Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #95

[GA_Peach]

Here is a map (Google Earth 4/17), that shows some possible visuals anyone could have had, if parked at the CPS/DHS building (now demolished) and walked towards the N/W Trailhead/ Freedom Bridge. Not saying it may have been relevant, but it could be one more piece of showing how well planned the attack really was IMO.

BG in my view was/is all about being prepared for any (good) opportunity that day to attack. I do not think the girls were specifically targeted and I have to wonder, if BG would have possibly attacked them earlier - or somebody else-, if they had chosen to rather take the Nature preserve trail down towards the creek than the 501 (step) trail to the High Bridge. Of course we do not know, if the girls did go down there first or not, still wondering, if BG was aiming for anyone passing the High Bridge instead.

It is interesting to study any strategic points on the trail itself, 2-3 curves perhaps, points where one can see who is behind or in front of you. There are not many and the time of the year offered a good additional view past and through the leafless trees and shrubs.

This is an experienced offender IMO. He may have been out in the area before. He may have been out in many areas/parks before and may have been checking off different locations on a regular base all-while possibly making pics or videos of the area.

This killer IMO has many "killing grounds" and it is only a matter of time, when he will be killing again, if not apprehended soon.

I really hope LE is sure about the younger age, IMO it is the opposite and he is retired having ample time to plan, research and operate beyond Delphi, Carrol County or the State of Indiana. Yes, he blends in and that is his biggest asset IMO.

All IMO of course.

-Nin

Thanks, Nin! This aerial view is extremely helpful.

Since the PC, I have thought that BG parked at the abandoned building. LE has been interested in the "hitchhiker" who was seen along Hoosier Heartland Highway since the very beginning. After seeing this, I will not be surprised if we find out BG walked along the creek bank and exited right by Hoosier Heartland Highway. He then walked along the highway until he got to the abandoned building. This would work to BG's advantage because he would have been walking away from anyone coming to look for the girls, and he would minimize encountering anyone on his way out.

Do any locals know how steep it is from Hoosier Heartland Highway down to the river? It is hard to tell from the map.

Side note - I wonder if the man, who MP saw on his way to find the girls and told him he saw a "couple" by the water, has come forward since that day.

I do not think that this was BG's first time, and I would not be surprised if we come to find out that there is audio of BG alluding to another crime he committed in the past. These have been thoughts since they very beginning of this case. Praying that we see an arrest soon.

I think LE must have felt pretty confident that this new press conference was going to give them the momentum they needed. I find it against their best interest to make some of the statements that they did, if they really had no idea who they were looking for. Think of all the social media witch hunts that have taken place since this case started. LE had to had know that a new sketch, and statements like "could be in this room" were going to start the social media ablaze. They have even said before , "internet rumors can hinder the search"
Delphi Murders: Investigators say internet rumors can hinder search for Libby & Abby’s killer
I am curious if the family had ever seen this sketch before. If not, why? What would have made them keep it close to the vest.

BBM

They put all of their professional credibility into the last PC. If they are bluffing, it was not a smart move. They were clearly talking to BG, and he knows if they are bluffing or not. I truly believe that they are extremely close to closing in on their suspect.

 

[pepper 34]

I haven’t quite found what I was looking for, but I find something else that was helpful. I was just curious, if everyone voluntarily came forward who was on the trail except for the suspect, if sketch #1 was sighted on the trail and he was a different man than sketch #2, why wasn’t he one of the people who came forward.

The answer is - apparently he was only sighted near the trail.

“Police say they hope the sketch will help clarify some of the pictures that were previously released regarding the investigation and the man on the bridge. Police say the sketch of the suspect is based off witness tips, including one woman who told police she saw this man near the Delphi Historic Trails the day Abby Williams and Libby German were murdered.”
Police release sketch of man accused of murdering Delphi teens Liberty German and Abigail Williams

Imo... because it's the same guy. In one sketch and at the trails that day... he had disguised his appearance.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Just throwing this out there.

Could a flat bottom John boat have been used to get to and away from the area?

BG could have came from upstream, walked up the hill to the head of the trail.

Came across the bridge follow the girls.
Directed them "down the hill", across the creek. Commited the crimes near where his john boat was pulled up on the bank.

Got in and down stream he goes?
Possible?

Not likely IMO. It's a creek with shallow and deeper areas, not sure if anything other than a canoe or kayak would be possible (I don't know this one way or the other, just guessing.) But more to the point, keep in mind that downstream would lead him to more a populated area of Delphi.

 

[mtnlites]

Does anyone remember seeing the pic the mom (iirc) took of the man sitting on the bench in the park?

Yes, but that never made it to MSM. That was something passed around on social media. Nothing official was ever said about it.

 

[mtnlites]

Not likely IMO. It's a creek with shallow and deeper areas, not sure if anything other than a canoe or kayak would be possible (I don't know this one way or the other, just guessing.) But more to the point, keep in mind that downstream would lead him to more a populated area of Delphi.

You're right. That creek is mostly pretty shallow. Depending on where you're at, you're looking at only 3 feet or so depth in some places. They did get some rain in and that swelled the creek size, but I've honestly never seen a boat there.

 

[Peppery]

I believe they likely have a witness statement stating color and type of vehicle. But Id bet they probably don’t know make/model. And they certainly don’t have licensed plate number.

Also if the vehicle was stolen, and LE kNew about it. We would have been told more details about it and much much sooner.

The only thing I can figure is if some new details came to light about whose vehicle it likely was.

But honestly I just don’t think they can give an exact description, bc they only have a vague witness statement of a vehicle being there. Or varying witness statements that don’t match as far as make model and or color

All jmo

If it was stolen, then found, if it’s at all suspected to be connected to BG no way would LE give it back to the owner.

If the owner lives in Delphi, most of the town would know Joe Blow’s car was stolen and found around the same time as the murders but the cops won’t give it back. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out how they’re connected.

If LE does not have the car I don’t know why they wouldn’t release the make/model.

 

[cfreyja23]

Have the police clarified whether Libby's dad was or was not the person who saw the person in Sketch #2? We know that the sketch was drawn a few days after the murders, and that it was an eyewitness sketch. Is it possible that this was the guy that Libby's dad saw coming off the bridge who he asked about seeing two girls, and the person said, "No, I did not"? It would make sense to me that they would have him do an eyewitness sketch of that person, but if the person did not match the video (maybe he discarded his hat and jacket), they did not believe that person was BG? Just throwing this out there.

 

[neesaki]

Wasn't this just hashed out yesterday?

I don't know but I deleted my post anyway, just in case it was against TOS.

 

[mtnlites]

I have thought about the fact the killer would have been wet, but not until recently. Seems like somebody would have noticed it if they had seen him after the crime on the trails.
I was wondering last night if the killer was interrupted by hearing people calling for the girls. Quickly covered the bodies with leaves and walked away from the bridge around the curve in the creek. He then walked up the slope into one of RL’s outer buildings where he took off the outer clothes, built a small fire to dry himself and burn the outer clothes. He’s there about an hour. Now he’s dry. He makes his way carefully along the top of the ridge until he can step back onto the trail without being seen, now wearing dry different clothes. Perhaps he stops and talks to someone about the missing girls. Says he wishes he was able to stay and help. Walks back to his car at old CPS building and he is gone. Maybe he does come back later to help with the search.

It's also possible that he just lucked out and didn't encounter anyone on the way back to the car or, for whatever reason, one of the witnesses DID see someone with wet clothes and LE just hasn't told us that.

 

[mtnlites]

Have the police clarified whether Libby's dad was or was not the person who saw the person in Sketch #2? We know that the sketch was drawn a few days after the murders, and that it was an eyewitness sketch. Is it possible that this was the guy that Libby's dad saw coming off the bridge who he asked about seeing two girls, and the person said, "No, I did not"? It would make sense to me that they would have him do an eyewitness sketch of that person, but if the person did not match the video (maybe he discarded his hat and jacket), they did not believe that person was BG? Just throwing this out there.

They've never said who the witnesses were one way or another.

 

[ab01]

Wasn't this just hashed out yesterday?

It was and mods were kind enough to remind us that sleuthing posters past and present on the board is a major no no. MOO

 

[neesaki]

Hmmm, if he knew he was being recorded and forgot until after he left the scene, he might be even more inclined to join the searching, hoping he could find the phone before anyone else. Imagine if he’d been able to slip it in his pocket and we’d never even know about it!

Does anyone know if the report is accurate that Libby's phone was pinging all over town that morning ? I'd forgotten about that until I went back to a previous thread. TIA

 

[mekeritrig]

Thanks, Nin! This aerial view is extremely helpful.

Since the PC, I have thought that BG parked at the abandoned building. LE has been interested in the "hitchhiker" who was seen along Hoosier Heartland Highway since the very beginning. After seeing this, I will not be surprised if we find out BG walked along the creek bank and exited right by Hoosier Heartland Highway. He then walked along the highway until he got to the abandoned building. This would work to BG's advantage because he would have been walking away from anyone coming to look for the girls, and he would minimize encountering anyone on his way out.

Do any locals know how steep it is from Hoosier Heartland Highway down to the river? It is hard to tell from the map.

Side note - I wonder if the man, who MP saw on his way to find the girls and told him he saw a "couple" by the water, has come forward since that day.

I do not think that this was BG's first time, and I would not be surprised if we come to find out that there is audio of BG alluding to another crime he committed in the past. These have been thoughts since they very beginning of this case. Praying that we see an arrest soon.




BBM

They put all of their professional credibility into the last PC. If they are bluffing, it was not a smart move. They were clearly talking to BG, and he knows if they are bluffing or not. I truly believe that they are extremely close to closing in on their suspect.

To answer your question about how steep it is to the river, I made a map showing the relative steepness of the trail from the creek bank where the bodies were found up to the cemetery next to the highway to the north. Also here's a direct link to the topographic map of the area from the USGS without the satellite overlay I added. (https://prd-tnm.s3.amazonaws.com/StagedProducts/Maps/USTopo/PDF/IN/IN_Delphi_20161102_TM_geo.pdf)

 

[margarita25]

I’ve got the Delphi Special on HLN ready to record. It comes on 2.5 hours from now on my local listing.

 

[ab01]

If it was stolen, then found, if it’s at all suspected to be connected to BG no way would LE give it back to the owner.

If the owner lives in Delphi, most of the town would know Joe Blow’s car was stolen and found around the same time as the murders but the cops won’t give it back. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out how they’re connected.

If LE does not have the car I don’t know why they wouldn’t release the make/model.

Yeah I don't think it was stolen and or ever recovered by LE, I honestly think its more likely that one or more people saw it parked in the lot that day.

The only pause I have is why wouldn't LE have asked early on if anyone could identify this vehicle and who was driving it?

Why are we just hearing about it now

 

[Not a Belle]

Does anyone know if the report is accurate that Libby's phone was pinging all over town that morning ? I'd forgotten about that until I went back to a previous thread. TIA

I believe it was reported that it was pinging all over town, but that doesn’t mean the phone was moving, just that the signal was moving from tower to tower (I am sure there’s a better way to say that, and have seen it explained better. I will find a clearer explanation when I can sit down at my computer).

 

[wary]

Ok, but at what point does he decide he is going to attack and kill these 2 girls?

Was he walking by them, on the bridge, and then a sudden, intense urge overtakes him, and all the immediate reactions were spontaneous? He lunges, realises he has his fishing knife, and decides to take them down?

Or did he go into the park that Afternoon, thinking he might seize an opportunity to grab someone, if the right circumstances appeared?

I suspect the latter. I suspect that the fantasy had been with him for some time. From what I’ve heard of a certain sort of murderer, they’ll spend a lot of time just hunting—I assume enjoying the hunt.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Have the police clarified whether Libby's dad was or was not the person who saw the person in Sketch #2? We know that the sketch was drawn a few days after the murders, and that it was an eyewitness sketch. Is it possible that this was the guy that Libby's dad saw coming off the bridge who he asked about seeing two girls, and the person said, "No, I did not"? It would make sense to me that they would have him do an eyewitness sketch of that person, but if the person did not match the video (maybe he discarded his hat and jacket), they did not believe that person was BG? Just throwing this out there.

If I'm not mistaken, I think the man Libby's dad saw was in his 70's.

 

[MsBetsy]

Does anyone know if the report is accurate that Libby's phone was pinging all over town that morning ? I'd forgotten about that until I went back to a previous thread. TIA

Yes, but I think those were just found to be normal pings. In other words, it wasn't as if the phone was travelling around after the murder. Imo

 

[Bellecent]

If he was patient enough to wait, I doubt he would have been so impatient as take the risk that was requiring the control of two victims. If he was comfortable with his ability to control two victims, I cant imagine this was his first experience.

I think it's more likely he knew they were going to be there.

Good points guys.

I agree that this was not his first. Imo he targets younger since.je is not that old bit I think this was his first for two. It puzzles me since this was daylight, semi-public place. Almost like he could take someone home. He had a short window to commit a crime let alone two. How steep is it off the bridge to walk down the hill? Is there a designated path? If it was steep he could not have a disability with the walking g on rough terrain down to this creek. I think the yeail just made him look like he had a disability. I think of the case in WI of the kidnapping. The soon to be convicted kidnapper and murder was young. I think BG could be you her than 30.

Prayers to the family,LE, and community for this to have closure soon.