Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #94

[Mrs. Grueby]

Ya know, I don’t know what I was imagining when, according to my theory, the killer used a gun to get them “down the hill”. I only realized that after watching some re-enactments, he only needed to show the gun once to move them off the trail. And after that they were probably out of sight. I also realized how quickly he might have come up on them while still on the bridge, got them off the trail and marched them to where they were found. He didn’t need to be athletic, or even that strong. The video clips had me thinking he was lumbering along, and continued with that gait. However, I now seriously doubt he was not fully abled... and very fast. My guess is that he could be any age. MOO

This man is so scary to me. It’s hard to make sense of such a random (MOO), quick killing.

 

[MistyWaters]

This two sketch is somewhat worrisome. Even if there is an arrest and the case goes to trial. The defense is definitely going to bring this issue up of why LE released the second sketch after a span of two years and asked everyone to ignore the first sketch. It definitely does not project the LE in good light. I do hope the prosecuting team will have a very convincing answer to this question. MOO.

A very common tactic in the defence of an accused is to allege LE had tunnel vision. From day one they only concentrated on proving their client was guilty and considered no other possibilities, yada, yada. So LE having refocused their efforts can be advantageous as well. This is not a reflection against LE at all. They can only follow the evidence down the road it takes them and if that road leads to a dead end but they’ve an opportunity to pursue a different path, that’s great progress. Far better than it becoming a cold case.

I think we can blame LE only if we assume they thought they knew who the murderer was all along. But if that were so, they’d have no reason to waste time and energy by avidly seeking tips from the public.

 

[bfin1995]

Yes, I remember someone stated (without reference link) that The Shack was screened at “the last” youth group movie night at a local church (can’t remember which one they specified). Perhaps we can find this information on one of the church websites.

ETA Thread #90, page 22So, I'm unaware of it's been mentioned on here or not, but the date the movie The Shack was released coincides with the very same date that the Delphi United Methodist Church had their final movie night.

I don't have time to find the exact post right now, but someone posted the church's newsletter from that month and The Shack was NOT the film screened that night.

 

[marisab67]

Yes me too!!!

Me, three. I know we can’t talk about it but I feel better knowing that if we can make this connection, then LE already has and that’s part of what the PC was about. If you only lurk, it’s worth creating an account to look at.

 

[pepper 34]

Could anyone who is good with maps tell me the approximate distance between where the girls were found and the old welfare building is?

Walking... approximately 1.25 miles.

 

[HockeyMom330]

Or maybe he was around the girls age, (puberty), when he really discovered he was gay. Unacceptable to those around him. He now has a rage against girls that age because they have destroyed his life - not being able to feel for them. I wonder if the girls were abused, but not raped.

Yes, and some have speculated that SA was the motive for this crime, but that the girls were not actually assaulted. Perhaps he intended to initiate sexual behaviour (maybe forcing them to take their clothes off) to 'test' himself to see if he could be aroused by a female but when he couldn't he got angry and transfered his range to the girls. As a side note, I believe he may have resorted to sexual violence because it would have been inappropriate (based on his religious values) to seek a consensual relationship with either a female or male, therefore he really had no outlet to explore the feelings he would have been having as a teen and young adult in a healthy manner.

 

[cluciano63]

As to releasing more audio...I think LE is hardwired to think ahead to prosecution, and hate to release info. They ask for help from the public but often give it out themselves in small, tortutous bits over a long period, as time passes. They only release more when they need help...which is why I believe they do not have a suspect. Jmo

 

[teeandcee]

Ya know, I don’t know what I was imagining when, according to my theory, the killer used a gun to get them “down the hill”. I only realized that after watching some re-enactments, he only needed to show the gun once to move them off the trail. And after that they were probably out of sight. I also realized how quickly he might have come up on them while still on the bridge, got them off the trail and marched them to where they were found. He didn’t need to be athletic, or even that strong. The video clips had me thinking he was lumbering along, and continued with that gait. However, I now seriously doubt he was not fully abled... and very fast. My guess is that he could be any age. MOO

This man is so scary to me. It’s hard to make sense of such a random (MOO), quick killing.

I had the very same misconceptions and the very same reactions to video reconstructions. I also realized how it could’ve happened so fast. Which made it even more frightening. You know they assumed they were about to be raped when he made contact, which was terrifying enough. If only that was “all” that happened (I’m not minimizing rape in any way!). Poor kids!

 

[enelram]

A very common tactic in the defence of an accused is to allege LE had tunnel vision. From day one they only concentrated on proving their client was guilty and considered no other possibilities, yada, yada. So LE having refocused their efforts can be advantageous as well. This is not a reflection against LE at all. They can only follow the evidence down the road it takes them and if that road leads to a dead end but they’ve an opportunity to pursue a different path, that’s great progress. Far better than it becoming a cold case.

I think we can blame LE only if we assume they thought they knew who the murderer was all along. But if so, they’d have no reason to waste time and energy by avidly seeking tips from the public.

My hunch is we'll see the opposite of tunnel vision- that the perp
is son of a prominent local family- probably very religious family
and no one in local LE wanted to thoroughly pursue this unthinkable possibility.
Family probably covered for perp for alibi or other friends.
I also think perp will be a 'closeted gay' with very little real
life experience with girls, dating. Probably led a sheltered
life with an all consuming hyper religious family.

 

[moonlessnight]

or possibly it's someone Carter has known and watched grow up.

I’m leaning your direction on this also. Carter really emphasized that this person has great interest in the facts of the case, and simply stating that may reveal that it is NOT someone inherently involved in the investigation (i.e., family or LE).

Carter’s emotions during the PC point to a huge betrayal of trust— and that could mean this is a person with some authority or status within the community.

 

[Keine Engel]

Also, I quite honestly do not understand LE's motives in regards to this case. They just now, 2 years later, released the video of the still photo and BG saying an extra word. Why wouldn't they release as much as possible within those first few days/weeks/months so that others can identify him? The longer this drags on the harder it will be to catch him.
I get that they are a small town and likely do not have much experience with murder cases, but that seems like common sense. JMO, if anyone has explanation for my questions I would love to hear them, especially from someone within the field of LE.

I think it's interesting, & what a lot of people seem to be missing, is that there was NO hint of this 'change in direction' & the original sketch (old) released was still being show in the February 2019 press conference by LE???

Hundreds of tips called in after two-year press conference for Delphi murders

Redirect Notice

 

[taylorss]

Hi and welcome to WS.

I'm firmly convinced the teens were killed where they were found. And, yes, it is most likely the three crossed the creek.

Carrying the bodies would have been almost impossible, imho. As to how the killer left, there are several opinions.

moo

I don’t remember if this was ever discussed, but is it possible he pushed one or both girls off the bridge? Brought to mind by talk of marching the girls around, moving the bodies etc, now possibly done by one boy who wasn’t much older than them ..... That scenario is longtime theory of case, but has it ever been confirmed?

If not, maybe something more simple and juvenile happened like COD was some dumb punk pushing them off. Could explain reported quickness of death but also displacement from bridge to far side water bank ?

Such a scenario might also explain killer’s family willingness to protect him, as inferred from LE beggjng them to turn him in, lack of clear DNA match, killer making mistake of leaving phone behind, maybe more ???

This is made-up SPECULATION all MOO

 

[JaneEyre]

I just looked at the online yearbooks of Delphi High, the wrestling team. Yes, now I see what you are talking about with the wrestlers head gear. But why on earth would he wear something like that - if he did? Wouldn't it muffle sound? He would need to hear sounds for people approaching etc. Do wrestlers wear those so their ears don't get cauliflowered?

Amateur opinion and speculation

I come from a family of wrestlers. I’ve never known one to wear it off the mat. They aren’t particularly comfortable, which is why half the time, before the ref has even raised their hand for the win, the guy has unsnapped the thing. The only use these serve is to prevent cauliflower ear from being pressed to the mat repeatedly.

 

[Boxer]

Very interesting. Teenagers even more often struggle with bisexuality, and these conservative families don’t help at all. JMO.

Could it have been misplaced anger then? Two girls taking selfies, some of them might show them hugging, like friends often do... maybe this raised his anger?

MOO for reasons that these victims
brought this on themselves.

Wondering how it came to be that the one guy (first sketch) was cleared at the same time new image was decided upon. As in, why two years to clear original BG? Is he a witness who solidfied their belief in sketch two? Or what...seems odd that both things happened at once, as if the first guy had been cleared sooner, surely LE would have said? Removed his image from circulation?

Great questions.
MOO since police just had their sad second anniversary PC and then called a new PC so soon, there must be a reason.
MOO something has really happened,
maybe that 'something' is a new witness

MOO As you say, if that new witness is actually was OBG and he was able to excluded from the crime, AND he gave them new info from that day, that would be big break.

 

[Jax49]

I don’t remember if this was ever discussed, but is it possible he pushed one or both girls off the bridge? Brought to mind by talk of marching the girls around, moving the bodies etc, now possibly done by one boy who wasn’t much older than them ..... That scenario is longtime theory of case, but has it ever been confirmed?

If not, maybe something more simple and juvenile happened like COD was some dumb punk pushing them off. Could explain reported quickness of death but also displacement from bridge to far side water bank ?

Such a scenario might also explain killer’s family willingness to protect him, as inferred from LE beggjng them to turn him in, lack of clear DNA match, killer making mistake of leaving phone behind, maybe more ???

This is made-up SPECULATION all MOO

In my personal opinion, the short answer is no. Moving the bodies would have been extremely difficult, if not impossible. Plus, several posters have mentioned there was no crime scene tape where it would be expected if that had happened.

moo

 

[sunsetbeach]

Admin note:

Take the "incel" and "white supremacist" discussion to the private conversation area. Theories have to be based on known facts and law enforcement has not announced any connection to those topics.

Just bumping this post.

 

[Boxer]

That's called circumstantial evidence and it does indeed help convict a criminal.

MOO. I agree, old school: Opportunity, motive, means.

 

[ab01]

Already posted

 

[MJPeony]

Thank you...exactly what I have been saying. Plus, why would they want to sort through hundreds more new and mostly useless tips at this stage, if they only needed info on one specific person?

Agree it seems daunting, but I think LE would gladly wade through hundreds of new tips to get to what they need in order to solve this case. And fits in to Carter asking the public to please be patient. JMO.

 

[Boxer]

I don't have time to find the exact post right now, but someone posted the church's newsletter from that month and The Shack was NOT the film screened that night.

The Shack was broadcast the night before the 4/22/19 PC on Lifetime.