Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #94

[Quinquin]

Hoping to spare you all from going down another potential rabbit hole; that Monon Trail with the flasher problem is in Indy, not Delphi.

Thank you, I was literally about to fall into that hole!!!

 

[drama_farmer]

I think you would have to know him to recognize the mannerisms in real life. I don't know that I would notice that in someone just walking down the street. I am sure LE is hoping family and friends will now study the video more after recognizing the sketch and have to admit to themselves what their relative/friend did and get him to turn himself in.

MOO. I agree. I think in our efforts to be helpful from our "armchairs" we lose sight of the purpose of the video and sketch.

IMO, LE is looking for people who recognize this person in real life: Might this sketch and/or video of the BG resemble MY relative, neighbor, teacher, butcher, baker, candlestick maker, etc. The idea is not to search the internet for mugshots or news videos or candid snapshots of people who might resemble the sketch. I have a feeling that LE, with its vast resources, has the motivation and technology to stay on top of that task.

Same with the video. I have come to realize that I can be incredibly suggestible and impressionable. This became readily apparent when watching those "ghost hunter" shows that used to predominate cable tv. I could listen to a "ghost voice" on tape, and hear nothing but random noise. Then, when the words were added on screen, I could immediately hear those words being spoken. They were crystal clear!

My brain (and most likely yours, as well) is incredibly good at recognizing patterns "hidden" in random noise. It's so good, in fact, that it can also have us see what isn't really there, based on a lot of variables, both personal and situational.

MOO

 

[bmacmillan1]

Has it actually been stated by LE that there is more of Libby's recording than they have released?

 

[MistyWaters]

Yeah, definitely a good way to do it.

I’d be the worst person in the world to provide a description.

“Yes, he had a nose,” isn’t exactly helpful.

I’d have a shot at providing a somewhat accurate description this way.

I would to. Plus after I picked a wrong head-shape or nose
I might not realize it until the sketch was completely done. Only then it didn’t look quite right. By the time GH every patient made a few changes for me, the sketch would probably begin to make me question who I remembered seeing. It must be an extremely difficult process.

 

[margarita25]

Reminds me, I read a post here a day or two ago, the poster said something like the suspect “photobombed Abby”. Wish I’d asked this then but at the moment I’d run out of time,.. but does anyone recall that and / or know what was meant by that ? TIA

There are some opinions here that I read that if I’m paraphrasing correctly, in some people’s opinions, BG’s video was not captured intentionally. I am not in this camp one bit, I think she recorded him for a reason, that reason being they knew they were in danger and he was approaching.

 

[Boxer]

You are remembering correctly. It was said in an interview of Libby's GF on the night that they were still listed as "missing". I watched that recently as it was linked by a WS poster. It was the first I had heard that they initially thought that Libby might have tried to go to visit her mom. And I also, like you, was wondering how they thought she would have tried to get there.

IIRC at the time it was put out there that they just weren't kids who didn't check in.
Libby = straight As etc.
1:30 drop to 3 pickup - 90 minutes on their own on a holiday on a popular trail by their homes. Terrible.
Wishing police good
luck and hunting in their new direction.

 

[margarita25]

Has it actually been stated by LE that there is more of Libby's recording than they have released?

Yes. Iirc, there was a comment that the girls were just talking about stuff girls talk about iirc.

But then why would they be recording that? Perhaps the recording started earlier on the trail when they thought they were being followed (before the bridge)? Then there was another recording after he encountered them? Sorry if I’m having a brainfart.

I think there’s an Inside Edition video which may refer to this, or perhaps it was an interview with one of the family members? Please forgive my fading memory of certain sources and details.

 

[JaneEyre]

If only our dogs could talk, maybe they hear something we don’t.

How I wish K-9s were more of a regular part with LE. Wouldn’t it have been interesting to have let a dog sniff around the site after the bodies were removed and then walk past each searcher? I wonder if a dog may have stopped at one particular searcher.

 

[No it's not]

Whew! This was harder than I thought. I had to try to screen shot right when reflection on bag occurred.

Disclaimer: Obviously, this is just my perception. Once I “see” something, it’s very hard to unsee it. Also, I feel that I can visualize the pack better in watching the video, than in “still” shots. So, take a look at the video to see what you think. Especially pay attention to the way the zipper or label on the bag appears/disappears based on reflection of light.

Pic 1: I have drawn an arrow to where I *think* I see the light catching on a label or zipper on his bag.

Pic 2: Circled in red, I tried to indicate the general idea of where I see the (dark colored) bag...which obviously would be overlapping in appearance with his arm.

Pic 3: I drew 2 arrows where what many think to be a sweatshirt hood could possibly be the top of a pack. (Which would be lighter in color than rest of bag, due to light, and possibly it is exposing contents to an open topped duffle type bag). I’m less sure about this pic showing a bag or not.


Link to GH’s stabilized video.

Of course, I could be wrong, and there is no bag/pack/duffle. But I feel I can see one.
MOO.

Went through every frame (48 frames) and noticed a big artifact (rectangle) in some of them. It may evoke there is something. However, you can see in this (frame) image, there is no bag:

 

[rosesfromangels]

There are some opinions here that I read that if I’m paraphrasing correctly, in some people’s opinions, BG’s video was not captured intentionally. I am not in this camp one bit, I think she recorded him for a reason, that reason being they knew they were in danger and he was approaching.

Agree. He must have appeared menacing. For all we know he was calling out to them before she started the video. Or, perhaps his rapid approach (obviously trying to catch up to them) alerted them to danger.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Joolz1975]

Woah, the third pic with your arrows: I don’t think I’ve ever noticed that before?! That does look like the top of a pack?! Wth is that? How have I not seen that before? Feel free to tell me I’m seeing things, I will not be offended!

There doesn't appear to be any backpack straps showing on the front of his jacket like you would expect to see though.

 

[kkdj]

Has it actually been stated by LE that there is more of Libby's recording than they have released?

Yes. Some have speculated the phone was recording until it ran out of battery but LE has not said how much audio they have, just that there is more.

 

[indycindy]

That would mean def premeditated then. Is the general feeling that this was planned and not opportunistic?

Planned out prior in their mind......opportunity YES...not that they (he) had Abby and Libby in mind.

 

[margarita25]

How I wish K-9s were more of a regular part with LE. Wouldn’t it have been interesting to have let a dog sniff around the site after the bodies were removed and then walk past each searcher? I wonder if a dog may have stopped at one particular searcher.

I was revisiting the “basement files” (WS members only). A lot of time and effort went into these. It was very interesting to go back for a second read two years later.

Here is the link—WS TOS states we are not allowed to discuss anything referred to in the basement thread up here in this thread. I hope these rules will be followed and this does not create more work for our moderators.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/liberty-german-and-abigail-williams-scanner-thread.333467/

 

[indycindy]

It could be both. A mix.

He came prepared to kill, but hadn’t set his sights on a particular target.

Perhaps he did this sort of thing a lot (stalking the woods), and just came across an opportunity to actually kill, on that day.

I’m not sold on the backpack idea, although it’s certainly possible.

I think he had a knife on him, one that he always carried.

Yes

 

[Quinquin]

Oh. I guess I'm confused because what you said was: "What I don't understand is why the police can't go and get a DNA sample from the suspect - because I still think they know exactly who he is. What do you need against a person to get DNA? Surely they have quite a bit of evidence to put his sketch out there so isn't that enough to bring him in for questioning, samples etc?"

If you meant something 100% different from that I'd have no way of knowing that. I was responding directly to your question.

I see these questions quite a bit. Including the one about why can't they just haul a person in for questioning. That's also the fourth amendment as that would constitute an arrest. And the fifth amendment right against self incrimination would cover being forced to talk.

That's not allowed in this country.

If you mean why can't they force DNA if they "know" who it is, they may feel they know but they still need probable cause.

And there have been many crimes where LE "knew" who the perpetrator was but could not gather enough evidence to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. The justice system is not a process of "truth finding" unfortunately. The system works best for those with the ability to spin the evidence and sway a jury, not for those seeking the truth. imo

 

[kai]

Has it been stated by LE that the backpack in question was thought to have belonged to BG? Maybe Abby or Libby had a backpack with them that was missing at the crime scene. Jmo

 

[minazoe]

Im looking at the image again as if that is thick hair blown forward like Justin Bieber.
and I cannot unsee it...it's NOT A HAT. that is very a distinctive haircut.

and yes I believe the killer is threatening to kill again and the visibly shaken LE is evidence of this ongoing struggle.

there could also be other dangers surrounding this person, maybe vulnerable children, wives, frightened persons who have tipped them off. could be that the parabon doesn't age the suspect so you have to pick the age you think is closest to the photo. But that cop was as nervous as a cat during that presser...he was nervous and appeared TORMENTED.

this killer I think would enjoy the attention and the power .he would enjoy threatening
Delphi.

I hope they all stay safe and keep their girls at home. mOO

 

[LadyL]

Personally, I doubt that.

He had some time before the point of no return, and an opportunity to determine if these girls fit the criteria he was looking for.

I think he knew exactly what he was doing, and he wanted these girls.

I’ve seen it happen the other way though, in blitz type attacks.

I was reading about a case recently, where a serial killer crashed into a woman riding a bicycle (thinking she was in his much younger target age range).

He realized that he had made a mistake, but still tried to kill her. She gave him a hell of a fight.

Fortunately, a car came down the road, and he decided to flee.

This wasn’t like that though.

[bbm]

mind sharing the name of the killer? I'd be interested to read about that one

 

[dansbia]

Has it actually been stated by LE that there is more of Libby's recording than they have released?

If liberty started recording him and then put the phone in her pocket so he wouldn't see it, which is the reason I think he didn't take it, at what point would she take it out and stop recording, without him noticing, not that I think she would even have the opportunity? Jmo

Edited to fix typos