Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #97

[MsBetsy]

In the first week there was a woman who posted about stopping on Hwy 25 to see if a man needed help. I don't remember if she was going to offer him a ride or just to call someone for him. She was really shook up and wondered if she should call the tip line. We were horrified, that she would stop for a stranger on the hwy! And we told her don't call, get in the car and go there now. She thought he actually touched the roof of her car although it had rained. I have wondered if she was legit, and if she was this witness!

Maybe that's why they were asking for information about a hitchhiker. Jmo

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

Good idea. Does anyone know if Carroll Co Sheriff Deputies had dashcams in early 2017?

ISP fatal shooting: No dash cam, body cam video of trooper’s confrontation with Linden man

According to this msm article, not all ISP cars had it more recently? Or Bodycams.

 

[MistyWaters]

Sketches are always ballpark

As in complete strangers can’t match them up with strangers on the internet like they are comparing Two photos.

A sketch is a sketch

Yes and if a witness was expected to guarantee the 100% accuracy of their memory, as illustrated in a sketch, nobody would ever agree to help LE.

A police sketch is a tool that’s hoped is helpful in an investigation, only as accurate as the witness’s ability to recollect.

I hope neither the witness nor the officer who drew the sketch are following SM, noticing all the criticism, critiquing and searching by amateur armchair detectives who want to believe it’s an exact likeness. Aside from protecting the integrity of an investigation and safety, I can sure understand why the witness would not want to be publicly known considering the SM fiasco this sketch has created.

 

[MsBetsy]

My thoughts on theory that BG perhaps asked the girls for help with something doesn't seem likely, given his tone when he said 'Guys....Down the hill". You wouldn't necessarily use a commanding type tone for anyone willing to help. jmo

First post on WS by the way...love everyone's thoughts here

Hi, oh my cats, and welcome!
I think you are right. All he needed was some kind of weapon and I believe they would have been compliant.
He may have said, "Don't make a sound, just do as I tell you and you won't get hurt."
I think they would have been terrified and would have done what he told them to do. Jmo

 

[ocgrad]

Hmmm...I’d be interested in seeing that post if it can be found in this haystack.

Yes me too. I will try to search for that!

 

[MOMDET]

I also thought that this may be a message to the killer, as in "We know you where you were parked, you are in our cross hairs!"

 

[Skigh]

Would a voice expert be able to match up the BG voice with any online examples of a suspect's voice?

 

[Inthedetails]

Would a voice expert be able to match up the BG voice with any online examples of a suspect's voice?

I'm sure LE would use a resource like a voice expert. (And so would any defense team.)

jmo

 

[ocgrad]

If you look at the map I made, you can see the creek is the closest possible escape route. They can't re-cross the bridge and all the other routes of escape (indicated by red lines) are terrible choices and require running much further and, even so, not necessarily promising help of any kind. On the other hand... a ride to pick them us is going to arrive soon across the creek... safety is across the creek, imo.

A lot of us assume BG grabbed them or otherwise took control of them at the end of the bridge and "down the hill" means the hill at the end of the bridge. We have no way of knowing that to be fact. Some of us say we see a gun in BG's right pocket. Maybe the girls saw the same thing that day and didn't wait for him to get to the end of the bridge at all.

They both knew that park... I've seen a photo of Abby fishing along the creek. I've read in MSM that they both loved to go to that park. Wouldn't they know the best ways to go to get to safety? They might know the creek was shallow at that point. I bet they did, imo. The creek is approximately 0.06 mile from the creek... probably a bit more as it's hard to measure using Google Earth due to changes in elevation.

Maybe they took off running (as soon as the video Libby made was done) and crossed the creek and made it some ways up the hill just beyond where their bodies were found... with BG, all the while, running behind them. He may have caught up with them finally and said those very same words... "Guys. Down the hill." If this is true and if they did go back down that hill... that would be right where they were found in the end. Clothing could have been thrown into the river after they were deceased.

Conversely, had they made it to the top of that hill, they would have come to the cemetery and Route 300N and maybe they were hoping people would be there. What's more... down that road to the left would bring them right to the spot where their ride would be (or would soon be waiting for them) at the main entrance of the park.

It's another theory and one I've been wondering about for a long time. I think Abby and Libby thought they knew that park as well as anyone else. If you really study the maps and maps history you will see that there is only one possible good choice of where to run. Across the creek and up the hill to the cemetery, imo... all the while hoping people might be walking along the trail(s) over in that area across the creek, as well.

My entire comment is my opinion.

I agree. I think it is much more likely that they ran across than him holding and forcing them across. They knew the area, Abby lives down the very road that becomes a private drive going under the bridge. The photo of her fishing was not there at the creek but there is a good chance she has fished there as well since she lived so close. There is also a photo of the 2 of them posing or dancing on 300N very near there. All he had to do was catch one of them trying to scramble up the bank or on up that hill and he would have them both. But it is strange that no one else heard or saw anything.

 

[Inthedetails]

I agree. I think it is much more likely that they ran across than him holding and forcing them across. They knew the area, Abby lives down the very road that becomes a private drive going under the bridge. The photo of her fishing was not there at the creek but there is a good chance she has fished there as well since she lived so close. There is also a photo of the 2 of them posing or dancing on 300N very near there. All he had to do was catch one of them trying to scramble up the bank or on up that hill and he would have them both. But it is strange that no one else heard or saw anything.

Hmm....I wonder if she and Libby were trying to run to her home? Sad to think about that.

jmo

 

[ocgrad]

Hmm....I wonder if she and Libby were trying to run to her home? Sad to think about that.

jmo

If they were running to Abby's home they would have gone south away from the creek.
In addition if you were able to follow the old tracks on down to 200N they would be at another of Libbys' grandparents.

 

[marisab67]

But how many of those males would have used the car in question?
This seems to tell us they know who the perp is. They know he
used the (jointly owned) car on the 13th. They know he was home
from school or not in school at that time. He may be back in school now and away from home so that's why LE haven't talked to him.
BUT they can't reliably place him at the scene at time of murders
and can't reliably connect him to murders.
So PLEASE PUBLIC, We need your help.

That’s why I think they know which family but they don’t have it sorted out which member. Even if it’s only 2 or 3 people. That combined with finding out the driver of the car seen would be a much stronger case if the DNA is only partial.

 

[neesaki]

In the first week there was a woman who posted about stopping on Hwy 25 to see if a man needed help. I don't remember if she was going to offer him a ride or just to call someone for him. She was really shook up and wondered if she should call the tip line. We were horrified, that she would stop for a stranger on the hwy! And we told her don't call, get in the car and go there now. She thought he actually touched the roof of her car although it had rained. I have wondered if she was legit, and if she was this witness!

Wait a second, are you saying this woman posted here while she was stopped asking this man if he needed help ? Posters here were communicating with her during this time? I've never heard this before, could you elaborate or clarify ? TIA

 

[Wells]

Is there a map that includes all of the following: the entire length of the bridge, the CPS building, the area where Libby's dad parked, the cemetery and the outline of RL's property? If so, could some please link me to it?

 

[Gumbeaux]

That’s why I think they know which family but they don’t have it sorted out which member. Even if it’s only 2 or 3 people. That combined with finding out the driver of the car seen would be a much stronger case if the DNA is only partial.

Have to wonder if video exists of the car and driver outside of the 12-5 timeframe. Perhaps there are local businesses along the route with cameras that may have captured something. I’m guessing LE is all over this possibility!

 

[Inthedetails]

If they were running to Abby's home they would have gone south away from the creek.
In addition if you were able to follow the old tracks on down to 200N they would be at another of Libbys' grandparents.

If being chased, you might not to get to pick your preferred route home.

I don't know if that is the case, but it is something to consider. It's not as if the girls were in unfamiliar territory. They might have made a run for it at some point but he prevented it.

jmo

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Is there a map that includes all of the following: the entire length of the bridge, the CPS building, the area where Libby's dad parked, the cemetery and the outline of RL's property? If so, could some please link me to it?

In thread #93 @taylorss posted this:

"Saw link to this user-friendly map of the bridge & surrounding area - I think the “former social services building” on the upper right was the location of the parked / abandoned car mentioned at the press conf. I appreciate a kiddie map like this so thought I’d post - HTH someone else too"

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/newsbug.info/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/d/eb/deb60c4e-acf9-11e5-9ce2-bbc779333205/568082db42bb4.image.jpg?resize=1200,1553

 

[Snoop Sister]

I understand it was not abandoned. That is why I put it in quotations. That is what he initially said in the PC. That is all I was getting at there.

Sorry, I didn’t mean this to you. Several people were talking about the “abandoned vehicle” and it has been clarified many times that it is the building referred to as abandoned. Lol I quoted the wrong person. Sorry again.

 

[elmomom]

“In vague terms, Bryant told the Star the image was based on the description of a man by a witness who reported seeing something they felt needed to be reported. The sketch is a "ballpark estimation of what the person looks like."”

RSBM, I just needed a copy of that quote tyvm!

I think the “something they felt that needed to be reported” was that they had seen a car and it’s driver parked at the abandoned building. This is why the sketch and the car both came up in the same time of the investigation. And I think some new evidence has led LE to realize that this siting was more important than they originally believed.

 

[marisab67]

Have to wonder if video exists of the car and driver outside of the 12-5 timeframe. Perhaps there are local businesses along the route with cameras that may have captured something. I’m guessing LE is all over this possibility!

Good thought! IIRC this is how they found Molly Tibbet’s killer.