Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #95

[margarita25]

Hi all,
I see Dr. Casey Jordan responded to a comment on Facebook and furthered her thoughts on the case. This is about an hour ago, I can quote it/post it if it isn't against any policies?

(I’ve flagged your post for a mod to review )

 

[DancingMuse]

So many times psychological issues are not taken seriously in the Church because "they" think everything can be "prayed away."

So true, So true TTF;
As a consequence, perhaps, too many Youth with serious mental health issues in ultra-religious families might not get the proper diagnosis and treatment they need.

Related to the Church-related discussion which came up today, another Websleuther brought up an interesting point about baptisms which occurred further up the Creek, northwest of Delphi. (I forgot which poster! So Sorry!)

I would be very interested to know which local churches, if any, conduct their Immersion Baptisms along the banks of the Creek in the general area where the girls were hiking. (???) Does anybody online tonight know?
City of Delphi - Church Directory

At the very least, the Pastor and his staff would have a "working knowledge" of the trail and a familiarity with all the access points to easily and safely get congregation members to the water's edge. Maybe BG was in one of these congregations as a child, and saw the Immersion Baptism as a demonstration of "power"?

( Sorry. I'm grabbing at straws here. )

It makes me wonder who else frequents this area for their outdoor activities: (??) Scouts? School groups?

It makes me wonder what was alluded to, in the HLN broadcast tonight: Is there a homeless population that lives on the trail?

Like other WebSleuthers, I believe the more known about the history of this trail, ......the better chances LE has of solving this horrific crime. The Monon High Bridge Trail figures so prominently in these murders.

 

[moonlessnight]

I have also been thinking that part of the motivation was to shame his family. But I think he won't hurt his family bc if he acts out like this to shame them, he is totally repressed and out of touch with his feelings and projecting onto other people. He can't confront them. And he wants to destroy them, but for them to suffer. killing them would prevent them from suffering.

I’m worried too that the killer may strike his own family, especially if he’s suicidal. I just have this feeling that part of his motive was to take revenge on his family, and bring shame to them. I think instead of addressing the the killer about his conscience (he has none) a statement should have been made to the killer’s family along the lines of “you know that he’s had troubles in the past, you thought you could help him but you never fathomed that he was capable of this. But now you know that he is and you can’t control him. By not coming forward you’re putting your own life and your other loved ones in danger.”

 

[spangled]

Ok here is the original, non super duper enhanced ISP via Fox 59

Blimey. Well like massguy (I think) said earlier it's been difficult to unsee the 40 year old with a cap.

However, looking at this and putting a finger either side of the face I see a slimmer face, hair brushed forward in a thick fringe with a hoodie behind but not over the head...

And now I can't unsee that version!!!

 

[fred&edna]

I honestly don’t know, someone said “from the podcast”.

Maybe it was a "theory" in the Best case/ Worst case podcast?

 

[sumzero]

I read here earlier that according to a podcast the man known as the original BG sketch had been arrested. Is there any more information on this, or has it been verified?

This claim has grown a life of its own. Where's the MSM link?

 

[K.jill]

Bump
Eta: sorry im trying to find the right podcast, this is not it.

Best Case Worst Case Delphi Murders Podcast


What does the location of this crime tell you about the offender?


Jim said the perpetrator is probably from around Delphi and spends a significant amount of time there. Whether he grew up there or landed there from somewhere else, we don’t know, but Jim said the offender knew that this was a place where little girls who fit his fantasy could be. Jim’s profile of the offender: He’s the kind of guy who fantasized a great deal about doing this. This was not impulsive. This is something that he had planned for. It didn’t go exactly as he planned, but he had thought about this, he was compulsive, he had played this fantasy out in his mind over and over. He took steps to carry it out: preparing a place to carry out the crime, figuring out how to threaten and control the victim, and preparing a place where he could be unseen until a victim arrived. He has some level of criminal sophistication that only comes from having committed precursive crimes. He might have exhibited peeping behavior, he might have broken into residences to go through underwear drawers, etc. He gets off on the excitement and thrill of being in a place you’re not supposed to be and looking at people’s intimate things. He almost certainly did these things, but we don’t know whether he was caught for these misdemeanor crimes. He seems to have some forensic sophistication because it doesn’t seem as though he left much forensic evidence behind.


Maureen thought it likely the perpetrator has been stalking the trail. She thought it was likely that in the 18,000 tips LE got in the first four months after the crime, some tips were probably from people who had seen this guy at some point in the past on the trail. She thought it was likely some people had called in tips on the perpetrator since LE is very sure that this guy has been living in the town or his family lives in the town or he works there or plays there.


Jim Clemente called this trail/bridge a “target-rich environment.” He likened it to the area in which Hannah Graham of UVA was abducted before being murdered. He talked about how Hannah was walking around, inebriated, and a guy who claimed to be a good Samaritan had started following her. While that guy was following her, Jesse Matthew (Hannah’s killer), showed up and put his arm around Hannah and walked off with her. Jim questions the motive of “the good Samaritan.” He thinks that guy might have wanted to sexually assault Hannah too. On video, we can see that “the good Samaritan” was lying in wait, stepping into the shadows as he followed Hannah, but Jim said that guy was following Hannah so slowly that the other guy was able to overtake her first. He gave that example to describe another target-rich environment. When there are vulnerable victims around, these guys are drawn to these target-rich environments. Jim said that in these environments, predators are looking for vulnerability, availability and desirability. Sometimes desirability may simply be a combination of vulnerability and availability. Abby and Libby were in a target-rich environment and happened to fall into this guy’s net. Jim also cited Israel Keyes as a predator who set traps and chose victims that were vulnerable and available; there was not a desirability factor in who he killed. Israel buried kill kits across the nation and set traps He killed the first vulnerable, available person or people to come by. Jim said there are offenders who get off on the kill itself.

 

[apples12]

I completely get what you're saying, and that's very likely true.

But, then again, there's this anecdotal bit I've just remembered:

As a young kid, there was an Associate Pastor at the church my family attended.
Dude was in his mid-30s, married, with kids. Seemingly upstanding man of the cloth.

He donned a disguise and committed over a dozen armed bank robberies in the area.
He was robbing the banks to pay for hookers.
No prior (known) history of criminal behavior.

That guy was hiding in plain sight. Up in the pulpit, even.

Granted, it's not a perfect parallel as this guy didn't kill anyone like BG did.
But they may profile similarly. Sexual element, high risk behaviors, possible religious connections.

Just some food for thought.

JMO.

Yup. Outside the box. One for the books.

 

[Inthedetails]

I agree that constellation does fit the typical pattern.

I just feel this case is going to be an exception. One for the books. Considering his young age, it is possible that his "priors" had to do with non-criminal nevertheless deviant behaviors in interpersonal relating and school behavior. We do not know if this crime was sexual in nature, hence I for one cannot leap to the molestation/rape/panty thief/ burglary etc. idea completely. Aspects of this case to me suggest psychological deterioration, deviant fantasies such as revenge or need to establish omnipotent power would be two underlying such fantasies. Middle school girls probably are the subject of these fantasies. It could be sexualized. Not sure. I sense this is not going to fit the typical pattern. JMOO

Carter said people would be shocked to know what this person "hiding in plain sight" has done.

IMO, the regular patterns for this type of perp aren't going to work. He's different, and one of those differences is, imo, that he hasn't committed previous crimes and escalated to this.

I think he started big with the double murder, and there will be few big clues in this past, though perhaps there were subtler clues that we will recognize later, once we know who it is.

jmo

 

[apples12]

I have also been thinking that part of the motivation was to shame his family. But I think he won't hurt his family bc if he acts out like this to shame them, he is totally repressed and out of touch with his feelings and projecting onto other people. He can't confront them. And he wants to destroy them, but for them to suffer. killing them would prevent them from suffering.

Killing them may both defend against, yet reveal, his most destructive revenge fantasies.

 

[margarita25]

I read a post within the last hour that i can not find now. The poster pointed out that the new sketch bg has sanpaku eyes.
I had not noticed this before and find it interesting. Did the sketch artist draw the eyes this way because the witness described seeing 3whites? If so the witness had to be close. Or are they just eyes the witness said look similar without realizing sanpaku is not super common?

I had to quickly google that. Interesting

thanks for noticing that. I always wonder about that with criminals - they almost all seem to have it.

(I learned this term here as well a few years ago on WS—I noticed that I have these (sanpaku eyes) )

 

[margarita25]

Bringing forward mod post re: podcasts:

Rsbm
*Before discussing podcasts, etc please check with a moderator, an admin or Tricia to see if it is approved to be posted here.

 

[Tealgrove]

I found the HLN Special today quite good. Based on what I heard today from experts, we here at Websleuths are right on track. I think LE is very close. It's just a matter of time. Today Will Be The Day is coming.

MOO

 

[ParadoxyOddity]

In regards to the HLN... these were posted on another forum, which gives a good in depth view of the report.

“The Delphi Murders: Special Report - Susan Hendricks anchors a new report about the latest developments in the Delphi murders case.”

Things that stood out to me or are worth mentioning (paraphrased):

-Host says they told her they do have DNA.

-Former FBI Specialist says LE likely know the vehicle, they didn’t want to be bombarded with tips.

-Regarding the sketch, there was a lot of emphasis on the chin: lower lip to chin is disproportionate, it’s a strong, pronounced jaw that juts out. One panelist suggested an underbite.

-Criminologist, Casey Jordan, says it was brazen calling BG a coward at the press conference—this could be interpreted by BG as a challenge. She continues that they’re either close in their investigation or believe that he’s incredibly contained by public scrutiny that he won’t act out again.

-When Doug Carter mentions the book after “The Shack,” Casey Jordan believes he’s referring to the Bible. Briefly explores that maybe there’s something about him that is deemed wrong by his religion, giving the example of his sexuality, which may have something to do with why he killed. She also mentions that they’re playing on his religion by pleading with him to do the right thing—they’re going to get you, so just do the right thing.

-They discuss if this was a crime of opportunity. FBI Special Agent, Maureen O’Conell, says it’s a target-rich area. Casey Jordan says he might not be a serial killer, but all killers always have a fantasy and you don’t know when it’ll surface. Maybe his fantasy only involved one girl, but this was an opportunity.

-Hosts asked if the panel if they believe LE is close: -Certified Death Investigator is confident. -Criminologist says yes, but that if it’s not solved in the coming weeks, the press conference could’ve been a Hail Mary. -Defense Attorney believes they’re close and that the pressure is on—his time is up. -FBI Special Agents says he’s suffering and freaking out right now; believes they’ll solve the case soon; forensic genealogy is likely being utilized.

 

[sumzero]

Carter said people would be shocked to know what this person "hiding in plain sight" has done.

IMO, the regular patterns for this type of perp aren't going to work. He's different, and one of those differences is, imo, that he hasn't committed previous crimes and escalated to this.

I think he started big with the double murder, and there will be few big clues in this past, though perhaps there were subtler clues that we will recognize later, once we know who it is.

jmo

When did Carter say that? It's not in the transcript of the recent news conference. Is this from an earlier interview?

 

[teeandcee]

K. Jill, fascinating! Thanks for bumping it. I’m sure the whole websleuths community wasn’t buying that Good Samaritan story (the Hannah Graham case, not Delphi).

I’m assuming predators recognize each other as a fellow predator. I’m very intrigued by the theory Old Sketch Guy was a SO who was arrested and spilled some info from being on the bridge hunting that day. Surely he and BG caught on to each other.

 

[elmomom]

Maybe it was a "theory" in the Best case/ Worst case podcast?

More than just a theory, and yes, this was the podcast. The first time it was mentioned it was phrased as a theory “maybe they arrested someone for another crime that was identified as the same guy in the sketch and he was then ruled out”, but it was repeated at least twice more I believe, and stated more as fact than as theory.

 

[castilloisno1]

(I learned this term here as well a few years ago on WS—I noticed that I have these (sanpaku eyes) )

#687 post is where this was first mentioned...I think someone was looking for it...I hadn't heard of it before this

 

[carbuff]

Interesting to me they said again how they were BRUTALLY murdered...I’m so thankful we haven’t had to hear all the details personally.

I wouldn't think it necessarily means anything. It's journalistic cliche to say it was a brutal murder, just like it's always a fiery accident if the car catches fire.

 

[neesaki]

agree. Maybe he had stints in psych hospitals for his deviant behavior instead of arrests. If he's young this is more likely, as kids are treated more as having mental health or environmental issues than being criminal. There may be people in the community who expected him to do something like this when he was younger.

Good point, very probably had some stints in psych hospitals.