, mental or physical, from a single step or a sketch. As far as I'm concerned, all related conclusions in regard to this material is speculation, which may provide some kind of comfort in armchair deduction, but is not conclusive enough to say one way or the other.
  • I know there has been a lot of speculation re: Delphi United Methodist Church. I think there is valid reasoning behind it, but I also think people have been very pointed in their discussion about it, and am of the opinion that if you believe you have such targeted information regarding a possible suspect, you are better off contacting police or the sheriff's office than asking for thoughts or opinions here.
  • I no longer think that BG necessarily has children of his own, but I think it very likely that he is deeply tied to his family and the community families in the area. A beloved son, sibling, possibly someone that many families in Delphi have had contact with.
  • I still do not think that he has committed violent crimes either before or since the attacks. I think it was likely a one-off, that he intended to commit the attack when he went to the trail, and that he did not specifically target Abby or Libby prior to this.
  • I continue to think that it is inappropriate and irrelevant to continue to speculate or implicate sex offenders or suspects based on sketch #1.

I agree with all of this!

What I don't understand is why the police can't go and get a DNA sample from the suspect - because I still think they know exactly who he is. What do you need against a person to get DNA? Surely they have quite a bit of evidence to put his sketch out there so isn't that enough to bring him in for questioning, samples etc?
 
His voice may have been recorded and the girls voices screams at the same time. You may not be able to separate the 2

Am I the only one who hears somewhat poor prosody, something monotone, in the words, “hi, guys?”

I am a foreigner. Hence, intonation is difficult to achieve. In my country, the end of the sentence is somewhat down. In English, it is up. Gu-eyes “eyes” will be up.

In his case, it is down.

Maybe something local, but not really. It seems the locals are “stretching” the words, but the intonation is still the same as everywhere else.
 
I haven’t commented since the threads are moving SO fast, but I’m mostly caught up with the new information.

IMHO, I think it would be a disservice to Abby and Libby, their family and friends, and the police department to release any more from Libby’s phone. I was very surprised when they released more audio, less surprised at the video of the suspect walking. At this point, I’m afraid anything left would jeopardize the investigation because there’s probably more criminal activity than “small talk” left :( I have no doubt it’s disturbing and heartbreaking, so to preserve everyone’s wellbeing, it’s in our best interest to use what the police give us.
I feel that way about releasing COD too; I know we all want to know to help put pieces together, but the investigative strategy is to prevent false confessions. From what police said, it’s “the stuff of nightmares,” so it really must have been... horrific :(

I think he’s in their sights. It’s just a matter of checking alibis, motive, description, and a confession at this point. How long that will take, though, I don’t know. But the sheriff’s office seems beyond determined to catch him, to put the family at ease in that sense.

The worst part is knowing that regardless of the outcome, two young women lost their lives at aged 14 and 13 on a warm February day. They just wanted to go walk on a trail. Nothing would’ve ever led anyone to believe that they would die so young and so senselessly. Their deaths, however, are not in vain; people around the country, heck around the world, are speaking their names, keeping their case alive, all for the love of them and the grief of their innocence.
All MOO.
 
I agree with all of this!

What I don't understand is why the police can't go and get a DNA sample from the suspect - because I still think they know exactly who he is. What do you need against a person to get DNA? Surely they have quite a bit of evidence to put his sketch out there so isn't that enough to bring him in for questioning, samples etc?

I think the police is hoping he will confess... I think these “two weeks” are not in waiting for something. It is the time given to him to summon all the courage. This is someone whose parent, or parents, they clearly sympathize with.
 
I turned it off because it was upsetting my dog. It’s the loud background noise that sounds like screeching distortion. Maybe someone else can explain/describe better? Why couldn’t they edit that out?

On the recommendation of another poster I recorded audio on my phone while walking with my phone in my pocket - sounded very similar.
 
I don't know the story behind the sketch but I think the killer has been in contact with LE.
mOO

let me add on this...I think the killer knows things he could only know if he was in Delphi over the course of the investigation and this is how they know he lives in Delphi.

mOO
 
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I missed this article (I’m interested to read it bc I was juust talking about this):

Delphi community could be experiencing psychological impacts: ‘Grief is multi-dimensional’

(ETA: WOW, my above post on this is so similar, same quote I used and everything (“hiding in plain sight”, the town needing therapy...). I know because I’ve been there!!! :()

From the above link:

“We believe you are hiding in plain sight,” said Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter.

Heather Servaty-Seib is a Professor of Counseling Psychology at Purdue University. She says grief is multi-dimensional.

“Back to the moment that the news was initially announced,” said Servaty-Seib, “It’s emotional, it’s cognitive, it’s physical, it’s social, it’s spiritual. It’s all of those aspects and it’s also very unique to each person.”“
 
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One thing (among many others) that struck me during the most recent presser was the request for two weeks.

Two weeks is very specific language. A “week or two” or even just “some time” would not have stood out to me as they don’t give a specific time frame. I know this has been brought up before, but I can’t shake the feeling that “two weeks” were given for a reason.

Let’s hope so! But if two weeks pass and no arrest is announced, I’ll assume the family was just given some breathing space and the time gap was intentional before they renew their deeply passioned plea for somebody to come forward, using whatever venue they choose.

Because I can’t really think of anything more they could’ve added to the Press Conference, other than repeat the same message. And they’re far too media savvy to ever disclose thoughts about the identity of the suspect, although I’m sure every reporter in Delphi that day was itching to ask any one of them that very question.
 
I agree with all of this!

What I don't understand is why the police can't go and get a DNA sample from the suspect - because I still think they know exactly who he is. What do you need against a person to get DNA? Surely they have quite a bit of evidence to put his sketch out there so isn't that enough to bring him in for questioning, samples etc?

You're right — maybe @gitana1 can shed some light on this? I know that it requires a pretty strong basis to get a warrant for DNA from a suspect if they are not willing to provide one.

I do remain pretty convinced that they have quite a bit of circumstantial evidence (which I think TV and media have been extremely detrimental toward; circumstantial evidence can be incredibly helpful and pointed and does not deserve the "oh but it's JUST circumstantial" reputation it's been given). It just may not be targeted enough for a DA to feel warrants a subpoena.
 
I’ve been wanting to talk about this for a while but it requires going somewhere emotionally I didn’t want to go. Here it is:

This killer “hiding in plain sight”—words can not express the terror, fear the community members must feel. As many of you know I’ve been in this situation and am still traumatized by it today. This is not about me but simply prefacing my thoughts that I’ve been in their shoes. And from personal experience is suuuuch a terrorizing place to be. I used to talk about it here, “being like a real life horror movie”...”always looking over your shoulder”..”worried about all the kids”...”wondering if it’s someone you know...”....”including your own friends and coworkers”...”EVERYONe IS A SUSPECT”...””he’s so close I can smell him...”...”that guy behind me in line at the supermarket sure seems suspicious..”...

THhese are the words I’ve said myself when a brutal brutal child murderer was “loose in my community...”

(Tears)

I forgot what I was saying...

Think about how crazy all this is driving us and we are far removed (well some of us, not all of us)—-I can not tell you how awful it is to have to suspect and not trust those around you!! This whole town is going to need therapy!!!

And when will this monster strike again? Has he already? When he does will it be in Delphi or near Delphi? Or far away? Or sort of close?

I'm so sorry you had to experience this, my friend. (((HUGS)))
 
Agreed. However, I do think it's fair to assume that "Guys" happened at a different time from "down the hill." He's using an objectively different tone in his voice from one to the other. I think it's also fair to assume that the police released "Guys" because they realized that he spoke so differently in "Down the hill" that the people who frequently interact with BG may not recognize his voice. I do think they deliberately released a portion in which he sounded different. Otherwise, why would they release it two years later? I think they have learned from the tips they were receiving that the public perception did not match the evidence. That would also explain the change in age range. "Down the hill" sounds like an order to me. "Guys" sounds like an introduction.

Now, I could make additional assumptions, as I have before, that "Guys" occurred earlier because he sounds less commanding and at the beginning of the conversation it would be not be advantageous to show his true colors, but yes, that would be guessing. Maybe I've read "The Gift of Fear" too many times, but I believe that most predators who are not trying to immediately rob you and who approach you in broad daylight will initially attempt to be friendly or at least less threatening. Basically, accelerated grooming to lower your guard until he is completely in control.

BBM.

I cannot tell you how much I agree with this. I believe as BG started toward the girls across the bridge, they noticed him. He saw the girls notice him, so what do you do to help a person think you're harmless? You greet them. "Hey, guys." BG may have said something else like, "What are you doing?" The girls replied, "taking pictures." All the time it took for a short convo to take place, BG has gotten closer to the girls without alerting their fear instinct enough to run. It is exactly what cfreya23 said it is: accelerated grooming.

There is definitely a cut/splice between "Hey, guys" and "Down the hill" spoken by BG. There was more conversation between the greeting and the command that has been intentionally left out by LE, and they have their reasons.

BG may have intended his walk to look like ambling across the bridge, as if he wasn't making a straight attempt to overtake the girls too quickly. That would have alerted their fear instincts. Instead, BG walks slowly towards them. When he sees they have seen them, he acknowledges their presence, makes small-talk as he gets closer. He probably acted as if he was going to pass by them. Then, in the same instance, BG pulled out a weapon, grabbed one of the girls and held the weapon to her head or neck. This got the compliance of both girls, and he ordered them, "Down the hill."

IMHO, BG is wearing a brown fanny pack or some kind of carrier (backpack) under his jacket. There is a definite weight shadow from it in the video that is not just a brown shirt. He probably had a pistol in there, and possibly a length of rope. Perhaps, as some have suggested, he had one girl tie the other one up under threat from the weapon. Otherwise, it is difficult to imagine how BG could overpower two young, athletic girls at the same time.

In the video, BG is wearing baggy clothing; a baggy jacket and baggy pants. The initial sketch made him look heavier than LE must believe he really is, and the clothing contributed to the public's belief that BG was an older, heavier man. It is obvious the new sketch of the younger, thinner man is more realistic to the investigation now. That means the bulk under BG's jacket was not paunch but the intentional hiding of weapons. BG was hunting prey that day. And he was careful not to scare off his quarry until he could get close enough to capture them.
 
Here is something “circular” I’m not quite understanding:

Carter said they may have even talked to him before. (As I stated this wouldn’t be an epiphany or uncommon factor imo as we see this occurrence all the time on “Cold Case Files”.)

But IF they HAVE already interviewed him, they would have a list of everyone in their files that they’ve talked to.

So does this mean then, that they can’t rule out everyone whose name appears in their files?
IMHO yes...Early on in other cases Ted Bundy's name, a description was brought up to LE several times, same with Gary Ridgeway he was interviewed in connection with the missing women because of several witnesses recognized him, his car and were last to be seen with several victims but there wasn't enough evidence to charge either one.
It's highly possible they have interviewed him and haven't eliminated him from the list. They have a strong suspect but need to gather more evidence. LE might think the last PC would cause him to squirm, become paranoid, do something and they could follow him or gain new evidence. At least that's what I hope.
 
I have a lot of respect for everyone studying this guy and looking for features that might help identify him. But personally, I'm just having a hard time accepting this guy has any kind of major physical or visual handicap. He crossed the bridge, crossed the creek, went up and down hills, through the woods, all while keeping two teenage girls in line, then finally murdering them both and walking back.

I don’t think he planned to kill them. Maybe he planned something, or has anger outbursts, who knows?

I think it all was spontaneous, but not sure. I think they went down with him willingly. So he was not that scary.

I think he is local and crossed this bridge many times. I don’t have gait issues, but four people have to drag me on that bridge. It is high and scary. It has to be someone who crossed this bridge before, many times, knows it.
 
In effect, they did say that the nature of the surface on the bridge, would be impacting his walk though.

This task force would have consulted experts in this sort of thing, and pointed out to the public some sort of identifying physical issue, if they had a certain degree of confidence that was the case.

Their silence here, is a pretty good indication that they don’t think he has any abnormalities or ailments.

They want to identify this guy, and something like that would help a great deal.


I think we need to be careful about ascribing motives to others based on our own experience as “normative” human beings. What appears to be true is the presence of an abnormal gait. I am with others who noticed that earlier as well. Why is not clear to me. One simple explanation could be the load this POI appears to be carrying, combined with the need to step intentionally due to the bridge structure. However, to then ascribe avoidance of risk as a reason a person with such a gait might not cross such a bridge is mixing filters. Serial killer traits include high impulsivity and high need for risk.

An expert reveals the 12 key traits common in serial killers, and some of them might surprise you
 
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